Norman - Brighton UK - Controler X2445B

[Norman M6NBP]

Hi All

My name is Norman and I live in Brighton in the UK.

I just got this a few weeks ago MobilityPlus+ Ultra-Light Instant Folding Electric Wheelchair | 24kg, 4mph
https://mobilitypluswheelchairs.co.uk/collections/electric-wheelchairs/products/mobilityplus-ultra-lightweight-instant-folding-electric-wheelchair

I have had to return it one time already to get it reprogrammed.
Sorry to say, it needs more changes again to help the reverse.

But I do not want to keep returning it every time I want small changes made.

Tried today to use the Mobility Programmer and sorry to say it does not work with this model.

After a few searches, I found a smiler unit by another manufacture https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004207683422.html?
Mine is the same unit and has the same model number X2445B-QX01. But mine is made by Yanteon
Yet when you go to the Yanteon website, they do not even list this model http://en.yanteon.com/proclass.aspx

I have emailed Yanteon and L-faster to see if they can help with what software it uses.

Also, I have emailed cw-industrialgroup to see if I could buy one from them and just up grade it.

I do like the wheelchair, but the controller is not as good as my old wheelchair.

If anyone can help on how to program this Yanteon X2445B unit, I would welcome your feedback.

Many thanks

Norman

[Burgerman]

I am not aware of any programmer that we can get hold of that could program it. It may not even be the programming but the whole way that the phone book full of computer code was written. You may be a little stuck. This is a an issue with these cheap chinese chairs.

[Norman M6NBP]

This is why, I would also like to know if I can change the joystick controller, with a much better make.

Any recommendations will be welcome

[Burgerman]

If the motors are simple DC permanant magnet then yes. But it will not be cheap unless you use used parts.

https://www.cw-industrialgroup.com/Prod ... nly-System

[martin007]

Welcome Norman M6NBP!
R-NET is your friend.

[martin007]

If the motors are simple DC permanant magnet then yes.

Are there powerchairs with AC motors?

[Burgerman]

Yes. All the chinese brushless ones.

[martin007]

AC engines fed with CC batteries?
Why is such nonsense?

[Burgerman]

Click https://howtomechatronics.com/wp-conten ... C-Work.jpg

[Burgerman]

Each set of coils pulls, and pushes each of the magnets. Theres 3 sets of coils. 3 wires. 120 degrees seperated.

[martin007]

I assume they use some kind of power inverter...
Are all brushless motors (in a powerchairs) AC?
Does R-NET only work with CC?

[Burgerman]

AC engines fed with CC batteries?
Why is such nonsense?

Because it increases power density, as well as efficiency. So this is a 700 watt motor.

[martin007]

But do you have to transform DC into AC.

[Norman M6NBP]

This is what is on the wheelchair

[Burgerman]

That doesent help.

[Burgerman]

But do you have to transform DC into AC.

You do anyway sort of... Its not ac as such but its pulsewidth on 2 wires. Which are reverse pulsewidth when you go backwards.

[martin007]

One question, Burgerman.
You have brushless motors (AC) and use R-NET.
How do you do it?

[Burgerman]

I dont have brushless motors on wheelchairs.

[Norman M6NBP]

I just had a reply from the manufacture

Dear Norman,
The controller unit needs to be adjusted by our self developed programmer, and it is USD$90/piece FOB shanghai, it applies to all models of our company.
We could send one piece to you on receipt of your address. I will enquiry the carriers and advise you the express fee afterwards.

B.rgds/wendy

I will hang fire until my others emails I sent yesterday have been replied to.

At £72 plus shipping, I might as well get it


.

[Burgerman]

It may be very restricted in what its capable of. When you buy a control system, the hardware is the easy and relatively cheap bit. The software and firmware is where all the skill, driving capability, and smoothness and control happens. And this takes time and money to develop over years of updates. Big companies like PGDT have been refining this for good drivability and good control with extremely accurate programability for at least 30 years. Phone books full of code running on your controller. So dont count on this fixing your issues. Although it may improve things a bit.

[Norman M6NBP]

All I can do is try.

I just want the reverse to have a bit more grunt when on an incline.
Might also give it more when going forward and need to turn left or right. They did fix that for me by returning the wheelchair to them. But still room for improvement.

Want to see what https://www.cw-industrialgroup.com say to the email I sent them, as it might be still an option to swap out the entire system.

I have looked around again at all Electric wheelchairs on the market and this one still meets my needs for now.
It is very lightweight and ideal for when I need to take a taxi. Frame Weight - 24kg and Battery weight - 2kg each (removable)
Small enough to go into shops when required out shopping.
24v 13ah batteries and only £95 if I need to buy more. (Most others I have looked at are 10ah or lower and very expensive.)

This is my daily use scotter when out and about. Replaced my car. https://www.mobilitypower.co.uk/product/zt4/
For getting around Brighton, it is ideal and so far I love it as faster than driving in the city.

.

[woodygb]

This is why, I would also like to know if I can change the joystick controller, with a much better make.

Any recommendations will be welcome

Your joystick pod is described as a

X2445 Brush Electric Wheelchair Controller

http://en.yanteon.com/products/show-308.aspx

Curtiss Wrights VSi would be a suitable replacement BUT it would require adapting the wiring of the VSi to your brakes and motors.

[Norman M6NBP]

Mine and that one are both made by www.wuyang-china.com


.

[steves1977uk]

The problem with those light foldable powerchairs is that they lack the Amps from the controller and batteries. A proper powerchair and control system (120A R-net, 4-pole motors, GRP24 batteries) can climb ramps/hills easier than a chair with weedy motors.

Question, why don't you have a properly built powerchair? A cheap WAV would be a better solution.

Steve

[Norman M6NBP]

Like I said, this one meets my needs for now.
It gets up the hills around Brighton, where I would want to go into shops.
Also light to take in taxis, cars etc when folded down.
It gets around the local hospital that is 5 mins from where I live.
It can also go on buses if I ever wanted to.

This is my daily user when out and about https://www.mobilitypower.co.uk/product/zt4/

If I get 3 to 5 years out of the both of them, I will be doing well.
At that stage, I will look at what best meets my needs again.

If I want to go to ASDA, I take the large scooter, as I can use it in the store.
If I want to go to Primark, I take the wheelchair.

I am lucky that my flat has a long hall and I can have both in the flat.

It is just a pain in the ass to keep returning it to have the controller tweaked.
If I can buy the programmer from http://www.wuyang-china.com/ for around £80 then I can just do it myself.
It gives me the option to have a Summer and Winter settings to meet the pavement conditions when out on it.

Any way, I am still waiting on replies to a few emails, before I make any destinations.


.

[Burgerman]

Heres just ONE of the issues.

You want it to have torque, so it can move easily, with small stick movements or when turning lefy/right or reverse which is the same thing (its just speed and therefore voltage restricted in programming by setting reverse speed or turn speed instead which reduces current and therefore torque).

In a well developed bit of software theres a setting which is quite sensitve to configre that fixes that completely. That setting depends on motor impedance called motor load compensation and is set in mOhms. It ramps up the current in amps as a positive feedback system at what would normally be a low current situation automatically behind the scenes. And its essential for proper control. This allows the chair to ave full torque, as if you are at max throttle, at maybe just 10% of stick travel. So the chair turns and reverses (and turns in place) reliably at your full 45A (which isnt really enough) regardless of speed programming in reverse or in turn or at small stick movements. Its quite likely that this will not even exist on cheap chinese controllers. And even if it does, you will not be able to increase this without a more advanced programmer than they are selling you. Those are more advanced settings that usally need OEM level programming tools. So as I said, things are not so simple as you think. You are in a position where you may not be able to fix the problem, even after throwing another 70 plus carriage at it.

[Norman M6NBP]

Ok
What lightweight folding wheelchair would you recommend?

.

[Burgerman]

I dont know. I dont use them because they all have similar issues. (comfort, control, stability, range etc.) I cant walk at all and so the thing needs to be a lot better than a folding chair for me. Maybe the same as you have but one fitted with PGDT controls and an OEM level programmer.

I would be extremely wary of the cheap chinese alteratives for the exact reasons that are discussed above.

[Burgerman]

You are not alone with this problem. Even 10k wheelchairs from reputable brands all drive like a drunken sailor when they arrive. Every one. Evan your old chair. And even after the "dealer" has spent hours trying to fix it they are little better. Some just a bit better than others.

However if you have a better OEM level programmer, and a decent controller this can be fixed to the point where it drives and can be controlled in totally linear intuitive fashion. By setting a few essential things correctly to remove all turn acceleration and deceleration at all speeds, and they setting turn rates at a lower controllable rate. And fine tuning the motor load compensation.

[Norman M6NBP]

Well, if they will sell to an end user this https://www.cw-industrialgroup.com/Products/Mobility-Vehicle-Solutions/newVSI it is still an option.

I phoned them the other day, but no one answered.
I also emailed them and yet no reply.

Likewise, I am still waiting on the company that sold it to me on a fix.
But sending the entire scooter back each time is a pain in the ass. Would be better if I could just post them the controller.

Need be, I will just say take it back and refund me as I have had issues with that controller.
The joys of buying on a credit card, I should be 100% protected.

Even looking at these two models
https://lith-tech.com/shop/lith-tech-multi-chair-1/
and
https://lith-tech.com/shop/lith-tech-compact-recliner/

1. Only 6ah batteries (Mine is 13ah) (I am never taking it on an Aeroplane)
2. 180w or 200w motors (Mine 250w)
3. £250 per new battery (Mine £95)
4. I do not like them lol
5. Yes, controls should be programmable.
6. I like that mine has a wider seat, 63cm Width. (600mm or 570mm on the Lith-tech)

But I have learned a lot from the post above for when I go to get a replacement down the line.

I am happy to get it moded if required to make it better.

.