intro to buying a w/chair

[bobbit]

Hello all, I'm starting the journey to buying my first w/chair, and its not that much fun! Is there anywhere i can get some basic info without being sold something (at a special discount if I buy it right now). I want to find the most reliable maker and a little bit about tech. Choices. Anyone who can point me in the right direction will go on my Christmas card list! Cheers B

[Burgerman]

Read most of this site.

That's all you will need to know.

Start here http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/powerchair-stuff.htm

What are you looking for in detail?

[Lord Chatterley]

Do not buy a new expensive chair.
Buy a second-hand chair from ebay to become accustomed to moving around under power and then you will have some PERSONAL experience of your own unique needs and capabilities!

Some people, for example, cannot use joysticks, others can use joysticks but cannot reach or press the buttons...it varies.

LC

[bobbit]

Many thanks for the good advice, if I buy a chair on eBay what am I looking for? I have ms and can only use my left hand properly, can the controls be moved from one side to the other for example, and how good are the batteries that are used(they don't seem to be lithium) and is the range quoted accurate? As I said I am a complete novice at this!
B

[LROBBINS]

You should figure that the batteries in a used chair are of no use at all and will have to be replaced. Lead acid batteries that are not regularly and completely charged go bad, as do batteries that are drained too much. There is a lot of good information here and on the parent WheelchairDriver.com pages about battery types and battery care. Two basic rules are (1) cheap batteries cost far more in the end than quality ones, (2) charge often and fully. There are as yet no commercially available, plug-and-play, lithium battery setups that are worth anything at all. You can, as John Williamson (the owner of this site) and a few others have, build a lithium pack that will work well, BUT you will not be able to use a plug-in-and-go charger, you must absolutely avoid what are sold as Battery Management Systems, and you will have to learn a lot about their care and feeding.

Range figures are pretty meaningless. You will not get anything like the quoted range unless your are light, you travel only on level smooth surfaces, you turn as little as possible. Straight line speed has very little effect on range, but anything that increases motor load does.

Most or all rehab-level chairs do allow moving the hand control to one side or the other, a few even allow center mounting. I don't know about basic level chairs, but I'd imagine that figuring out how to swap sides wouldn't be too difficult even if there's no provision for that built in. For name brand chairs, once you see a listing you can search up the manufacturers web site and can usually find user and technical manuals, and often pictorial diagrams.

A wheelchair is a very personal and important device. It has to fit you and your uses and deserves at least as much attention and thinking, really much more attention and thinking, as goes into choosing an automobile and far more than for choosing living room furniture. Too often, it seems to me, that people spend less thinking power on choosing a wheelchair than they spend on choosing a pair of pants. Of course, the first time out you are quite likely to get something that's not a terribly good fit, but that's the advantage of buying a used chair; they generally go for prices far, far, far below new retail. (There's another thread on this forum right now in which people are discussing why that happens.) If the first one doesn't work out, you can re-sell it and buy something different. If you go to a dealer, or most rehab services, and just take what they say will fit you to a tee, it likely won't and you (or your insurer or health service) will be out a lot of money and feel stuck. Few participants here have anything good to say about the "experts".

BTW, there are participants here from many countries on several continents. Given that different chair lines are sold in different places, you might get better aimed suggestions if you go to your user profile and enter your location - city and country. You might even be one of the lucky few who lives in a town where there's a wheelchair service worth something, but no one can point you toward them if they don't know where you are.

Ciao,
Lenny

[WDMSetc]

Many thanks for the good advice, if I buy a chair on eBay what am I looking for? I have ms and can only use my left hand properly, can the controls be moved from one side to the other for example, and how good are the batteries that are used(they don't seem to be lithium) and is the range quoted accurate? As I said I am a complete novice at this!
B

[Disclaimer: I don't use a chair so my comments are solely "from observation"]

You have to decide how much a part of your life the chair will likely be -- now and in the future.

Think about your physical size. You don't want to be shoe-horned into a chair that is too small for your frame; nor swimming in one that is oversized! Do you need any special support for head, arms, legs, etc.?

Are you comfortable sitting in a *single* chair for the periods of time you are likely to be in the powerchair? Or, do you need to adjust your position within the chair, often? You may want/need a chair with additional "controls" to manipulate your seated position (recline, upright, etc.)

Will you rely on it to get around your home? Or, just "while out"? Think about what your house looks like and how it may accommodate -- or hinder! -- the use of various styles of chairs. Chances are, your house wasn't built with the requirements for a chair in mind!

If you expect to regularly transport the chair ("doctor's appointment"), what sort of vehicle do you plan on using to perform that task? Will you be using an "outboard" lift? A van with internal power lift? Or, perhaps, a "community provided" service (like a mini bus designed to accommodate chairs)?

Look at your current -- and likely future -- physical condition. Is it relatively stable? Or, likely to change "soon" (whatever THAT means!). E.g., is your MS progressive or relapsing? How frequent are your attacks? etc. (Note that I am not asking you to answer here, publicly; rather, just suggesting something that you should consider in choosing what your needs are LIKELY to be in whatever timeframe makes sense for your decision process). Left/right handed controls are usually easily accommodated -- just slide the controller out of the current armrest and move it to the *other*. There are also other types of controls that can be used in the absence of fine hand control (mouth stick, head switch, etc.). But, fitting them to any particular make/model of chair may require some research.

Depending on your location (country, city, etc.), you may find organizations that have chairs for temporary loan. You might consider requesting something like this just to get a feel for what you do and don't like about *a* chair -- to help you better formulate your own preferences. These organizations tend to support *their* equipment (e.g., chairs) and don't have a financial interest in "making a sale" -- so, you are likely to get less biased information. You could be more comfortable asking their staff (usually volunteers) which chairs they have the most problems and/or complaints about.

Here (USA), many "mobility vendors" will be happy to set you up with a "trial". Of course, they assume you'll just try THEIR chair and the trial will result in a sale. Read anything you sign to be sure you're not forfeiting your decision!

I've commented (elsewhere) on how frequently chairs are seemingly scrapped -- in working order (with the notable exception of spent batteries). Asking around, you might find something to use as a "starter" before committing to an actual purchase (especially if your insurance company is involved in that eventual purchase -- chances are they won't be happy about a *second* purchase if you decide you don't like the first one they purchased on your behalf!)

[Note, batteries are ~$200 for a pair -- depending, of course, on the size required for the chair and how extravagant you want to be. If you are just "experimenting" with a chair to get an idea what you like and dislike -- i.e., you aren't planning on keeping the chair "long term" -- then you probably don't want to invest heavily in batteries. THE BATTERIES FOR ONE CHAIR WILL PROBABLY NOT PHYSICALLY FIT IN ANOTHER CHAIR! So, don't think you can "pull" those nice new batteries that you purchased and move them into your next chair -- unless you planned for this explicitly!]

Obtaining a chair *without* some plan for supporting it (maintenance) is probably not wise. Who are you going to call WHEN the chair doesn't work? Do you have the skills (physical and mental) to perform these sorts of activities? Or, will you have to rely on someone else (agency, vendor, etc.)? The type of support you get from a mobility vendor for a chair that you bought second-hand might be suspect -- is he telling you that the motors need to be replaced because he's trying to drum up some business for himself -- repair or new sale? How likely would he be to make a similar diagnosis if he had sold you the chair *new* -- and, that repair was covered under warranty? (How likely would you be to buy ANOTHER chair from him if he had sold you a chair that needed such drastic repairs??)

Good luck with your chair decision -- and your fight against the MS!

[bobbit]

Once again many thanks for the useful and sensible information and advice, it seems there's more to this purchase than colour and mpg. I am fortunate in not being in a
great hurry to sort this all out.
Thanks all
B
PS how I spelt co!our should give a bit of a clue to my location!

[Burgerman]

Note, batteries are ~$200 for a pair -- depending, of course, on the size required for the chair and how extravagant you want to be.

If you get a set of batteries for that price you may as well save the bother of actually fitting them and throw them straight in the bin.

There are only two or three deep cycle batteries worth fitting to a chair.

MK gel, or Sonnenschein A500, if you want long life and don't value torque or fast charge times.

Or Odyssey (and clone/rebranded) batteries. For torque, better faster charging, and performance.

All the rest are a waste of cash.

[rustyjames]

I just bought a pair of group 24 MK's and they were $200.00 EACH and that was a very good price.

[Burgerman]

Those are about 180 pounds each here, or 550 dollars a set.

There are hundreds of cheap AGMs about, all are unsuitable and will have crap performance and a short life.

[bobbit]

Hello all, I have bought a second hand quickie f55s and I have a problem with the controller. I need to re programme the joy stick to slow the chair when it is going up ramps into the car. The controller has a socket marked programme on it. It is a round 9 pin that allows a computer to talk to it, the problem I have is finding the male plug to fit it . can any one tell me is it a standard fitting and if so does it have a name or number and can it be bought anywhere? Any advice would be really welcome. This is my first wheelchair and I am finding the learning curve very steep! Many thanks

[Burgerman]

What TYPE of controller is it?