Burgerman - Site Owner

[Burgerman]

Well granny, you posted in the wrong place!

Not that anyone is bothered...

[Malibu]

Awesome info. This is what I was looking for. A gear head that's needs a cool chair.
I have progressive MS and will likely be in a power chair in the next year or so. Will be following along.

[Quirisrer]

Hi John,
I'm Alan, a 69 year old next week, disabled pensioner. I live near Fakenham in rural Norfolk. I have an Active8 made in Israel by Tzora and marketed here in the UK by Aquasoothe Ltd. It is a three wheeled class 3 scooter which is about 8 years old. I bought this recently for several reasons: It had to be road legal as there are no pavements where I live and I must travel the 3 miles to the nearest village with a shop, doctor & pub, It has large 12" wheels to cope with the poor state of the local roads, it is designed to fold and split into two parts to fit into the boot of my car, as a retired engineer I appreciated it's design features and at £150 it was the right price. The advertised top speed is 7mph however this is only achieved rarely down hill and with a folloeing wind! I came across your website by searching to see if it was possible to speed it up slightly. Here is a picture & details of it at http://www.activelite.com/_xc/et_active8.htm
I totally agree with your argument for greater speed for safety reasons.
Now to get down to the "nitty gritty" - Is there any way that we can lobby the manufacturers and the "Powers that be" to review the 8mph global limit?
I know that there are some doddery old farts who are a danger even at 4mph but it isn't fair that the rest of us should have to suffer because of them. Maybe a driving test or assessment as to one's ability to control a faster machine safely would ensure that only capable scooter drivers were allowed onto the roads.
What do you think?
Thanks
Alan

[Burgerman]

Well its already the case that you can drive a scooter up to the speed limit if you are using a type aproved scooter / quad bike / buggy etc with licence, insurance etc.

The 4mph on footpath and up to 8 anywhere else applies to non licenced or insured vehicles. Ones that can go on footpaths and in public areas.

Seems to me that the best solution is to build something that can go faster, and only use it with some common sense descretely and dont take the piss. Nobody will know or care as long as you use some sense and go faster when sensible and safe. Mixing it on roads with fast cars needs some ability to get out of the way fast at times... And when theres noone about and you want to save some time...

That scooter though cant really go faster than 6 or 7 mph without much better batteries. If you were to say double the gear ratio it would go twice as fast but take double the battery amps even at slow speeds. So you would need batteries and motors, loom, controller that were double the size to keep the same range. In fact 3x the size because of the peukert effect.

Its why my 15mph powerchair uses lithium batteries with 45 volts and 3x the stored usable energy.

[hollyswheels]

Hello John,
I just sent an email to your private address, sorry to annoy you with that. I'll introduce myself here. I'm 54 years old, 5' tall, weigh about 105 lbs. (I haven't been weighed since 1996) I was a professional jockey until I went down in a spill in 1996 and became a T6 para ( I totally get, the 'need for speed'). I'm now a very active sheep rancher and farmer. I live in Northern Alberta Canada and deal with wicked winters, snow and -35 to 45 celcius often. You are amazing. I wish I was in the UK so I could get you to help me revamp my wheelchair. I currently have a quickie xplore mid-wheel drive wheelchair which is the best I've had yet. I do pound the heck out of it and it's held up for about 4 years so far. I have workers compensation coverage so they replace my chairs as needed but it's frightening to have a chair go down and then have to wait to get a new one, so I'm always searching for the 'dream chair.'
I see that you do not market the chair, I'm so sorry. I have no engineering or fabricating skills so re-doing a chair is not an option for me but I will continue to enjoy your site and your posts, I've already learned that my next chair should be a rear-wheel drive. The guys at the wheelchair store do not have a clue when I ask them what the best choice for me would be. Thank you so much for maintaining this site.
Holly Crichton.

[Burgerman]

You are light, an X5 or V6 chair would likely suit your needs. But still only 7mph.

[Malkav Kane]

Hello,I currently have an extremely bulky power chair which doesn't fit my needs,some guy from motobility measured me and told me what there was out there for my then 25(ish) stone frame. I am really interested in your BM/mk3 all terrain chair and would like to know if I could get one on finance through motobility as I receive DLA, I have since lost around 7 stone in the last 4 years so need something better to get around in,not just indoors. Many thanks for your time sincerely Malkav Kane aka John Howard.

[Burgerman]

I don't build them for others. And all are experimental and permanently under development. I am as heavy as you though and my BM2/3 chairs don't much care.

But you cannot buy one.

It means DIY and much work to do something similar.

[Wheel-less]

Hullo John!

I'm Lauren, 63 years old - polio in 1952.

I've been virtually housebound for 10 years but finally a wheelchair lift has been installed to rise up the 10 steps between my front door and the street. I can no longer self propel. Too old, too much carpal tunnel in the hands; But now I will be able to think about finding a powerchair.

I could not even change the washer on a water tap, so most of your engineering diy talk goes right over my pathetic little head; but I understand well enough that you have made your chairs into actual working vehicles as opposed the sad inadequate bits of junk offered to us for sale.

So I hope to learn something here.

Right now, I have applied to scootability; They are coming with a powerchair on Friday to give me a driving test. I suppose they will be petty enough to actually COUNT the pedestrians I knock over, so I will have to try to be a bit careful. Anyway, if I qualify, I will be able to borrow a powerchair from them for up to a week at a time - which will give me more time to see what might be available new at a cheap price, or a bargain second hand. First, I hope to learn.

It is not speed I long for - the London streets are not appropriate really - what I desire is RANGE. It's a big city and nothing is "as the crow flies" so the 10 miles supposed range of the scootability chairs will not get me very far!

Anyway, thanks for this site and forum. Your chairs are just AWE inspiring! I'd probably kill myself in one of those things; but I sure would like the range of the lithium batteries!

Regards, Lauren

[Burgerman]

Well you wont get that with lead batteries. And likely the chair they bring you will be programmed badly, so steer equally badly. And will be small and weedy and not appropriate for outdoors too.

[Wheel-less]

Oh, that's a relief. I am accused of steering badly in a manual chair so I should pass the test with flying colours!

Seriously, what I must look to do is get a chair where the battery can be replaced with lithium. I get that you say it can be done, but this is something I must study on and try hard to understand so that when I do get a chair, it can be adapted.

[Burgerman]

Make sure you get a chair with group 24 or 70Ah batteries or bigger and after that much learning will start! And you say you don't want speed, but 6mph is about as slow as you will want outdoors, if only to cross busy junctions and get out of the way of myopic old women reversing across car parks...

[Wheel-less]

OH excellent! Thank you for telling me that! Seriously, I am clueless! I have used a manual chair all my life - never even BEEN in a powerchair. (I can't wait!)

But what about myopic old women running down pedestrians on the pavement at 6mph with a powerchair? That's all right, isn't it? I mean, there should be some benefit to that extra 2mph beyond merely dodging car traffic...right? Oh, I know: You'll just say it depends on what I want to use it for. Let me just say that mowing down pedestrians is a lot more fun than dodging traffic. So I will have it as dual use. (And to think I was willing to settle for 4mph. Tsh! Beginners, eh? How do you tolerate us?)

[Burgerman]

6 isn't fast. Quite the opposite. When you are gradually getting exposure, and shivering all the way home its way too slow... And of course you don't have to go at 6 that's just its top speed.

The first few days in a DECENT powerchair 4 will feel fast enough. In a typical small weedy one it will be too fast. Small casters, small indoor type chairs with bad steering (programming) are hard work outdoors and not comfortable. You soon want more. That's why my latest one does 15 mph and has about 2 to 3 times the range of a lead powered chair.

[Lord Chatterley]

OH excellent! Thank you for telling me that! Seriously, I am clueless! I have used a manual chair all my life - never even BEEN in a powerchair. (I can't wait!)

But what about myopic old women running down pedestrians on the pavement at 6mph with a powerchair? That's all right, isn't it? I mean, there should be some benefit to that extra 2mph beyond merely dodging car traffic...right? Oh, I know: You'll just say it depends on what I want to use it for. Let me just say that mowing down pedestrians is a lot more fun than dodging traffic. So I will have it as dual use. (And to think I was willing to settle for 4mph. Tsh! Beginners, eh? How do you tolerate us?)

Try a six-wheeler like the Groove - you can get an 8mph second-hand one with lights and seat lift and seat tilt for 1000 ukp. Smooth as a BM3 and steers very well because your weight is over the drive-wheels - it's kinder to the batteries too. The RNET is lithium friendly should you wish to upgrade.

Fit a centre footrest.

LC

[Wheel-less]

But this is just wonderful! Getting good advise is something I have been longing for! Apart from getting myself and manual chair hauled for medical stuff in a taxi, I have been virtually shut in for 10 years.

First step was to get an exterior lift to be able to reach the street; That finally done, now I am filled with fantasy over the damage I could do at 8 mph - well, I mean, it's not like they shouldn't KNOW better than venture onto the pavements once I get free!

But someone told me I'd have to pay road tax. I'm a doddery old fart of a woman on the state pension, so that is a concern.

[Lord Chatterley]

But this is just wonderful! Getting good advise is something I have been longing for! Apart from getting myself and manual chair hauled for medical stuff in a taxi, I have been virtually shut in for 10 years.

First step was to get an exterior lift to be able to reach the street; That finally done, now I am filled with fantasy over the damage I could do at 8 mph - well, I mean, it's not like they shouldn't KNOW better than venture onto the pavements once I get free!

But someone told me I'd have to pay road tax. I'm a doddery old fart of a woman on the state pension, so that is a concern.

No. There's no road tax - just ride on the path - and 8mph is slow when you get used to it - slower than a 10 year old girl on a bicycle.
I expect you will start off slow - you do not need to programme the chair or do anything complicated. There is a button next to the joystick that gives you the option of 5 'gears' - gear 1 is very slow - selecting gear 5 will give you 8mph. Simples.

LC

[Wheel-less]

LC: Who makes the Groove? I haven't been able to find it at all in any definative way, so finding one second-hand is doubly difficult.

I mean there's Quicky, TDX, Jive: All use the word groove.

[Burgerman]

Quickie Groove is no longer made.

[Lord Chatterley]

LC: Who makes the Groove? I haven't been able to find it at all in any definative way, so finding one second-hand is doubly difficult.

I mean there's Quicky, TDX, Jive: All use the word groove.

Sunrise make the Quickie Groove - later Sunrise models are usually more expensive because they are more recent. A new Groove trick seat and motors alone would cost more than 1000 ukp so keep an eye open on Gumtree, ebay Preloved etc..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hI0Ip6fRxI

LC

[bcblair]

I'm Blair, I'm 57 years old and live in Georgia USA. I am 5'7" and weigh about 325 pounds. I have several issues such as Arthritis, and other joint and muscle issues. I was forced out of my job in 2001 and have tried to consult since. My loyal client sold out in 2005 and I scrambled to replace them and did OK till 2009. I then had blood clots on my lungs and have been on blood thinners since. The hospital recommended and applied for expedited disability to pay for a nursing home, but 5 years later I am still waiting on that help. I noticed I hadn't done any activities(Concerts, sporting events, traveling, shopping) in 10 years, because I couldn't stand more than 2 minutes or my muscles would cramp up and put me on the ground. So I got a Pride Jazzy 600 xl Power Chair and a Bruno 670 lift. The chair broke down and I can't afford to let others fix it, so I bought a rough used Pride 1120-2000. I have a small amount of money left and have my final appeal coming up soon, supposedly. I hate the 1120-200 and want to fix the Jazzy 600 xl. It had a motor just stop. I fiddled around and got it going , but the next day it stopped again, then again. I took it to the local dealer and he said it was either the controller or the motor and either one was too expensive($1000) to fix and he sold me the 1120-2000 for $500 US. I'll post the info on parts below, just let me know if I need to post that on a different board. Sorry the pics are so big, let me know, if I need to reduce them.

Motor date

Chair serial number?

controller

controller label


Chair as bought in 2011







Eng

[Burgerman]

I took it to the local dealer and he said it was either the controller or the motor and either one was too expensive($1000) to fix and he sold me the 1120-2000 for $500 US. I'll post the info on parts below, just let me know if I need to post that on a different board. Sorry the pics are so big, let me know, if I need to reduce them.

Another clueless idiot or intentional fraud that either hasnt a damned clue how to diagnose a problem or just wants to sell a chair. Trust me this is the normal state of affairs...

This is the wrong forum though. Post this again in the correct forum (Everything Powerchair) and start a new thread and you will likely get some help diagnosing it. But its pretty hard if you dont have a chair in front of you.

[bcblair]

I took it to the local dealer and he said it was either the controller or the motor and either one was too expensive($1000) to fix and he sold me the 1120-2000 for $500 US. I'll post the info on parts below, just let me know if I need to post that on a different board. Sorry the pics are so big, let me know, if I need to reduce them.

Another clueless idiot or intentional fraud that either hasnt a damned clue how to diagnose a problem or just wants to sell a chair. Trust me this is the normal state of affairs...

This is the wrong forum though. Post this again in the correct forum (Everything Powerchair) and start a new thread and you will likely get some help diagnosing it. But its pretty hard if you dont have a chair in front of you.

I saw where it goes, after it was already here. I will Split it and put part in the intro and part in Everything Powerchair.

[bitgit]

Hi John,

Great site, and great work - too many items and articles of use here to mention individually. Total admiration for what you've done with your BM2 and now BM3. Not sure over how many years I've visited here and always found it worthwhile. Finally, plunge taken and signed up ...

...chiefly cos I have questions maybe someone can help with (apologies if it's a stupid question or I'm asking it in the wrong forum but ...)

Has anyone managed to identify (& source) the 4 pin "molex like" connectors used for the P&G VR2 bus connections?

In particular, I just want to lash up a breakout-box to monitor the signals between joystick module and the power controller

~Steve

[Burgerman]

You will likely get more answers to that if you start a thread here:

viewforum.php?f=2

[poppyblew]

Hi. My name is Chris and I live in Somerset, UK. I am 63 and like a previous poster, had polio as a child which left me with a limp and scoliosis. I now have post polio syndrome so have deteriorated in the past 14 years both physically and with respiratory issues. I have used a manual chair which some poor person, usually my partner, had to push as I'm unable to self propel. To save his back, I bought a Pride LX11 about 4 years ago which gets used as necessary. Due to being able to walk around the house, I had to self fund as NHS would only supply a manual.

I do not understand any of the tech talk on here but it's good to have somewhere to come for advice and read the chatty stuff.

[Vitolds]

.... V8 powered cars............

That's wonderful!
I realized, why I like your forum.

[Burgerman]

You should read my 20 year old site!

http://www.nitrous.info Your car needs this.

[Vitolds]

it's fine.

[Burgerman]

Maybe. But all big V8s work great with nitrous. Extra 200bhp for eg.