venuzuala...

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Re: venuzuala...

Postby Burgerman » 26 Jun 2018, 15:21

Fox is well. FOX... But this is absolutely on the ball


youtu.be/DS2bvTDIq-I
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Re: venuzuala...

Postby Burgerman » 26 Jun 2018, 21:38

Strange isnt it. How theres barely a mention of venuzuala on mainstream media.

Theres mass starvation, people eating zoo animals, and road kill. Dying in the streets, complete collapse of their economy and no fuel, food, or anything else. Yet theres endless crap about the never ending multiple suffering of muslims in a dozen countries. day after day. Why? Because MSM is full of leftists, liberals who love socialism in spite of the fact that it always ends the same way. Because the likes of berni sanders, or jeremy corbyn love socialism. They both held up venuzuala as the proof that socialism could work a few years back.

But the lefty, liberal media full of acedemics who love this ideal, that always fails, love to help the muslims as much as the poor. So on TV its all: what about the poor muslims, who have been murdering each other and anyone thats not muslim, for many centuries. Venuzuala? Best not mention that. Especially the reason.

It's socialism 101: A government that controls production and distribution, creates scarcity--followed by sham elections, arrests, dictatorship, corpses in the street. But it never starts out that way. It begins with the left-wing populists and its fan base, self-absorbed elites portraying a holy-hell as a heaven in waiting.

Take not you social democrat voters, and labour voters.
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Re: venuzuala...

Postby Burgerman » 26 Jul 2018, 00:23

So the leftist mainstream media never mentions venuzuala now its socialist marvel has begun to go south (exactly as expected and I predicted when the idiot jeremy corbyn told us how marvelous it all was and held it up as an example of socialism working), and they also never mention WHY. so I will.

They are now almost up to ONE MILLION percent inflation, and you cant buy anything anyway, as theres nothing to buy. Not food, not medicines, not fuel, or bog roll. Marvelous this socialism. Works like a charm every place its ever tried. Here its reported by a typically socialist newspaper. So they wont mention the reason. And venuzualas government does what every collapsed socialist state does. Blames everyone and everything else. Its all the wests fault... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... las-maduro
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Re: venuzuala...

Postby Burgerman » 20 Aug 2018, 17:32

In a frankly stupid attempt to stem their now 1,000,000 percent inflation expected befor xmas, the venuzualan socialist government are lopping 5 zeros of the currency!

That wont change a thing, obviously, because the problem is that the socialist system they love has reduced production of everything to almost negligable levels. So theres nothing available to buy, regardless of the number of zeros...

And there are millions trying to flea the country to places where they can get food, fuel, medical treatment, etc and so now all the other surrounding countries are adding immigration border controls to stop them. Cold war socialist countries history, all over again.

And STILL the younger generation, and the edu establishment will not teach the history or tell the truth about socialism. Instead they sanitize and lie about the history, blame everything possible for the endless failures, and keep on pushing out endless marxist, socialist loving students that dont have a damned clue.
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Re: venuzuala...

Postby Burgerman » 22 Aug 2018, 21:23

7 million people left for other countries on foot in 18 months. 4 million in the last 3 months alone. Mostly on foot. In the last 1 month 1 million went to columbia. This is the biggest immigration movement south america has ever seen. And unless the socialist (and now dictator too) is removed from power this will only get worse. Its a massive disaster in venuzuala. Regime change must happen or millions will die over the next few years.

I feel very sorry for them. Socialism, is not the only reason they are struggling but as a country with greater and easier to access oil reserves than even the likes of the oil rich middle eastern countries they should be running around in gold plated ferraris and huge rich cities and big rich industries.

But sheer sheer the ignorance of all those that simply do not understand why socialism always ends this way, is frankly amazing. It works its stupid magic EVERY SINGLE LAST TIME!!! Why cant they easily see why it cant ever work, or if too stupid to understand that, just look at the worlds history. EVERY last time it was ever tried it failed. Every TIME!!! That experiment was run. To death, quite literally, over and over for a century all over the world in hundreds of stupid attempts. The more socialist a country is the poorer it becomes destroying lives. The idealised central control, redistribution of wealth seems like such a fair ideal.Its why its so popular with students and the elites. So the poor have more. Unfortunately the opposite happens. The rich poor gap is reduced alright! Everyone ends up with absolutely nothing. Equality, socialist dream all fixed!!! :clap
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Re: venuzuala...

Postby Burgerman » 25 Aug 2018, 03:03

Wheres stupid corbyn now? A decade back he was praising it and saying that it showed that there was a better way, to share the wealth, to plan the economy! To tax the rich to give to the poor. Working great that...

We are all waiting for J corbyn to explain that its because they did socialism "wrong" like every time throuout history, or its all gone to shit because of some other excuse. Its always some other reason! Never socialism!

Because the starvation has started. Heres a guy WITH wheelbarrows of money, trying to get protein for his kids by buying stinking rotten beef. Why rotten? No power. They already ate the pets, the wildlife, the zoo animals... https://metro.co.uk/2018/08/24/people-f ... e-7877731/

It wont end well. And as usual all the media wont mention the reason as they are all leftist idiots. Worse, they will give pages of "factors" but wont spell it out because it upsets the SJW mentality of the latest generations, edu establishments, the media, government types, and all those that "know" that they are right. The ones that all tell each other lies, and sanitise history in colleges and universities worldwide. The only ones that DONT do this? Those that lived through it.
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Re: venuzuala...

Postby Burgerman » 30 Aug 2018, 11:57

The opposite to socialism is letting the 1 percent get richer.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars ... track.html

Dyson isnt rich enough yet, so he is employing 8000 people directly initially. To build electric cars, and many many more later on. That will be exported worldwide to make the country richer, and so the 30,000 sub contractors wages and suppliers of everything from IT systems to car manufacturing robots, and materials, can all make more money. Its called capitalism. Allowing people to KEEP the proceeds, allowing them to invest, develop, improve, all to get richer! It DRIVES everything from drug and food development and production to clean water supplies, and makes everyones standard of living higher.

According to the socialists however, you should tax all his money and use it to prop up the poorer so he has less to invest or develop projects like this, and you should tax his profits too, so he loses all interest in ever bothering. Lets just let the government decide who and how everything is manufactured, the wages, the final socialist solution. So they can keep making 50 year old moskvich or other socialist system cars that you have to wait up to 18 years to get! :lol: Ask that twit j.corbyn as this is his plan. As he puts it, a better system, not just for the few but for all... Venuzuala did it, and thats going great!
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Re: venuzuala...

Postby Burgerman » 31 Aug 2018, 11:20

For sacharlie and other socialists.

The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) released its latest tax data this month. The report details who contributed how much to federal revenues in 2009. The figures raise the question: why do so many in this country seem so eager to berate the ‘one percent’ rather than thank them for their extraordinary contributions to federal coffers?

According to the report, those in the top one percent had an average pre-tax income of $1,219,700 in 2009. Of this, they paid $353,000 federal taxes. Despite having earned 13.4 percent of the nation’s income, these individuals paid 38.7 percent of federal income taxes that year. To put it more starkly, this group makes less than 16 times as much as the average household but pays more than 40 times as much in federal income taxes.

Sure, the picture looks a little different when all federal taxes are included. With payroll, corporate, and excise taxes thrown into the mix, the top one percent contribute “only” 22.3 percent of all federal taxes. But in raw dollar terms, the average one percent household pays 23 times as much in total federal taxes as the average household—a difference of $337,700. Despite this, some politicians and activists claim with a straight face that our country’s top earners don’t pay their “fair share.”

Consider a world without such individuals—a world in which we have so taxed and vilified the most prosperous Americans that they all elect to follow Denise Rich and foreswear their U.S. citizenship in search of greater economic freedom. French President François Hollande is already learning this the hard way, as many of his country’s wealthiest individuals pack up and leave as a result of his proposed tax hike on French millionaires. Indeed, the U.S. itself has seen an eightfold increase in the number of Americans abandoning their citizenship (most, apparently for tax-related reasons). Since U.S. lawmakers have yet to show any ability to curtailing their spending, Uncle Sam would be looking to the remaining 99 percent of taxpayers to make up what would be a massive gap in income tax revenues due to the sudden emigration of the top one percent.

As a matter of simple arithmetic, everyone’s federal income taxes would have to go up by at least 63 percent to compensate for this lost revenue should the top earners depart. Such a gargantuan increase in taxes would rather substantially reduce work effort among the remaining 99 percent. The best evidence suggests that the economy loses 52 cents in output (lost work effort) for every dollar increase in individual income taxes. That means Congress would need to nearly double the rates for everyone else in order to cover the revenue gap.
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Re: venuzuala...

Postby Burgerman » 01 Sep 2018, 12:24

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Re: venuzuala...

Postby Burgerman » 11 Oct 2018, 01:00

Here you go. A reporter and description of venuzuala from the inside..

The great socialist revolution. The heros of corbyn. Chavez and then maduro...

Very interesting film.


youtu.be/3QjufrxigE4
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Re: venuzuala...

Postby Burgerman » 13 Oct 2018, 14:32

Heres another winner.

The socialist Zimbabwe just got over 1 hyper inflation, almost zero production starvation disaster. A decade later they got a new leader, that loves socialism and they are back to no production, and empty shelves. No power. And starvation.

Zimbabwe. Empty shelves, and approx 1 TRILLION dollars for 2 tins of baked beans and 1 carrot...

They got tons of raw materials. Tons of labour. Tons of opportunity. But no freedom or incentives to trade and own business or property. So they starve.

We are back to, do you tax the rich, get the country into debt to buy the man a fish? Or do you buy that man a fishing net?

https://solidarity-us.org/atc/51/p4616/
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Re: venuzuala...

Postby Lord Chatterley » 14 Oct 2018, 15:15

When self-sacrifice is considered to be a virtue their will always be those who are willing to collect those sacrifices for themselves.

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Re: venuzuala...

Postby Lord Chatterley » 30 Nov 2019, 04:12

They say politics is downstream of culture but culture is downstream of ethics - we need to ditch the horrific Christian ethos that self-sacrifice is a noble ideal.


youtu.be/ITCfu3yS5XU

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Re: venuzuala...

Postby Burgerman » 17 Jan 2020, 07:37

UNKNOWN AUTHOR

It’s easy to believe in socialism in modern America. It’s easy to hear about everyone working together for the common good, the government making sure everyone plays nice, and free and affordable everything for everyone and think, “Well that sounds like a great idea.” But the only reason it is so easy to believe is because we have never lived in a fully socialist country. We don’t know what socialism actually costs. Or what it actually looks like.

There’s an interesting story about Boris Yeltsin, then head of the Soviet Union, coming for a visit to America in 1989. He visited Johnson Space Center, but that nexus of technological wizardry didn’t turn his head. What did turn his head was an informal visit to a local Randall’s grocery store:

About a year after the Russian leader left office, a Yeltsin biographer later wrote that on the plane ride to Yeltsin’s next destination, Miami, he was despondent. He couldn’t stop thinking about the plentiful food at the grocery store and what his countrymen had to subsist on in Russia.

In Yeltsin’s own autobiography, he wrote about the experience at Randall’s, which shattered his view of socialism, according to pundits. Two years later, he left the Communist Party and began making reforms to turn the economic tide in Russia. . . .

“When I saw those shelves crammed with hundreds, thousands of cans, cartons and goods of every possible sort, for the first time I felt quite frankly sick with despair for the Soviet people,” Yeltsin wrote. “That such a potentially super-rich country as ours has been brought to a state of such poverty! It is terrible to think of it.”

So there you have it. Socialism works only on paper. And it works on paper only in an environment of wealth. You look around you today in the US and you think, “A small percentage of people have such fabulous wealth. If only we could spread that wealth around, then everyone would be happy.” Yet you don’t realize that wealth has already been spread around.

The tragedy of socialism is that it destroys all the wealth in a country in an attempt to create equality. It happened in the Soviet Union. And in China. North Korea. Vietnam. Many places. It’s not as if we don’t have plenty of case studies of the failures of socialism and communism. They litter the road of history like discarded bags of half-eaten takeout.

Now is the only time when socialism makes any sense. When there is still wealth enough to go around, but it’s not going around quite like you’d like. That’s when socialism makes the most sense. But give into it, and it pulls its bait and switch. The reality of socialism fully unfurled is greater injustice, totalitarianism, and abject poverty. Ask anyone who has lived through it. Ask Boris Yeltsin. All it took for him to abandon socialism was a trip to an American grocery store. What’s our excuse?
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Re: venuzuala...

Postby funkykeyboard » 06 Feb 2020, 22:04

I come in peace, no point in arguing. Just a different perspective.

In George Orwell's animal farm you had the humans in control, and then you had the pigs in control. The point is, there were someone in control, and very little difference between the 2.

Now you could argue you always need somebody in control, fair point (though some anarchists would argue with this). BUT as Tony Benn said,
"In the course of my life I have developed five little democratic questions. If one meets a powerful person--Adolf Hitler, Joe Stalin or Bill Gates--ask them five questions: “What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you exercise it? To whom are you accountable? And how can we get rid of you?” If you cannot get rid of the people who govern you, you do not live in a democratic system.

Karl Marx denied being a Marxist. He mostly called himself a Democrat. His inspiration for his whole PHILOSOPHICAL analysis was, the Paris commune where directors of the means of production were elected and D selectable by the people.

Russia was never communist, possibly socialist (socialism, some argued, was a period of transformation from the capitalist society, a society where the means of production are controlled by the top 1%, be that the bureaucratic Russian top 1% in the USSR or the privately owned 1% in the West. In either case there is still 1% at the top of society who own and control, or just control as in the case of Russia, the means of production, that the people "cannot get rid of".

You may question this definition. But it is not an sociological anomaly. The same situation occurred in feudalism. Kings and lords, analogous to the private capitalists, private individuals who owned and controlled the means of production, the land, and the priesthood who owned and controlled the means of production, the land.

It is taught in schools that Russia was state capitalism, the West has private capitalism, but at the end of the day they are both capitalism, and neither is communism. Communism, is a transformation in what Marx called "the social relationships". And it was fundamentally for Mark about whether 1% control society, or society control the 1%. Or at least in the modern day, the direction in which the 1% drags us.

Whether this is possible or not is another discussion. I don't think it is, I think the right-wing have won all the arguments and the left virtually doesn't exist any longer. But, the right-wing have won the arguments fighting straw men. If you really want to attack communism you have to attack democracy. You have to attack the principle of the people who are governed having any type of control over those who govern them (and I don't mean politicians, I mean the chairman of the boards.)

Best wishes, Tremulous Tetra.
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Re: venuzuala...

Postby funkykeyboard » 06 Feb 2020, 22:24

Another thing that needs to be pointed out in any truthful discussion is this;

Is state capitalism completely inferior to private capitalism? The USSR inferior to the USA?

In the period of the birth of the USSR, Russia went from a backward none capitalist monarchal society that couldn't even put laces in the boots of soldiers, to the world number 2 superpower. The 1st 1 into space. China, is a massive economic superpower.

China, Russia, became basically technocratic revolutions against monarchal societies, that were to a great degree ESPECIALLY in the nineteen twenties, thirties, forties initially more successful, achieved greater growths in GDP than any Western society, and then competed strongly at the latter stages. There were, absolutely agreed, fundamental problems with the isolationism of Russia and China. The bureaucratic state direction of capital has had problems. But we should not ignore the successes if we are going to be honest.

This is not me lording China or Russia. For me they are not communist societies. And so they are societies whose antidemocratic principles I am as opposed to as much as the Western capitalist antidemocratic principles.

China now has a greater GDP than America. Perhaps any other society in the world? Which model will win, state capitalism in China or Western capitalism in the rest of the world, is yet to be seen.

(Venezuela has seen MASSIVE attempts at destabilisation by the US. Cuba the same.)

Best wishes, Tremulous Tetra.
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Re: venuzuala...

Postby funkykeyboard » 06 Feb 2020, 22:35

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Re: venuzuala...

Postby funkykeyboard » 06 Feb 2020, 22:36

This 1 is good because he discusses the philosophical and economic forefathers of the Conservatives, Adam Smith, who argued against the current neoliberalist policies. Https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mxp_wgFWQo
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Re: venuzuala...

Postby Burgerman » 07 Feb 2020, 00:09

I come in peace, no point in arguing. Just a different perspective.

But a flawed one.

Now you could argue you always need somebody in control, fair point (though some anarchists would argue with this). BUT as Tony Benn said,
"In the course of my life I have developed five little democratic questions. If one meets a powerful person--Adolf Hitler, Joe Stalin or Bill Gates--ask them five questions: “What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you exercise it? To whom are you accountable? And how can we get rid of you?” If you cannot get rid of the people who govern you, you do not live in a democratic system.

Correct.

Karl Marx denied being a Marxist. He mostly called himself a Democrat. His inspiration for his whole PHILOSOPHICAL analysis was, the Paris commune where directors of the means of production were elected and D selectable by the people.

Makes no sense.

Russia was never communist, possibly socialist (socialism, some argued, was a period of transformation from the capitalist society, a society where the means of production are controlled by the top 1%, be that the bureaucratic Russian top 1% in the USSR or the privately owned 1% in the West. In either case there is still 1% at the top of society who own and control, or just control as in the case of Russia, the means of production, that the people "cannot get rid of".

Wrong in so many ways. The FREE MARKET (capitalism) that doesent exist in socialist economies controls employment, wages, production, investment in products to compete resulting in ferraris rather than moskivichs, and far wider choice. It also ensures that there is food on the shelves. And anyone is FREE to do, own, build, travel, work where they wish or run their own business. In the US the top 1% do NOT control anything. The FREE MARKET does. Its a natural supply/demand or goods people and very thing that society needs or wants. Every top down controlled society always fails. Just like venuzuala. And they ALWAYS blame everything except themselves.

It is taught in schools that Russia was state capitalism,

Capitalist economics literally meand free markets and free market employment, investment, and production, and ownership. Thats the exact opposite to anything state controlled. So your definition is totally wrong!

the West has private capitalism, but at the end of the day they are both capitalism, and neither is communism. Communism, is a transformation in what Marx called "the social relationships". And it was fundamentally for Mark about whether 1% control society, or society control the 1%. Or at least in the modern day, the direction in which the 1% drags us.

Capitalism is the OPPOSITE to what you call state capitalism! Thats socialism. And it always ends very badly.

Whether this is possible or not is another discussion. I don't think it is, I think the right-wing have won all the arguments and the left virtually doesn't exist any longer. But, the right-wing have won the arguments fighting straw men.

Oh it exists. Theres 45% of the UK, much of europe, almost all of the media, and the likes of the UK labour party still keen to send us bankrups. As will your liberal democrats if you let them.

If you really want to attack communism you have to attack democracy.

Those are 2 different things. So no. You can have a communist dictator, or a conservative right wing dictator. Neither is democratic. You can have democraccy in either case.
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Re: venuzuala...

Postby Burgerman » 07 Feb 2020, 00:23

Another thing that needs to be pointed out in any truthful discussion is this;

Is state capitalism completely inferior to private capitalism? The USSR inferior to the USA?

Theres no such thing as state capitalism! If the state control the free market then its the opposite to capitalism.

TRUE STORY,
UNKNOWN AUTHOR

It’s easy to believe in socialism in modern America. It’s easy to hear about everyone working together for the common good, the government making sure everyone plays nice, and free and affordable everything for everyone and think, “Well that sounds like a great idea.” But the only reason it is so easy to believe is because we have never lived in a fully socialist country. We don’t know what socialism actually costs. Or what it actually looks like.

There’s an interesting story about Boris Yeltsin, then head of the Soviet Union, coming for a visit to America in 1989. He visited Johnson Space Center, but that nexus of technological wizardry didn’t turn his head. What did turn his head was an informal visit to a local Randall’s grocery store:

About a year after the Russian leader left office, a Yeltsin biographer later wrote that on the plane ride to Yeltsin’s next destination, Miami, he was despondent. He couldn’t stop thinking about the plentiful food at the grocery store and what his countrymen had to subsist on in Russia.

In Yeltsin’s own autobiography, he wrote about the experience at Randall’s, which shattered his view of socialism, according to pundits. Two years later, he left the Communist Party and began making reforms to turn the economic tide in Russia. . . .

“When I saw those shelves crammed with hundreds, thousands of cans, cartons and goods of every possible sort, for the first time I felt quite frankly sick with despair for the Soviet people,” Yeltsin wrote. “That such a potentially super-rich country as ours has been brought to a state of such poverty! It is terrible to think of it.”

So there you have it. Socialism works only on paper. And it works on paper only in an environment of wealth. You look around you today in the US and you think, “A small percentage of people have such fabulous wealth. If only we could spread that wealth around, then everyone would be happy.” Yet you don’t realize that wealth has already been spread around.

The tragedy of socialism is that it destroys all the wealth in a country in an attempt to create equality. It happened in the Soviet Union. And in China. North Korea. Vietnam. Many places. It’s not as if we don’t have plenty of case studies of the failures of socialism and communism. They litter the road of history like discarded bags of half-eaten takeout.

Now is the only time when socialism makes any sense. When there is still wealth enough to go around, but it’s not going around quite like you’d like. That’s when socialism makes the most sense. But give into it, and it pulls its bait and switch. The reality of socialism fully unfurled is greater injustice, totalitarianism, and abject poverty. Ask anyone who has lived through it. Ask Boris Yeltsin. All it took for him to abandon socialism was a trip to an American grocery store. What’s our excuse?
[/color]

In the period of the birth of the USSR, Russia went from a backward none capitalist monarchal society that couldn't even put laces in the boots of soldiers, to the world number 2 superpower. The 1st 1 into space. China, is a massive economic superpower.


Where 20 million died of starvation and waited 10 years to get a used soviet "car" or a fridge and they never owned anything. Where the shops were empty. Superpower militarily yes. The people were in abject poverty, had zero freedom and no way out. So yes russia was seriously inferior.

And china was socialist and the poorest place on the planet. 50 years ago, they allowed a small area to run their own businesses, to own property, to keep the profits. And to hold their noses... They hated it, it goes directly against their communist/socialist beliefs. But they couldnt deny the results. but that area was super poor. Now its shenzen, the biggest industrial powerhouse in china. They still have to worry about big brother, and are controlled, watched, etc. But they allowed FREE TRADE or if you prefer CAPITALISM to do its thing.
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Re: venuzuala...

Postby Vitolds » 08 Feb 2020, 15:00

You mixed everything.
There was the USSR, it consisted of 16 republics.
Now Russia is not the USSR and does not closely resemble.
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Re: venuzuala...

Postby Burgerman » 09 Feb 2020, 09:23

The USSR forced union and centralised control may now have split. But the russian government still does behave as a dictator. You have no freedom, and are stuck with whatever you leader tells you or decides to do with your country or economy or military. Such as annexing the countries around you. And you cant vote him out. Because your democracy is a sham. Anyone standing against him has how shal we say "difficulties"...
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Re: venuzuala...

Postby Vitolds » 09 Feb 2020, 22:22

You are like a parrot.
Do you have your own brains? Find me a confirmation of your words.
Annexation of countries? Can you ask people living in the Crimea?
Maybe it's you behind the big fence?
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Re: venuzuala...

Postby Burgerman » 10 Feb 2020, 00:01

https://www.history.com/news/crimea-rus ... annexation

Or are you refering to the fake referendum, run to confirm that they all wanted you to do it? :lol:

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic ... tin-dearly
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Re: venuzuala...

Postby Vitolds » 10 Feb 2020, 00:18

:lol:
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Re: venuzuala...

Postby Burgerman » 10 Feb 2020, 06:07

You are laughing because you think I am wrong. But I am laughing because I KNOW you are! :clap
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Re: venuzuala...

Postby Vitolds » 10 Feb 2020, 11:40

To know the country, you need to be in the country. The media will write what can be sold, it does not matter if it is true or not, the main thing is that you click with the mouse.
Putin is not Russia's problem, that's your problem. "To fight" with Russia you allocate money, you need to master the money. A great scheme for stealing money ... Everything is simple. :lol:
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Re: venuzuala...

Postby Burgerman » 10 Feb 2020, 12:13

Rubbish. A referendum, or a vote under putin is a joke. A show for the rest of the world. You do as you are told.
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Re: venuzuala...

Postby Vitolds » 10 Feb 2020, 13:13

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Tt1LgjAvoI
look at the date and watch this video.
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Re: venuzuala...

Postby Burgerman » 10 Feb 2020, 13:24

Thats called propaganda. Look it up. Much the same as the channel it came from. We watch that channel, but we can all see its bias and bullshit but you seem unable to do so.
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