Wheelchair Insurance or Just Action Camera?

[Mechniki]

Getting/having wheelchair insurance on a modified wheelchair (without a DVSA Engineering Report). To many it is a sore issue. As Technically for a 'normal' wheelchair or mobility scooter you don't need insurance. Insurance is a sore issue for me. I insure with Mark Bates Insurance. I used to be with FISH Insurance when I had a standard Power Trike by PDQ, but the moment I added higher powered gels to the battery pack, they ceased to insure it. So I went ahead and added a 1000w Heinzmann hub motor (5 X the power of a PDQ's 199w). Purchased through Evans Cycles. Had it set up by Halfords. But couldn't get Insurance ANYWHERE. I am sure others here have had the same problem. I would happy with 3rd Party Liability only cover.

I have Action camera's too, that I record journeys (when the wheelchair is moving). I used to have waterproof bullet camera's but I was always disappointed by the footage, as I could never get the sight line of the camera level. After I spilled into a road off the pavement in 2017 the camera got broken, I purchased an Apeman A66 with has a small LCD screen and a waterproof cover.

In the UK you are not legally required to have Wheelchair/Mobility Insurance, even though it is recommended by the Driver and Vehicle Safety Agency (DVSA). There was a gentleman in Dorking that had an accident in Sainsburys (that wasn't their fault) their 'scooter' was hit by another 'scooter' and was pushed into a Sales Assistant, that broke their leg. The second scooter fled the scene. It was a TGA mobility off road, without licence plates. Anyway the gentleman was sued by Sainsburys, and had to pay £12,000 in damages + fees and £5000 compensation to the shop assistant. If they had been insured, the insurance would have covered legal expenses and they could have probably got off. I see similar cases on News (app).

So now I use an Apeman A66 wherever I go. Along with an Apeman A77 (has built in wifi) which is power hungry, and will drain a Ion battery in 50 minutes or less. I use it as a rear view mirror, so it doesn't spend time recording. Recording cuts the run time down to 33 minutes. Because I fit it to the gouging handle (handles most people remove). And the camera is also in a waterproof case, with a 'fish eye' lens, I find it difficult to change the battery mid journey. But they give piece of mind. If such an event happened to me (accident), I could choose to share the footage or destroy it.

The Apeman A66 despite being a cheaper camera has several recording options, I use a lower resolution setting of 720P (1280x720) at 60 fps (frames per second); it does have High Definition (HD) settings, but at 30 fps, so grainy looking video.

The Apeman A77 has many settings for resolution, HD and 4K ultra, despite that it's a more expensive camera; it can only record at 30 fps and has no zoom function. And it has a cr4p run time. Standard batteries are 3.7v Ion 1050mah - I use 3.7v Ion 1350mah.

The Apeman are so much cheaper than Insurance

[foghornleghorn]

The Apeman are so much cheaper than Insurance

Grapes are cheaper than diamond rings. What is the actual point you are trying to make?

[Mechniki]

Do you have insurance on your wheelchairs/scooters? Know of other vendors that may provide insurance for modified mobility equipment, not covered by your contents policy. For outside use. As I have been having trouble finding an Insurer for modified equipment.

[Burgerman]

I dont know anyone that bothers with insurance. Insurance is just:

YOUR RISK + EVERYONE ELSE'S RISK (And those people are all less careful than me) divided by number of insured. This figure is based on previous years payouts. Then they add around 100% or more, to cover accountants, buildings, wages, holidays, fancy cars, training, phones, gas, electric, gov tax, tax on profits, tax on wages, and a few other expenses, court costs, paperwork, assessors, etc and thats what you pay.

Better to accept your own responsibility. Insurance is for those people that like to be poor. Cheaper to accept the risk and pay your own way.

E.G. Used a powerchair for 21 years. No reason to ever need to pay out anything. But if I had decided to use insurance it would have cost me the price of a brand new chair. I could have that in the bank instead. And the same for the nest 20 years.

[Scooterman]

I have insurance on my class 3 scooter which I ride on the road. It's £49/yr incl roadside puncture repair.

I have it mainly for the puncture repair service and legal representation in the case of some legal argy bargy if I run into the back of a car, or someone steps off the pavement in front of me.

If BM was me he could sort all the legal stuff himself (if needed). I haven't got his brain so couldn't, and would get all scared of I received an aggressive letter from the 3rd party's solicitor.

[Mechniki]

I have insurance on my class 3 scooter which I ride on the road. It's £49/yr incl roadside puncture repair.

I have it mainly for the puncture repair service and legal representation in the case of some legal argy bargy if I run into the back of a car, or someone steps off the pavement in front of me.

If BM was me he could sort all the legal stuff himself (if needed). I haven't got his brain so couldn't, and would get all scared of I received an aggressive letter from the 3rd party's solicitor.

That's way cheaper than any of my Policies, including the Roma stored outside (and that's liability only)
who do you insure with, please?

[steves1977uk]

I have never had insurance on any of my powerchairs in my 37 years+ using one. Don't see the point in it.

Steve

[Mechniki]

I have never had insurance on any of my powerchairs in my 37 years+ using one. Don't see the point in it.

Steve

wow

[greybeard]

I have never had insurance on any of my powerchairs in my 37 years+ using one. Don't see the point in it.

Steve

Insurance companies are legal bandits. They all make you jump through hoops to avoid having to honour their commitments to pay out. I would not have any if I was not forced to do so, apart from car insurance - simply to protect me from the idiocy of others.

[steves1977uk]

https://www.gov.uk/mobility-scooters-an ... -insurance Says insurance is not needed, but recommended. I am always careful when I go out in crowded pedestrian areas and busy places, turn down the speed and up it in open areas.

Steve

[Burgerman]

Look at it like this...

Damage claim is x pounds or dollars.
Remembering that most of us have never done any damage and never will, never mind a scuff or a scratch or run over someone...

So you can either pay out of pocket x damage. If ever.
Or you can pay an insurance company the average x damage from their records, plus all their business costs, profit, tax, shareholders, wages, offices, etc etc. on top. Year on year. We wont mention the 101 reasons they will refuse to pay anyway, or the excess.

Which do you suppose will be cheaper long term?

[Scooterman]

That's way cheaper than any of my Policies, including the Roma stored outside (and that's liability only)
who do you insure with, please?

It's FISH insurance. But it's just the scooter I have insured, not the Powerchair

But thir theft cover is a bit of a swizz. Cos you're not covered if you leave the scooter unattended. And no one's gonna nick when you're sat on it!

[Scooterman]

I am always careful when I go out in crowded pedestrian areas and busy places, turn down the speed and up it in open areas.

Steve

If you injure someone don't hang around and exchange details. Scarper as fast as you can and never go back

[Mechniki]

That's way cheaper than any of my Policies, including the Roma stored outside (and that's liability only)
who do you insure with, please?

It's FISH insurance. But it's just the scooter I have insured, not the Powerchair

But thir theft cover is a bit of a swizz. Cos you're not covered if you leave the scooter unattended. And no one's gonna nick when you're sat on it!

I was with FISH at some point, back when I had a Quickie GPV. But they wouldn't insure the add on PDQ Powertryke

The Insurance is similar on most Policies, vacated wheelchairs and scooters are only insured for theft if they're in a locked building. If they're unattended outside for more than an hour the batteries have to be removed, which is completely unreasonable.

I am always careful when I go out in crowded pedestrian areas and busy places, turn down the speed and up it in open areas.

Steve

If you injure someone don't hang around and exchange details. Scarper as fast as you can and never go back

Yup I noticed!! LOL

[Burgerman]

Completely unreasonable?
Do you know how insurance works.

I will insure you. You can leave outside as long as you want. With batteries.

Cost of premium ill be cost of scooter, at least, as it may be taken several times a year, x2 for profit margin to cover shareholders, wages, etc etc. So lets call that 12k?

[Mechniki]

Completely unreasonable?
Do you know how insurance works.

I will insure you. You can leave outside as long as you want. With batteries.

Cost of premium ill be cost of scooter, at least, as it may be taken several times a year, x2 for profit margin to cover shareholders, wages, etc etc. So lets call that 12k?

NO, that is WHY I insure

[Burgerman]

You like paying all that wages/buildings/business costs/accountants/holiday pay/computers/letters/legal on top of the actual cost of any repair cost you might have to make?

Fair enough. Send me my 12k by paypal and I will cover you.

[Mechniki]

You like paying all that wages/buildings/business costs/accountants/holiday pay/computers/letters/legal on top of the actual cost of any repair cost you might have to make?

Fair enough. Send me my 12k by paypal and I will cover you.

12K resistor any good?
12K is more than 24x what I pay to insure my 3 electric wheelchairs

[Burgerman]

Yes but you said they wont cover modified, left outside a shop, etc. I will.

You pay 500 a year?
Crazy. If I had done that, or steve had done that for his 37 years then you will have supported that company and its employees to the tune of 18k. Mad.

[steves1977uk]

I am always careful when I go out in crowded pedestrian areas and busy places, turn down the speed and up it in open areas.

Steve

If you injure someone don't hang around and exchange details. Scarper as fast as you can and never go back

Steve

[steves1977uk]

Yes but you said they wont cover modified, left outside a shop, etc. I will.

You pay 500 a year?
Crazy. If I had done that, or steve had done that for his 37 years then you will have supported that company and its employees to the tune of 18k. Mad.

Agree BM, that 18k is better spent on maintenance and repairs.

Steve

[Scooterman]

I have insurance on my class 3 scooter which I ride on the road. It's £49/yr incl roadside puncture repair.

I have it mainly for the puncture repair service and legal representation in the case of some legal argy bargy if I run into the back of a car, or someone steps off the pavement in front of me.

If BM was me he could sort all the legal stuff himself (if needed). I haven't got his brain so couldn't, and would get all scared of I received an aggressive letter from the 3rd party's solicitor.

I just received my renewal policy from FISH and they want £79 standard cover + £10 puncture. I'm not going to bother with it. I've had the policy for a few years and they've never loaded the renewal before so I don't know why this time?

The renewal is nearly a 100% increase so they can get stuffed. Just have to take a chance I don't run anyone over!

[Irving]

I have insurance on my class 3 scooter which I ride on the road. It's £49/yr incl roadside puncture repair.

I have it mainly for the puncture repair service and legal representation in the case of some legal argy bargy if I run into the back of a car, or someone steps off the pavement in front of me.

If BM was me he could sort all the legal stuff himself (if needed). I haven't got his brain so couldn't, and would get all scared of I received an aggressive letter from the 3rd party's solicitor.

I just received my renewal policy from FISH and they want £79 standard cover + £10 puncture. I'm not going to bother with it. I've had the policy for a few years and they've never loaded the renewal before so I don't know why this time?

The renewal is nearly a 100% increase so they can get stuffed. Just have to take a chance I don't run anyone over!

Ummm, £79 is what I've been paying last 3 y. this yr it went up to £99, i had a moan and it reverted to £79. Couldn't find anything cheaper and house policy only covers public liability if no vehicle involved. Before accident i used to have insurance through british cycling, so glad i did as that got me the compensation for accident. its a gamble i'm glad i took...

[Scooterman]

Hi Irving, was that for your car or powerchair?

Mine was for my mobility scooter.

Here's last year's policy.

It wouldn't be so bad if FISH's policy cover the user and not the equipment. But I remember asking them about it and they said no it's for the mob aid. So if someone has several mob aids and wants them all insured they have to take a policy for each one

[Irving]

For my wheelchair...

[Scooterman]

Do you think that’s because powerchairs are about x4 the cost of an equivalent scooter? A big scooter can be picked up for about 1.5k new whereas a class 3 powerchair is about 6k. But powerchairs are far better made and have a lot more engineering and electronics in them.

[Irving]

Replacement cost might be a factor, mines insured for £3.5k as that's the price of a good s/h replacement. Location is also a factor and the impact of that can change year on year depending on local crime rates, etc. Also your age could be a factor. Insurance is a game of statistics; it's all a gamble!

[stevelawiw]

Surely if you ever make a claim the insurers first question to you is 'What make/model is the wheelchair?' and the second question will be 'Has it been modified in any way?' And when you answer yes that's the end of your claim? insurers don't like mods

[foghornleghorn]

Pretty hard to find a powerchair that's going to be out and about crashing into things which is completely unmodified.

To be honest, in terms of risk I would have expected scooters to have the worst statistics.

[Burgerman]

I look at it like this.
Insurance is just the cost of every other idiots accidends and damage and dodgy claims, plus approx 100% profit to cover the business, tax, costs, wages etc. So its obviously WAY dearer than just accepting the risk and paying for any claim yourself.

Over the last 1997 till 2019 - 22 years, I never insured my chair once. Better still, I didnt ever regret that and would never have been making any claim. So my total outlay is zero.

Now...£75 x 22 years even without the compound interest that you would have got, is $1760 I saved... And even if I somehow manage to do 1760 worth of damage today, I am still breaking even. And thats not going to happen anyway.

So.. Its a bit like TV licences. I refused to join the BBC's little pedophile club, on the basis that I dont like threats from a bunch of champagne socialist liberals that are massively biased against everything I like, and for every single thing I cant stand. I am not paying for all their propaganda.

So for 30 years I never bought a TV license, and never will on principle. Every month they threaten me with 1000 pound fines, and court, and I have a pile of their abusive threatening letters around a foot high. The ACTUAL courts only fine people 70 to 200 anyway. So having saved 150 a year for 30 years, I could afford the fine even if the court upheld it. But I dont have any interest in dumbed down biased TV anyway so dont watch it other than to check that its all the same crap.So no court could prosecute me. The BBC presume way too much. So I am winning by 4.5K plus compound interest for 30 years, so probably 15K already. So just like insurance, f**k the BBCs mafia threats /letters.

I see insurance, and all credit, the exact same way. The system is geared up to rip off the gullible.