Computer Questioin

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Computer Questioin

Postby expresso » 26 Mar 2020, 03:54

this is my MB - GA-Z77X UD5H - i noticed for a while - it seems like the system is racing ramping up speed when i am not even doing much at all - - i have a low end graphics card - nothing special - i wondered if its just running too hot causing the system to ramp up to cool it ? sometimes i get iffy graphs on the screen

MB does have onboard - i am using the display port connection on internal card - MB has same port also - i was thinking of going back to onboard graphics to see if it changes anything - BUT do i have to disable internal graphs in the bios and then plug in the cable in the MB port - because i tried the cable in the MB and reboot but it didnt pick it up - had to shut down and put the cable back to internal Card.

would just disabling internal graphics with cable plugged in the MB work or do i have to remove the graphics card to be sure ? i want to avoid getting a black screen and then nothing works if i disable graphics card - - but also do you think that could cause the system to ramp up in speed if graphics card is old and maybe running hot ?

or just a waste of time ?
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Re: Computer Questioin

Postby Cornbread » 26 Mar 2020, 05:35

Chances are the MB disabled the onboard when the dedicated gpu was installed. I'd pull the gpu and check then. in the past when my video started glitching on me, it was the gpu giving me warnings it was about to need recycled. One got clogged up by let dander/fur and cooked. The second had a severe machining flaw in the heatsink, when the paste got old it no longer filled the gap and it cooked. Both started twitching during use, then occasional blue/black screens, then nothing.

Have you checked usage? IE the % of the cpu and gpu being used? In case something is running you don't know about. As well as your actual temps? Following knowing those, for me, comes cleaning (lessons learned). Heatsinks, fans, intake portss, exhaust ports and filters. If a really old pc, which if yours is X77 based, it probably is, I'd consider some fresh thermal paste.
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Re: Computer Questioin

Postby Burgerman » 26 Mar 2020, 08:07

Or just configured badly in the bios or in windows. Every computer I look at as a bunch of configuration problems. For e.g did you ever configure all your fan start/stop configurations wuth regard to sensor temps in the bios? Or with some unessassary aftermarket software wasting CPU cycles in windows?

Did you configure power saving correctly?
Did you overclock the thing? Over volts and extra CPU cycles cause much heat in a exponential way. Triggered by a typical PC with way too many things running in the background.

For e.g. do you have the CPU configured properly to drop volts and slow down when not needed in bios? If you do, do you have something causing your CPU to be above 1 to 2% at idle. Mines at zero as it should be. It doesent even reach 1% at idle as it unclocks from 5.2ghz down to 800mhz and CPU voltage drops to half as it should. Fans barely run, and the PC takes 5X less watts from the wall. From 500 down to 65w in fact. It ramps up instantly only when needed. If yours is correctly configured it should be similar.

Thats just one possibility.

As for graphics there are many programs that use graphics processors to do maths. Check out what your graphics is doing... If thats the problem.
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Re: Computer Questioin

Postby Burgerman » 26 Mar 2020, 08:14

I migh add that your motherboard has DUAL bios, so you can experiment in the bios easily and no matter what you screw up with graphics, or graphics settings or overclocking settings should you wish, you can just revert back to the one that works. So no danger of making it impossible to boot.

i am using the display port connection on internal card

So your the one!
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Re: Computer Questioin

Postby expresso » 26 Mar 2020, 18:16

Yes is on the OLD side - i dont do as much as i used to with converting large files - blurays etc, - so now its mostly just basic usage - i have OC settings - i am using stock settings stock voltages at 4.4 steady - it does slow down when not in use - it shuts off when not in use - my fans are on Fan Controller - which i realized where on High - i lowered them all -

have an AOI cooler - small one Antec 750 that ramps up and makes the most noise when used - i notice the GPU is using alot more than CPU in task manager - i know it has two bios but i did have issues with that in the past - still couldnt get it to boot when i was locked out - i dont want to try to many things - to reset the Cmos i have to open my case and direct someone to push the little button inside - not all my girls are able to understand english well - today is one of those days so not looking to lock myself out of my desktop today.

its much quieter now when on and not in use - but at times it does ramp up - more than i think it should - its also possiable the paste on my CPU - but i am not looking to remove it or replace it - its not that bad yet - i do a cleaning with air blower - got alot out last time i did - i may do it again - i was just wondering if the GPU card i have installed could be affecting it and making it ramp up - - i figure if i try the onboard and by pass the card installed -

i have to look in the bios again - its been years since i played around with bios and adjusting etc, - i am not so much into it at the moment - on my next build - i want to go small fast and quiet - - larger AOI - larger fans etc , with todays stock speeds - may not even bother to OC it - plus its on my desk near me so i hear it more than i used to before when i had it under the desk. its easier to clean and adjust things - reset etc, when on my desk so i left it there

look at GPU
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Re: Computer Questioin

Postby Cornbread » 26 Mar 2020, 20:30

Might want to research the lifespan of that aio. Also possible it's pump is going.
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Re: Computer Questioin

Postby Burgerman » 26 Mar 2020, 20:33

Shouldnt be using 3% while idle. You have a ton of junk and unwanted services alloaded and wasting CPU cycles even on the few things I can see. All that adobe stuff, and update stuff and avast stuff just to begin with. Theres around a dozen things and a few services that need to be stopped/removed/properly configured there alone. Probably another 20 or 30 things too.

Check CPU speed at idle and at 100% load. It should be very different. Firefox is correctly using your graphics card instead of CPU.
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Re: Computer Questioin

Postby expresso » 26 Mar 2020, 21:01

oh well - i am not that smart to start removing and doing too much that i dont know about - why would firefox use my GPU - for graphics i guess - since i am using a card instead of the onboard graphics -

the AOI was replaced once before - i have the antec 950 now i believe when they replaced it - dont recall how long ago thats been - but they should outlast the system if all goes well - i am sure all those background running task do ADD UP - but they all show low usage - - i have fan speeds on low- and AOI on quiet settings - but sometimes thats not always good either - soon as it heats up a bit - then fan speeds up to cool it - it does seem a bit better now since i lowered the fan speeds -

i will try goin to onboard graphics and see what that does - my card is not the greatest graphics card GTX750 Ti
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Re: Computer Questioin

Postby steves1977uk » 26 Mar 2020, 21:02

Expresso, why are you running so much stuff in the background? czy That's a crazy amount! 3/4 of that stuff can be disabled or uninstalled.

On my PCs I only run what's needed and disable stuff that's not wanted in the background. My CPU when idle is between 0.11%-0.18%, even on my i7-3770k system. Avast needs to go pronto! And here's the reason... https://www.cnet.com/news/antivirus-fir ... sing-data/

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Re: Computer Questioin

Postby expresso » 26 Mar 2020, 21:45

i have no idea - its not like i am running it - i install windows - install my programs and use it - i didnt add them there - windows does during installations or the OS and programs
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Re: Computer Questioin

Postby expresso » 26 Mar 2020, 22:10

maybe i should do a fresh install and just start over - i removed avast - running a scan spybot - system temp is avg. 50C - high Cpu usage - during the scan

my AOI was never the quietest - Rad is single Rad with Two thick fans - one on each end - they run fast and make noise - but i dont recall my system racing as much as often for nothing really -

i open the browser and its ramps up speed - or internet usage seems to ramp it up also - i am sure something is Off somewhere - is there a program i can use that will just put the background jobs that are running to sleep with out me trying to figure out each process thats running etc - i see 168 processes in background

i have a Corona PC now -
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Re: Computer Questioin

Postby steves1977uk » 26 Mar 2020, 22:16

Here's my PC...

bgprocesses.jpg


Notice how clean it is of background processes. :ugeek: I only run stuff when needed! :thumbup:

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Re: Computer Questioin

Postby expresso » 26 Mar 2020, 22:19

More issues - mystery to me - i save a bookmark - create a folder for it - hit save done -

now i go look for it under bookmarks - other bookmarks - every folder i see - and its not there - the folder is not there -

if i go save the site again and pick a folder - i can see the folder there - click save again - go look for it - and cant find it no where - using firefox - i signed in and synced them - this happened to me once before and i figured it out - was something simple but havnt a clue now -

i much be getting old here - everything bothers me - about to throw the PC out the window - with the noise now - i want it quiet now
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Re: Computer Questioin

Postby expresso » 26 Mar 2020, 22:21

steves1977uk wrote:Here's my PC...

bgprocesses.jpg


Notice how clean it is of background processes. :ugeek: I only run stuff when needed! :thumbup:

Steve



yes i notice - but dosnt do me any good - haha - i install programs i use and they do there own thing -
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Re: Computer Questioin

Postby steves1977uk » 26 Mar 2020, 22:24

expresso, :chillpill cheers Take a deep breath and relax! :thumbup:

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Re: Computer Questioin

Postby expresso » 26 Mar 2020, 22:39

i found the bookmark issue - it got buried in another section - i have so many bookmarks now that i cant find anything if i needed anyway - would take me a day to find it on bookmark - i would like to save them - download them and start fresh - i believe i can do that ?
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Re: Computer Questioin

Postby Burgerman » 27 Mar 2020, 12:05

i install programs i use and they do there own thing -

They all TRY that on mine too. But you should shut down every background thing in both windows or in whatever thing you just installed esp auto update garbage and services. Se all that to run when YOU want. Also Avast isnt needed. Win 10 has a better system installed thats running anyway... Except you should turn that off in registry too as it wastes power and cpu cycles all the time and espesially if you open anything or copy loads of files. I just run mine once a month and have no real time anti virus at all. Its just not needed unless you start running and opening bad files yourself!

And the same with all that adobe stuff. I have many adobe products installed. NONE of their updates, services or other pseudo viruses are running at all ever. Unless I decide to do so.

Its no wonder you need an overclocked computer as you are mostly running all these companies junk! Like steve, I have under 55 background things running right now with a lot of stuff open and in use. Less when first booted up days ago. If you allow a PC to run all these companies update/services/background tasks/advertising stuff, your computer isnt your own. Its a mess. You ideally want a clean streamlined PC that only does as you told it to do. For e.g. Theres NO tasks in my scheduler. Other than the ones I added. Or some of the default windows ones. Because windows too adds hundreds of unwanted things to run, phone home, or save you from yourself, or to update stuff. Disable or delete, all of that junk as needed. Yes takes months to get it all configured right. So than do a full backup and save it somewhere safe! You can even deploy that careful configuration to new computers or new hardware after deleting the HAL and booting in safe mode. Instead of doing a fresh install and having to start over. So you start fresh with a completely configured system. Just need to add drivers.
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Re: Computer Questioin

Postby expresso » 27 Mar 2020, 18:25

its not the video card causing it to ramp up fan speed on cooler - its either the Cooler and or the CPU paste - either one or both - the system is hotter than it used to be which is causing the cooler fan to speed up - i have no desire to open it and change the paste on this system - maybe in the winter - i start a new build

what is the lasted on the chips now - with intel and Amd - i am sure i have more background stuff running than you do - but didnt bother me or my system much before and now either really - just the ramping up of CPU and Fan is more than the Norm.

i dont need an OC - its fine either way really but with intense file converting etc, extra OC is helpful - for normal stuff - Stock is fine also - i was more into this OC thing back when i build this one - not sure i will bother on next one - or just do the simple OC if at all
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Re: Computer Questioin

Postby Burgerman » 27 Mar 2020, 18:28

Yes but the devil is in the details. Use logic, find the reason.
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Re: Computer Questioin

Postby expresso » 27 Mar 2020, 18:39

logic tells me its either the cooler - and or the paste - this cooler was never quiet - since is small and has two high speed fans - its just more so now - because of the higher temps. can something be running in the background to cause more CPU usage - i am sure it can be - or i can install a fresh OS and start over

actually i did go back to very first fresh install - but it didnt change anything - so i went back again to recent with all my programs i had installed - the fresh install at that time was clean and running cooler - but now no difference so leads me to believe CPU paste and cooler
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Re: Computer Questioin

Postby Burgerman » 27 Mar 2020, 19:37

Stop making grand changes, reinstalling etc. Theres no need and you will just repeat all the same stuff as previously. And analyse the thing carefully using logic to get to the bottom of it.

For e.g. top it loading all that garbage, or boot in safe mode and take a look at CPU and graphics card processing. Theres a lot of data mining spam/virus/trojans making money for other people on your PC with bitcoin etc. Theres a 100 things to check out. If its non of those, try disabling one driver at a time. Check that you dont have high cpu usage intermittently from "SYSTEM INTERUPTS" in task manager. If thats over 0.3 or 0.4% cpu intermittently its due to a driver issue. Roll back one at a time till it goes! Its also due to various incorrectly applied windows cracks...

Thats ONE option from hundreds - find the problem, dont just go guessing and hoping. I have never once in 40 years had to reapply heat sink... And you can tell if its a cooling issue fom CPU temperature when unclocked. The fans should not speed up till it reaches at least 70C as theres no point. And they shouldnt reach full speed till 80C or more. If they do its configured wrong. Same with graphic card fans. Configure correctly. Disable everything. Boot it in safe mode. Does it still do it?
Disable the task scheduler. Does it still do it?
Do you have the thing set to repeatedly crack windows automatically? That will definitely cause it... Delete the file hidden in the C:\Users\Burgerman\AppData\Local or some variation. Or windows system32 or wherever its hiding. Find out from the scheduler!
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Re: Computer Questioin

Postby expresso » 27 Mar 2020, 19:46

right Hundreds of options which i dont feel like wasting a year to figure it out - :D will just get me annoyed more - you may know where to go and what to do easily - but will take ALOT of time and many mistakes to do what you do -

it wasnt doing this before - not sure how long though - i just paid more attention to it since i am home more and i realized this is a bit too much - something is off - i dont recall this when i installed the OS Fresh - with nothing - i made an image then - i went back to the fresh OS - and it still ramps up - so to me that says its not the OS the issue - even though things can contribute to it from what your saying and thats true -

if it were the OS settings - it should have be resolved when i went back to the fresh install ?
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Re: Computer Questioin

Postby Burgerman » 27 Mar 2020, 19:52

Who knows. It depends on many things. Including your drivers, and your bios configuration, both now and at the time. Guesswork doesent work. Or if it does you dont know why. And will repeat the problem.

Use logic, find the problem!
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Re: Computer Questioin

Postby expresso » 27 Mar 2020, 19:54

trust me - i wont find the problem - change cooler and paste maybe only way to cool it down and keep it quiet - i dont feel like doing work on hardware now - but works fine otherwise - i do notice though - browsers - internet affect it - firefox and others
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Re: Computer Questioin

Postby Burgerman » 27 Mar 2020, 20:04

Thats like locking your car in the garage because its idling at 3000rpm and its too loud.

Also it wont work. Even if the paste is all missing. (It wont be, it will be exactly as when you installed it). Because the CPU generates exactly the same amount of watts no matter how well you cool it. Thoe watts need fans to cool it. If you improve that junction, paste, etc, you still have the same amount of watts to get rid of. That means the same amount of fan power needed even if the temp is lower.

That defies logic again.
Its not the temperature that defines the fan speeds. Its the amount of watts that CAUSES the energy to need removing /cooling. If anything making the cpu cooler puts more heat into the water to be cooled! You must identify where the problem is and cure that. Not just try to cool the energy caused by some bad configuration or someone using your PC for data mining!

I could have your PC idling at say 500mhz, 0% cpu, and 0% graphics processing in an hour. It just needs all the uneeded junk removing like avast, adobe update crap etc, all the incorrect configuration sorting, and the bios setting up correctly.
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Re: Computer Questioin

Postby expresso » 27 Mar 2020, 20:13

but i am not you and you are not here - i cant ship it to you to fix it for me and ship it back so i am stuck with this the way it is - i got rid of avast - nothing changed - adobe well i use it so not going to get rid of it - if i do nothing and let it just sit - it gets quiet - once i start doing something it ramps up - sometime slowly sometimes faster - BUT at time - even when i am not doing anything - it can ramp up also - so yes i agree something is causing it to do so from background -
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Re: Computer Questioin

Postby Arima » 27 Mar 2020, 21:08

When you look at task manager are you only interested in process or services? What is the difference? How do you determine which ones to kill? If it has an obvious Brand name like Adobe or Avasti those are easy. I can group them by User Name if it is a process, or Group if a service. Yes I know my OS is old and my memory usage is high. Speaking of memory I have 2 slots total capacity is 16gb. Is it better to use 1 16gb, or 2 8gb sticks?
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Re: Computer Questioin

Postby Burgerman » 28 Mar 2020, 12:07

>>When you look at task manager are you only interested in process or services?

BOTH!

>>What is the difference?

Services are running processes that other things/programs may want or need. Some are essential. Some are irrelivant to YOUR needs. Take a look at them one by one. Services may be say "adobe update service". You dont want that. Adobe takes over your machine with 101 ways to insist you use its update system, including ARM and folders scattered all over the PC in dozens of places. Not limited to the scheduler to run things, the registry to run things, the programs themselves to replace all the garbage that you just removed, try to replace some folders and update systems. So you must delete the contents of these, and make the folder write protected as an administrator. And its a huge fight if you are not fully computer literate. The services can be told to never start. Start time delayed. Or start when needed only. Set them to never start if they LET you.
Do the same with every service you dont want inc the windows ones. For e.g. Do you ever use remote desktop? If not disable that one. Around half of mine are disabled.

Can be tricky. For e.g. Windows wont let you disable any of the metro ap garbage as thats its money-maker. So you need to get a bit more technical... But it can be done. And adobe is the same. They WANT you to be forced into letting adobe make you use their online paid services. I remove all of that sort of garbage from every program. Theres no easy how to, just 30 years of experience!

>>How do you determine which ones to kill?
Because I study what they do, look at dependencies, and years of practice!


>>If it has an obvious Brand name like Adobe or Avasti those are easy. I can group them by User Name if it is a process, or Group if a service. Yes I know my OS is old and my memory usage is high. Speaking of memory I have 2 slots total capacity is 16gb. Is it better to use 1 16gb, or 2 8gb sticks?

Doesent matter. And 16gb is adequate even today. Win 10 needs less than XP. Although I have 32, and my new PC has 64 when I order it. But its overkill. Most will never be used unless movie editing etc.
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Re: Computer Questioin

Postby steves1977uk » 28 Mar 2020, 14:28

Here's a small app that will debloat Win10... https://github.com/mirinsoft/debotnet It has other good featrures too! :thumbup: :ugeek:

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Re: Computer Questioin

Postby expresso » 28 Mar 2020, 16:24

thanks -steve i will check that out -


anything else that can be useful to stop background running jobs - or put them to sleep while not in use ?

avast did have a feature that did that to speed up the system - it just put all things to sleep that are not in use - it was ok - i deleted avast now but in task manager it was a low impact program when i checked
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