Cajun Mobilty Alterrain wheelchair

[Furberger]

Has anyone ever heard of this brand of wheelchair and if so what are your thoughts?

[Burgerman]

Having done a lot of testing and measuring with many chairs I can tell you this.

If we are referring to a skid steer 4x4 chair as seen when I did a quick search it will have some serious issues. Skid steer on a dry grippy surface such as grass, or clean paved surfaces takes many x more amps than it does with 2 drive wheels and 2 casters.

I mean 5 or 10 times more Amps. And the limiting factor here is the power level that you can get from:

a) 2x group 24 lead batteries. They just cannot cope with heavy loads like this for more than a few mins.
b) the max amps level capability of the controller used. This is currently 100 to 120A limit absolute limit. The most the industry offers. And it 'rolls back' fast to a lower level, after a few secs, or as it warms up. Mobility controllers and batteries can only just cope with a normal 'easy to turn' wheelchair with casters.

Remember that to turn on the spot, means making all 4 tyres slide/spin on the spot. Imagine how hard it is to turn your car on the spot. Go outside and push! You cant. This is the problem.

The result of this will be problems turning on the spot. And overheating controller with power reducing still further as you try to make it do as you want when it hasn't got the power. You may need to try to move forwards or backwards to make it turn. And if you turn left/right much during the day, say while washing your car, your batteries will last a few mins rather than hours.

So be forewarned and test very carefully.

[Furberger]

Hi,

Thank you for such a fast reply. My main use for the chair is for going to the beach where I broke my neck 20 years ago. The sand is very soft with deep ruts and

I would need four wheel drive. For example the extreme 8 wheelchair with the tires turning gets stuck in that type of sand. I have not seen anything with two wheel drive that will work either also, I need a tilt and elevating feet for BP issues. The two wheel drive chairs front casters are not high and wide enough for the deep sand.

I'm a quad and can't find anyone near me to build anything.The only reason I looked at that chair was that it would fit in my van and work on the beach.

Do you have ant suggestions? I saw one of the members of the group are making a copy of your BM2 which I would love ,but that will not work on the Beach where I live in New Jersey USA ( Hurricane Sandy hit us there). if I get 6 to 8 miles on the beach I would be happy.
Would it help if I used lithium batteries and swapped out module. What are your thoughts? I'm desperate I need to go there and drive on it.

[Burgerman]

Lithium will help only slightly.
You cant swap out a controller module, because theres no mobility module that has more power (amps). Which is why they don't use one...

So you would have to accept its limitations or forget about the beach. Or buy it, then read and adapt a non mobility controller like the Roboteq to give better performance and possible use lower gearing and higher voltage.


Watch the first 10 mins of this vid and note his control problems. A 4x4 chair or tank chair both have the same exact problem in that they have to skid to steer.
Skid steer is simply too much for a lead battery and for any mobility controller.

There's no FAULT in this video, although he thinks there is. The controller just warms up, and so then rolls back power when trying to turn. Its SUPPOSED to do this to stop itself burning out. And all power is then lost till it cools.
And bigger motors will make no difference at all. I even warned brad (man who makes these) that this would be a big problem when he offered me a free one...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjyRBFUWNes

This is the problem you will have.

[LROBBINS]

As an alternative to 4-wheel drive you might think about making a pair of slip on "sand skis" for the caster wheels. I am hoping to do exactly that for my daughter's FWD chair this summer. It has very heavily loaded rear casters that quickly dig into soft, dry sand, but if I lift the casters, first one then the other, before they get buried down to the axle, the chair can pull through. I'm hoping that if I can get the casters to "float" on the sand, the chair will be able to move albeit slowly.

[Sully]

Ski front castors with partially exposed wheels (for hard surfaces) might just serve you better. Sugar sand is problematic and power draining to say the least.

[Burgerman]

Or add a little cement. Mix. Wait for a few days.

[popschief]

They do it up north with aircraft in the winter on snow. http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/IMG_4592.JPG



bp

[Sully]

Popschief; exactly!

Sugar sand does have similar characteristics as snow.

[Furberger]

Thanks for your input everyone.

[Furberger]

Question: The skid steer is fine if I take wide turns and backup to make a closer turn. Not an issue on beach, but batteries will drain faster.Step by step how could I convert to lithium 36 or 48 volt . If it is 36 volt can I use same control DX2 controller And 90 amp power module? If not where can I have a joystick made and battery Pack?
On another note does anybody know how to convert a footplate to a manual elevate with a lever?

[Burgerman]

Question: The skid steer is fine if I take wide turns and backup to make a closer turn. Not an issue on beach, but batteries will drain faster.

It should be ok in more or less straight lines on a beach, batteries will drain much faster!

Step by step how could I convert to lithium 36 or 48 volt. If it is 36 volt can I use same control DX2 controller And 90 amp power module? If not where can I have a joystick made and battery Pack?

You need a massive lesson in lithium battery technology 109 pags here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1813

And a much more complex understanding of controllers to be able to use a higher voltage robotics controller like the roboteq here 147 pages viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2436

Or buy a 48v controller from bounder at a rather silly $$$ level. I forget the figure but it was eye watering.

[Furberger]

Humbling! Thank you

[Burgerman]

There are hundreds of off road "chairs" and non are any good if they use either lead batteries or mobility controllers. And much worse still if they use tracks or skid steer. Because batteries and controllers struggle as it is in a normal mobility device. It doesn't stop endless people making them and selling them, regardless because mostly they don't understand the problem or care.

And so you are either going to need a lot of money, to buy something that is both powerful and lithium powered or find something with a petrol engine and big tyres. Non of these devices are wheelchairs, they are buggies, scooters, cars, etc. A wheelchair must have casters and be small enough to work indoors without destroying carpets etc.

THESE for eg will do what you want. But use large high power brushless motors, large high voltage lithium batteries, and a one off high power non mobility control system. They are literally 10x the power of and lead/mobility controller device. Because this is whats needed to work properly. You wont like the price.

http://www.derziesel.com/en/konfigurator.php

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Ziesel vids...

[Furberger]

I have last question if I hook up 3 80 amp batteries will I get significant more distance in relation to compensation for the extra weight of the 3rd AGM battery? What brand do yo recommend?

[Burgerman]

No. And you cant. Its a 24v system. You would need 4. And the added weight on an extra 112lb of lead will likely stop it turning altogether.

[TODDLIBEY]

I have never had the X8 stuck in sand. It is made for the beaches. The Cajun is a cheap knock off of the X8. They bought and X8 used second hand and copied anything that wasn't patented then installed smaller motors and cheap parts.
The X8 has been redesigned in the last couple of years. it is very efficient. A friend of mine drove his X8 from Indiana to buffalo NY. over 20+ miles a day on one charge. He is planning a 1,000 mile journey next year.

[Burgerman]

The only issue with those is that they are not powerchairs, but scooters with a joystick. So they get good range and work on sand but dont work indoors. But its an extra outdoor vehicle. By 4x4 powerchair we really mean something that can skid steer so turn in place rather than drive around like a car/scooter. For one reason, I cant swap chairs. Its got to work to drive a van from and on the beach at the other end. And work in the pub, my house, resturant etc.

The X8 has been redesigned in the last couple of years. it is very efficient. A friend of mine drove his X8 from Indiana to buffalo NY. over 20+ miles a day on one charge. He is planning a 1,000 mile journey next year.

At 7mph, that means you drive for under 3 hours and out of power. (3x 7mph = 21 miles). And the deep discharge level soon kills off the batteries.

You might give your freind a link to the forum, because a swap to lithium, in the way many of us do it here, means he will get between 7 or 8 hours driving time instead of under 3. Or 50 miles instead of 20. And a far faster recharge speed. And gain around 5% speed too. Thats got to make sense attempting to go 1000 miles? It also saves approx 65lb weight if you are using grp27/31 lead batteries. So less wasted power on hills etc.