AMD Zen Chip -

[expresso]

Ok i just read a bit about this new Chip - I remember when AMD was good a long time ago - till it woke intel up finally and they lacked behind ever since -

this may be a new change now - - this new chip can give same performance at the least and sometimes better than intels $1,100 Chip - thats not that bad - and keeping it Cooler which has been a issue for AMD in the past -

looks promising and may lower the cost of intel chips - maybe my next build maybe this new Zen chip ?

[Burgerman]

Well you might. But ask yourself this. When was the last time your PC was slow? And if it was was it CPU induced? Because for a decade thats just not been the case. Bus speeds, and hard disk access speed is by far the biggest holdup now. I have my PC setup to save power. Its under-clocked by around 50% and voltage dropped hugely. And I fitted a smaller and more efficient power supply. Can I detect any performance change? Nope!

[expresso]

well for normal use of a computer - nothing heavy graphic intense or HD movies rendering and converting etc, - that takes power - graphics power mostly but CPU power helps - i am not in a rush to build another - i am running pretty nicely with my SSD drive - 4.7 - volts are low - i delidded my chip to change the paste and that made a HUGE improvement in Temps - its liquid cooled also - AIO unit -

i am just thinking ahead - when time comes to make a upgrade - hey if its holding up against a chip 4 times the cost - thats pretty good - if its going to be much cheaper - no word yet on price - i bet its at least half the cost of the intel version or maybe a bit less than half - i wont be surprised if it were that cheap -

next system will use M2 memory for storage right on the MB - that makes a SSD drive feel slow - according to reviews on it - with costs coming down - wont need physical large heavy hard drives in the case - a few of those M2 on the MB - maybe a few SSD for storage or just external for storage -

i wonder if you can delid those chips like the intel chips - i did it to my 3770K - dropped temps instantly 30C during 100% load - under full load - never passes 70C - - OC and higher volts - stays cooler than it was stock -

[Burgerman]

next system will use M2 memory for storage right on the MB - that makes a SSD drive feel slow - according to reviews on it

I am using one in my new laptop. Its a 512gb http://www.computershopper.com/storage/ ... -pro-512gb

Its fast in benchmarks. Remember only the NVMe ones are super fast not all m.2. The fastest hard disk on the planet. But you need special NVMe motherboards to boot from it. This is a 2k laptop. In use this disk doesn't boot SUBSTANTIALLY faster than a normal SSD. About 12 secs. Because booting means thousands of tiny files, and access time is still the limiting factor. Its is stupidly fast though with large files. About 600 to 1200 or higher mb per sec.

I have a Samsung oem 256 M.2 quad lane NVMe one sat on the bench that I don't know what to do with too!

[expresso]

nice - thats goin in my next build - but i dont bother with laptops - my laptop is cheap - as long as it work and i use it to charge with the PL 8 - its really just a backup in case - not to have nothing at all -

too much money if you configure it good to get the best out of it - if you buy one stock from HP - its decent - i rather use the money for the desktop which is used 90% of the time - thats where i want to speed - memory - etc,

have to start from nothing with the next build - and a even bigger case - even though i dont have the room - makes building it SO MUCH easier and keeps cooler - i hate those tight spaces - unless of course its something else

[Gnomatic]

I've been running a Sandy Bridge 2500K @ 4.5GHz since 2011. Its still plenty powerful for most things. Occasionally I'll do some video editing and you can never have CPU horsepower for that stuff. I'm ready to upgrade, mostly because I'm ready for a new mobo chipset . I built one recently for someone else using an NVMe SSD and that thing FLIES.

Samsung's 960 Pro's are pretty great but the EVO version will give close to the same performance for 2/3 the price. I'd also wouldn't mind having USB 3.1 on board.

I'll believe the hype surrounding AMD's Ryzen chips when I see it. They really haven't been relevant since Intel released the Core 2 Duo over a decade ago.

My biggest complaint with my setup surrounds being shackled to a shitty cable internet connection.

[expresso]

true Intel been ahead of the game for a long time - but not cheap - before i went with intel now - i tried AMD again and for some reason - was crashing - running hot etc,

i decided to return everything back to amazon and got intel 3770K - and had been using that since - i opened it up to change the paste inside - best thing i did - dropped it 30C at full load -

with 4.7OC - and yes never enough for the video stuff - i feel slow when do video - not in a rush to upgrade just yet - was alot of work for me to build it - i need help so its working fine -

i would love it if this new Zen does really beat intel or match it for less than half the cost - has to run cool though - or else forget it -

i wonder can you open the AMD chip to change the paste like the intel ?

[Gnomatic]

i opened it up to change the paste inside - best thing i did - dropped it 30C at full load -

Wow. You de-lidded your 3770K? You are more brave than I. But your results show the reward. You are right after Sandy Bridge, Intel started using shitty thermal paste under the heat spreaders that were installed on their chips, and that SEVERELY affected thermal conductivity. But they still had the best game in town.

AMD run hot and more importantly their mobos have lacked the native features on Intel mobo chipsets. We shall see if they turn things around with Ryzen.

[expresso]

i got this chip for the purpose of OC the most i can do with it - 4.7 is the most stable in use all the time - but even with water cooler AIO unit - was hot at full load

i read about this new paste that dropped it down 30C if you take it apart - i watched a few videos - read up on it and one day - i had to take it apart to return the water cooler that went bad - when i got the new one - i had the system out and open -

one night i had a minor incident and hurt my hip leg - alot of pain - i decided to do it and take my mind off the pain - with a razor blade and some time - really wasnt as bad as i though -

i got it open - cleaned it up and added this special paste - forgot the name - cooler something - its like liquid silver looking - very little just a layer and thats it -

amazed that the thing booted up and cpu was fine - then shocked that it actually does work - cools it great - so now my fans are on low or normal - cooler is on silent and under full load - dosnt pass 70C - where before i have hit 100 - during the testing phase with that program that stress tests - forget that name also -

i havnt kept up with it - i got it stable 4.7 and cool - didnt touch it after any more - just once to clean it up inside the fan dust -

[expresso]

i am in no rush for this Zen chip - but if AMD really did make a good intel killer or at least can keep up with a $1000 chip for only $300 - thats not bad -

but like you said - have to wait and see - the next build has to have those M2 memory onboard and SSD only - now i have two WD blacks and one SSD for the system only and its a small one only 120 Gig -

i want to do away with internal heavy hard drives and stick with only those M2 onboard and SSD in the case - unless i can get a system to do at least 5.0 - no rush to upgrade for about the same speed -

not even sure about this 3.1 usb - i am not too impressed with the 3.0 usb - for me its flaky - some thumb drives work off the bat and some dont - some have to reboot to make it show up - sometimes not -

i am sure its my MB drivers etc, also that really dont support Win 10 - it works fine - just 3.0 usb is flaky most times - they did work better under Win 7 and 8 - the usb 3.0

usb 2.0 works fine all the time - just much slower - but then sometimes even the 3.0 isnt fast enough for me - i feel it should be faster -

[expresso]

found a few pics - i wonder now if this is something i have to do all the time with any new intel or AMD chips - i am spoiled now with the speed and temps -

[Burgerman]

Its no problem using super fast hard disk ssd as I am using a "the fastest disk in the world" apparently.

But you still need the old heavy disks for storage. Four of, 4 terabyte WD green ones here. Full. And an old SSD 2nd boot disk backup.

[expresso]

Its no problem using super fast hard disk ssd as I am using a "the fastest disk in the world" apparently.

But you still need the old heavy disks for storage. Four of, 4 terabyte WD green ones here. Full. And an old SSD 2nd boot disk backup.

yes we need the large storage drives for sure - but i will be moving towards using the 4T external drives instead of having them in the case - making it heavy - i want in my next build to Med size tower with enough room for Air movement

watercooling of course - most likely AIO units but larger than what i have now - A strong PSU - MB with the M2 Memory - and by then a SSD will be larger and cheaper to use - - i like there is room to work in the case without all the wiring and hard drives full of cables that i have to hide etc,

i wont be doing it unless my system dies for some reason - at least a few more years before i consider a new one - i want a chip that i can do 5.0 easily - and then OC that - maybe who knows if AMD will wake up with this Zen chip - if it does compare to intels $1000 Chips - intel will have to drop prices and or make even faster chips to stay ahead of the game - so its a win for us either way

i wont mind going with AMD if it can really work and stay cool - about deliding the chip - has anyone done it to a AMD Chip ? when i read about it - its also with the intel chips -- i havnt seen anyone doing it with the AMD chips -

i wonder if its a problem to do AMD over intel

[Gnomatic]

How did you reattach the heat spreader, expresso?

[expresso]

what heat spreader ? you mean the cover on top of the chip - i didnt glue it down or anything - i just placed it on top gently and lowered the handle to lock the chip in its place .


i seen some glue it around the edges - what they used i dont know - lets say i remove the chip now - i lift the level of the MB to remove it -the top part will just come off -

i can clean it and reapply more of that paste i used if i wanted - its been over a year this way and nothing has changed or given me any reason to believe anything could be wrong so i am not touching it

whenever i get around to doing another system - maybe a few years at least - i want things to get faster better making it worth a whole new system or else i feel doing it now isnt going to give me enough of a leap ahead to make a huge difference to justify all that money

the one thing i will invest more in on the next build is the Graphic card - i really dont game so at first i left it and used the on board video from the chip only -

later i added a small card to give me a boast when doing video with DVD Fab - file convertor etc, which helped but its not any high end card -
next time i want to get a good decent high end with as much Cuda Cores i can get - to make it faster when using DVD fab and other graphics etc,

i really dont know much which is good or great etc, - will have to ask around on the Overclock forums - read some reviews and pick one -

i just wanted to keep the case inside as clear of stuff as i can - which is why i didnt get a card at first - keeping it free open area for fan to hit the MB etc,

next system i dont even want hard drives for storage inside the case - just the M2 on the MB - and SSD drives - hopefully prices drop for a 1T SSD by then -

and use external WD 4T drives for storage - those things are great for storage - small and large 4T - easy stick it in a closet or draw

[Gnomatic]

what heat spreader ? you mean the cover on top of the chip - i didnt glue it down or anything - i just placed it on top gently and lowered the handle to lock the chip in its place .

Gotcha. How did you get the spreader off?

I see there are tools to do the delid procedure now. It was pretty rough mod back when I first took a looked at it.

[expresso]

i used a normal Razor blade - the ones they use in those box cutters - working on each corner gently a little at a time - i used a small hammer to knock it in a bit and then wiggle it back and forth sideways holding the razor angled up away from the chip board -

what kind of tools do they have now to do this easier ? is this something that is do able with the AMD chips also - or is just a Intel thing ?

[Gnomatic]

i used a normal Razor blade - the ones they use in those box cutters - working on each corner gently a little at a time - i used a small hammer to knock it in a bit and then wiggle it back and forth sideways holding the razor angled up away from the chip board -

what kind of tools do they have now to do this easier ? is this something that is do able with the AMD chips also - or is just a Intel thing ?

Can't say regarding AMD. But several types out there now for Intel.

http://rockitcool.myshopify.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr3YEaDER-o&t=3s

If you have access to a 3D printer, you can print your own delid tool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1KbeVySldA

[expresso]

nice to see they have a safe tool now - i will get a tool if and when i do my next chip one day - - but have to find one for the specific chip your using - - its not one size fits all i think -

curious to see if doing this to a AMD chip - would give same benefits -

thanks for those links - i like the rocket one best - seems safest - i wouldnt bother trying to glue it back either - you never going to remove it anyway and if you did - or had to change the paste - dont have to do the process again -

that was my thinking back then - i got lucky with the razor - hard enough to take off - not going to glue it after i did all the work - also i really had no idea what to use to glue it back etc, and didnt think about that then -

[steves1977uk]

https://arstechnica.co.uk/gadgets/2017/ ... ease-date/

Another Intel build for me! AMD based systems seem to have too many issues for my liking.

Steve

[expresso]

i guess - i had issues when i tried to go with AMD before i went with the 3770k i have now - i just wonder why they are having a hard time - alot of Gamers with AMD - - i havnt kept up with this since i done mine 4 years ago -

its not even clear to me what are the top chips from either side - - Motherboards - also - they all seem to look good - currently using UD5H - Gigabyte - - one did go bad on me - replaced it under warranty - been fine for the most part -

i goal would be speed - OC - etc, - this time maybe a much better video card - which havnt a clue whats what with those either - unless for some reason any new Chips with Onboard Video can do a decent job enough for me - maybe i consider that again -

i dont really game - but i do alot of DVD FAB - HD Video Files - Blu Rays etc, - converting - ripping - i added a GT750TX i think card after using the 3770K on board video and the card did a better job - faster afterwards - and this was a low end card considering - small compact - about $90 card when i got it - didnt need external power -

at the very least - if AMD catches up some - it can bring the prices down on some intel chips -

what big difference would it be to upgrade now - from my current 3770k chip - can run it at 4.7 - - is it worth a upgrade and to what ? this new Gen 8 intel 6 core ? if price is good maybe - if they can do 5 gig without a struggle -

[expresso]

would delid any new chip i get from the start - now they have tools that do it for you easlier and safter - than my razor blade -

i want speed - but cool also - - maybe a larger case with a large AIO cooler this time - currently using antec 950 - which the older version went bad also on me - replaced free with newer version - so far so good -

trying to get a good cooler thats quiet is hard to do -

[Burgerman]

Not worth the bother today. Any modern CPU is way faster than needed. Memory and bus speeds and graphics speeds, hard disk speeds are all far more limiting. Its like a lawnmower. You can fit a highly tuned high revving motor. It can still only cut the grass as fast as its pushed...

I did some real world benchmark testing on my 2.8ghz CPU, running at 2.4, and at its usual overclocked 4.2ghz. It made almost zero difference to anything. So I UNDER CLOCKED it to 2.4 at its fastest speed-step speed and enabled all the throttling and speed limiting and power saving modes and automatic voltage lowering it can do. Instead of making a noise, its using tons less watts, and runs silently. And you cannot tell any difference in anything you do. Even ripping movies is within 5% of the same benchmarks. The days of overclocking making any real difference is over. The PC is more than adequate for anything you throw at it even if a decade old. Theres still nothing thats really faster than my old i7 after nearly a decade in real terms.

[expresso]

well i get what your saying - modern hardware is Fast in stock form - but what you consider to be no difference or little difference is up to opinion - what may not make a difference to you - may to someone else - i noticed a difference - things load faster - snappy - etc, - doing the ripping and converting - i noticed it also -

its not night and day difference - for the most part - i agree - things are pretty fast decent out of the box without having to tinker with it - but then whats the fun of building one to your liking if you leave it stock - might as well just buy a Dell then - haha

going from on board video to a low end video card made a big difference - and OC the chip helped it along even more - - i decided to actually go back now to 4.2 - volts lower with all the power saving features - reason is just to keep the Cooling Fan a bit lower in speed keeping it very quiet -

i was at a spot where if the Fluid hit 38C - the fan ramped up - it was borderline - when the fluid went to 37.5C or lower - it was quieter which i like now since its pretty quiet in my room and hearing the fan ramp up and down with in a short temp. difference was getting to me -

so i lowered it to keep the fluid lower than 37C which keeps the fan at its lowest point - this is for the Antec 950 cooler - i i have it set to the lowest setting in the software as it is - in the summer with the AC on etc, - dosnt bother me as much -

its like our chairs in a way - you have 6 mph - you like to do 8mph - then you get 8mph - you like to see how 10 feels - etc, - its a hobby if you get into it and nice to get the best speed etc, out of everything you buy - - if your up to doing the work to get it stable etc, - i am not sure i am on the next build - -

with the new M 2 Memory for the boards - SSD - looking forward to a new board when time comes -

[Burgerman]

You will only see a difference on large files. Boot isnt faster, program loading isnt faster. I know, I have one...

SSD faster than hard disk.
Latest SSD faster only on large files...
Quad lane super fast samsung one here (m.2 is a form factor not a hard disk type and not all are fast). Its just the NVMe SSDs that are fast... I have a 512 one here.
Windows boots 1.5 secs faster than an old SSD on a serial bus.

[expresso]

SSD alot faster than hard drive - i been using one on this system first time - my goal is this - simple on the next setup - FAST CPU - OC if i can while keeping it cool - delid is a must if i want to do that - or even if you dont OC -

these new M 2 memory on board is what i would like to use for the OS - and larger SSD drives only - lets say 1T - once costs come down - i plan to not add any Old school hard drives inside the case - and use external only for storage -

but since i have two WD Blacks now - i may keep them inside or put them inside external case and leave outside - i want it simple inside the case - large enough to work with with open space - water cool - most likely AIO unit - larger one than mines now - 240 or 280MM - larger fans - quiet - - a few fans inside - thats it -

if the video on the chip is good enough - may even try it again next time - if not then i get a upgraded Card - but i hate to open it again after i am done - or may leave it on my desk opened for a month to OC first - once all done - settle it where it will be under my desk and never want to open it again once a year to clean the dust on the fans -

i am in no rush to do it - i just want to make sure when i do it - it will be a jump from what i use now - - dont want to make a small improvement - not worth it for me - unless of course it just dies - who knows how long it will last

i was running 4.7 1350V for 4 years about now - -

what big improvements have been made over the 3770K - ?

[Burgerman]

Non that you will ever notice on anything other than benchmark numbers for a decade.

[steves1977uk]

I never OC my CPU as it's fast enough at stock speeds for me. My CPU temp usually sits around 26c when just web browsing and in the mid 60c's when ripping blu-rays. I'm also a gamer as well, especially playing the Thief trilogy series and it's fan missions.

Steve

[expresso]

I never OC my CPU as it's fast enough at stock speeds for me. My CPU temp usually sits around 26c when just web browsing and in the mid 60c's when ripping blu-rays. I'm also a gamer as well, especially playing the Thief trilogy series and it's fan missions.

Steve

i guess if it works for you - why bother - you can bump that up to 4.2 steady and still leave everything else stock settings - you dont have to add more volts etc, - if you have that settings on AUTO - it will work fine -

once you try for more than 4.2 gig - then its best to manual adjust volts - it will actually be lower with a fixed volt as opposed to leaving it on AUTO - but at 4.2 gig - you can see a boost with games - and not have to touch any other settings

i dont game - maybe i am missing out - i may try it on TV one day - i think its the Xbox i would need ?

[Gnomatic]

With gaming,, GPU's are the limitation, or bottleneck, not CPU's. Video editing, different story.

But modern CPU's are fast regardless. I'm more interested in upgrading my 4.5GHz sandybridge for motherboard features than lack of CPU power.