AMD Zen Chip -

If you want to say something that doesent fit anywhere else!
MAIN WEBSITE: http://www.wheelchairdriver.com

Re: AMD Zen Chip -

Postby Gnomatic » 19 Mar 2017, 17:36

This test was run using a single standard SATA SSD.

Image

While Handbreak is not infinitely threaded and really can't make use of 10 core/20 threads, it still will take advantage of a CPU with more cores than 7700K has to offer, even a 7000K overclocked in the 5GHz range
Gnomatic
 
Posts: 2080
Joined: 24 Aug 2012, 17:18
Location: Ohio USA

Re: AMD Zen Chip -

Postby Burgerman » 19 Mar 2017, 17:46

According to that a 5.1ghz 7700k as I am running, is around 15% slower than a 1k pound chip, doing this one thing, and in nearly every other real world benchmark the 7700k murders it. And for desktop use, and games too. So overall, its not even a close match. And the AMD one is slower by a fair bit. Even the 1800x is not a match for intels multi core workstation/server chip.

So for 99 percent of the time a fast 4 core 8 thread chip is way faster. Disk speed, and memory is a factor too. So unless you run a big complex server setup, its worse generally. Other than you save 1 minute out of 15 with handbrake alone? How much of a working week do you spend doing that?
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: AMD Zen Chip -

Postby expresso » 19 Mar 2017, 17:53

i am actually ripping all my DVDs i have which are over a thousand easy - got tired of keeping them in the closet - i rip them - then use handbrake to convert them to MKV and DVDFAB to merge it and make one file that works - giving away all my Disks - need room in my closet same with Blu ray disks - some i may keep depends on the movie -

this will take me a year :D

DVDFAB can do both - convert and merge - but many times i find it has issues with certain files - which handbrake dosnt - so am i forced to do it this way alot of the times
Quickie 636 - 230ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 11916
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17

Re: AMD Zen Chip -

Postby Burgerman » 19 Mar 2017, 17:57

Well don't watch it rip/transcode, line them up, leave it to batch process while you eat/sleep/go out for the day. As the extra few percent shaved off with more cores wont make any real difference. You still get to watch.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: AMD Zen Chip -

Postby Gnomatic » 19 Mar 2017, 18:03

Burgerman wrote:According to that a 5.1ghz 7700k as I am running, is around 15% slower than a 1k pound chip, doing this one thing, and in nearly every other real world benchmark the 7700k murders it. And for desktop use, and games too. So overall, its not even a close match. And the AMD one is slower by a fair bit. Even the 1800x is not a match for intels multi core workstation/server chip.

So for 99 percent of the time a fast 4 core 8 thread chip is way faster. Disk speed, and memory is a factor too. So unless you run a big complex server setup, its worse generally. Other than you save 1 minute out of 15 with handbrake alone? How much of a working week do you spend doing that?


As I said, a single instance of Handbreak cannot make use of 10C/20T, yet a 6950x still beats a much higher clocked and newer architecture 7700K.

And, in terms of performance per watt AND performance per dollar, Ryzen 1800X crushes Intel's Broadwell-E 6 and 8 core processors in workstation apps that take advantage of more cores than 4, while being more that sufficient for gaming..
Gnomatic
 
Posts: 2080
Joined: 24 Aug 2012, 17:18
Location: Ohio USA

Re: AMD Zen Chip -

Postby Burgerman » 19 Mar 2017, 18:09

Oh there I agree. But for home use that rizen (any) still doesn't match the 7700k for desktop/game/most uses at an extra 280 dollars for the 1800x.

The real issue here isn't that the AMD Rizen is particularly good, its not. But that Intel are charging 1k plus for any chip with 4 cores plus. Its way overpriced for its performance level. For most users, more than 4 cores brings ever diminishing returns. And bumping up speed helps as much. Their own 300 dollar 7700k cheapie chip out performs their 1k plus chip for almost all purposes/uses by a quite large margin. And the 1k plus one only beats it in heavily multithreaded aps and benchmarks.

For eg, for my home use, I would see no actual benefit from a 10 core chip! And its slower so in fact performance would be worse most of the time. Of course most of this is irrelevant as all these CPUs are way better than we need.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: AMD Zen Chip -

Postby Gnomatic » 19 Mar 2017, 18:39

You are right, all are very powerful chips, more than an average user needs. Nothing wrong with a 7700k.

Things are going to get interesting though. Intel is getting ready to update their 6, 8, and 10 core chips to a more current architecture. So that will eat into AMD's value proposition somewhat. However, around the time, it is widely expected AMD will release a 16C/32T Ryzen chip for $1,000.

And, on Aprill 11th, AMD will launch its Ryzen 5 line. One of the Ryzen 5's will be a 4C/8T chip for $169.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11202/amd ... april-11th
Gnomatic
 
Posts: 2080
Joined: 24 Aug 2012, 17:18
Location: Ohio USA

Re: AMD Zen Chip -

Postby Burgerman » 19 Mar 2017, 18:56

AMD will release a 16C/32T Ryzen chip for $1,000.


But ever increasing cores give ever decreasing gains. Unless on a specifically written bit of software. So it wont be much benefit.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: AMD Zen Chip -

Postby Gnomatic » 19 Mar 2017, 19:06

[quote="Burgerman"]

But in those apps that do, it's almost certainly going to outperform Intel's upcoming chips at that price point. Anyone looking to buy Intel's 8 core chip is likely using those types of workstation apps. And it stands to reason, to that audience, a 16C/32T Ryzen for the same price might be very appealing.
Gnomatic
 
Posts: 2080
Joined: 24 Aug 2012, 17:18
Location: Ohio USA

Re: AMD Zen Chip -

Postby expresso » 19 Mar 2017, 19:16

Burgerman wrote:Well don't watch it rip/transcode, line them up, leave it to batch process while you eat/sleep/go out for the day. As the extra few percent shaved off with more cores wont make any real difference. You still get to watch.


i ran into alot of issues - so i do one at a time to make sure - my panasonic player if flaky what will work off the USB drive - MKV works BUT - depends what program does the converting - i dont know why - ALL i know if i use DVDFAB MKV - that seems to work 99% of the times -

but alot of times - DVD FAB hangs up on certain files - so i used handbrake for some - then ran them on DVDFAB to merge them etc, - but now i am seeing the picture being changed during this conversion - Picture Size etc, -

now i am using AVC - which seems to work fine and merges them also - BUT again that end file MKV from using AVC - dosnt show up on my player - but if i run that same file thru DVDFAB - it works after -

too much to figure out why - so since its too cold to ride - i sit on my desk - have my tea and crackers - doing this - browsing - etc, - watching TV same time or some pandora - and wait for warmer days :D

No rush to get this done - and it if becomes a problem for real - i just wont do it - give away the disks as they are and move on - we can always stream them anyway - i done this in the past for my father with dvds - to watch etc, -
now i got him to use the USB stick also and do it for him also this way - his player panasonic also and finicky which formats it plays like mines etc,
Quickie 636 - 230ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 11916
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17

Re: AMD Zen Chip -

Postby Burgerman » 19 Mar 2017, 19:21

Instead, what would be better is board that can take 4 of the 7700k CPU chips...
All that silly speed, on 16 cores/32 threads, and the same total cost.

Had a dual AMD board back in the day when we had single CPU processors. Worked very well. On some apps. Again on most others no gain.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: AMD Zen Chip -

Postby Gnomatic » 19 Mar 2017, 20:46

Burgerman wrote:Instead, what would be better is board that can take 4 of the 7700k CPU chips...


Doesn't exist. The closest thing to a 7700k would be would be Skylake based Xeon E3-1270 v5. And the 1 in the 1270 means Intel only supports one socket per motherboard supporting chipset.
Gnomatic
 
Posts: 2080
Joined: 24 Aug 2012, 17:18
Location: Ohio USA

Re: AMD Zen Chip -

Postby Burgerman » 21 Mar 2017, 18:47

User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: AMD Zen Chip -

Postby Gnomatic » 21 Mar 2017, 23:04

That's all fine and good the site itself is ranking those CPU's with games and Average Joe PC users in mind.

There is a place for more cores/threads in the CPU market. If you run apps that are heavily threaded, this is what you want. If you're just an average Joe or a gamer, that's not as important as clock speed.
Gnomatic
 
Posts: 2080
Joined: 24 Aug 2012, 17:18
Location: Ohio USA

Re: AMD Zen Chip -

Postby Burgerman » 21 Mar 2017, 23:45

http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/3181126
Mine, 300 pounds cheaper than Ryzen

http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/AMD-Ryzen- ... ating/3916
The 1800x Ryzen. Marks here averaged for gaming, desktop and for heavy multi-threaded workstation as percentage over many builds.

Its not a small difference.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: AMD Zen Chip -

Postby Burgerman » 21 Mar 2017, 23:50

And compared by price...
http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AM ... 3917vs3647

You have to compare to 1700.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: AMD Zen Chip -

Postby Gnomatic » 23 Mar 2017, 01:12

Just depends on the task or app you are using. If you are a gamer, or just an average user, the 7700K is a better performer and better value than the 1800X. But that's not really an apples to apples comparison.

Compared to the 6900K and 6950X, the 1800X is in some cases a better performer and in all cases a better value, while being more efficient. As I've said many times, just depends if the app you're using or task you're performing can take advantage of the extra cores/threads. As I mentioned before, if you were to import a 3D .stl file into Solidworks, ever core will be slammed. SW essentially has to "redraw" the object in its own format. Your 4, 6, or 8 core CPU will be busy for hours. Hell, even if you had one of AMD's upcoming 32 core 64 thread Zen-based server chips(Naples), you'd still slam all the cores doing that.

Image
Gnomatic
 
Posts: 2080
Joined: 24 Aug 2012, 17:18
Location: Ohio USA

Re: AMD Zen Chip -

Postby Burgerman » 23 Mar 2017, 01:17

So if you do that, go to the pub, see what it did later? Everything else is faster with a 7700k?

:roll:
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: AMD Zen Chip -

Postby Gnomatic » 23 Mar 2017, 01:22

Biggest advantage of 7700K: More time at the pub! :lol:
Gnomatic
 
Posts: 2080
Joined: 24 Aug 2012, 17:18
Location: Ohio USA

Re: AMD Zen Chip -

Postby Burgerman » 23 Mar 2017, 01:44

Thats a good thing though right?

:lol:

OK in the last benchmark I tested it, (CPU-Z) it also stuffs everything...

It stuffs everything by miles on single, 2, 3, 4, or 5 , and even 6 thread stuff.

The only time it loses is when we choose 8 threads, and compare it to a 10 core 20 thread intel $$$$ cpu! And AMDs Ryzen isnt even in it.

Here. (And even then on this rather unusual special task/benchmark not by much! I would still be leaving it to go while in the pub.) Everything else it just murders it.
Attachments
Image1.jpg
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: AMD Zen Chip -

Postby Burgerman » 23 Mar 2017, 01:52

8 core 16 threads, similar.
6 core 12 threads?

On a specific 8 thread task, benchmark.
Attachments
Image1.jpg
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: AMD Zen Chip -

Postby Gnomatic » 23 Mar 2017, 02:08

Burgerman wrote:Thats a good thing though right?

:lol:


Not complaining! ;)
Gnomatic
 
Posts: 2080
Joined: 24 Aug 2012, 17:18
Location: Ohio USA

Re: AMD Zen Chip -

Postby Gnomatic » 23 Mar 2017, 02:11

Burgerman wrote:8 core 16 threads, similar.
6 core 12 threads?

On a specific 8 thread task, benchmark.


We can cherry pic benchmarks all day, as well as comparing overclocked CPU's against other stock ones.
Gnomatic
 
Posts: 2080
Joined: 24 Aug 2012, 17:18
Location: Ohio USA

Re: AMD Zen Chip -

Postby Burgerman » 23 Mar 2017, 02:47

Deduct 10 percent. Changes nothing of consequence.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: AMD Zen Chip -

Postby Gnomatic » 31 May 2017, 23:21

Intel answers AMD

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/05 ... eads-2000/

Image

TDP is still on the high side comparatively, but the i7-7830X looks like a pretty good.
Gnomatic
 
Posts: 2080
Joined: 24 Aug 2012, 17:18
Location: Ohio USA

Re: AMD Zen Chip -

Postby expresso » 31 May 2017, 23:35

yeah i recently seen this also - - but the cost is still a factor and heat - but i like it
Quickie 636 - 230ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 11916
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17

Re: AMD Zen Chip -

Postby steves1977uk » 31 May 2017, 23:48

The 18-core/36-threads CPU looks a beast! Intel needs to drop their prices by 20% to be competitive with AMD... Good to see AMD making Intel sweat! :D

Steve
User avatar
steves1977uk
 
Posts: 4318
Joined: 20 Oct 2011, 21:47
Location: Wells next the Sea, Norfolk, UK

Re: AMD Zen Chip -

Postby Burgerman » 01 Jun 2017, 01:50

For certain specific purposes. For us its pretty pointless and wont change much. 2 cores is about 30% better than 1. For most of the stuff we do. 4 offers even less gain over 2. And on we go. So by the time we get to that many cores, I suspect it will be barely any better than 4 or 6. Other than in some oddball one off programmes and in synthetic testing. And bragging rights! But it cant hurt. Competition is always good.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: AMD Zen Chip -

Postby expresso » 01 Jun 2017, 02:00

if getting one today - the i7 10 core model would be about right :mrgreen:
Quickie 636 - 230ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 11916
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17

Re: AMD Zen Chip -

Postby Burgerman » 01 Jun 2017, 02:11

If the same price as equally fast 4 core yes. Otherwise I wouldn't bother. The difference would never be seen in normal use. Be better to spend any extra on better memory, or faster disks. Or better monitor!

Cooking...
Cores, esp multi hyper threaded ones, are a bit like extra rings on your cooker. You could theoretically cook with 10 pans at once. Or 20 if you have hyper-threading on your cooker. But seldom do if ever. So 4 is enough! One is mostly enough. Esp if you hyper-thread them! Not every pan cooks at the same speed. So with 4 rings you can shuffle them all about and use some rings for other pans. But 16 (or hyper-threaded 32) rings? You can say its useful, but in reality you wont ever cook a meal any faster. Because non of the meals you can eat, or cookbooks are written to take advantage of that many rings! Unless you run a busy restaurant. With many chefs.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

PreviousNext

Return to Anything

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 91 guests

cron

 

  eXTReMe Tracker