Through floor lit

[redandwhite]

Hi All,

I have just been reading Marks thread re smaller F55 and he mentioned the difficulties reversing out of a thro floor lift.

I currently live in a 200 year old house, luckily with 2 living rooms so I can use one as a bedroom, but I have no access upstairs.

Unfortuneately due to the layout and different floor levels it is not possible to fit a lift. There is however a strip of land to the side on which we can build a small house, the planners won't allow a bungalow as thet say "its out of character with the surrounding properties."

I am quite keen to build this house as it could be more tailored to my needs and will need less maintenance, which I now have to pay to have done rather than do it myself (ouch !).

My dilemma is that it would not be big enough to have a downstairs bedroom so I would have to be totally reliant on a thro floor lift.

My concerns with this are;
1) how practicle are they
2) how reliable are they
3) what happens if there is a power cut as we get several every year
4)what would happen in the event of a fire in the night burning out the electrics
5)several times this year I have been taken to hospital by ambulance. To do this I they have used a stretcher which obviously would not fit in the lift, but to fit the lift and staircase in the stairs would need to have a turn at the top and bottom and I am not sure if a strecher would be able to negotiate these turns.

Has anybody experienced any of these concerns or have any advice to offer.

Thanks
Colin

[Burgerman]

Not much experience with lifts, but in that situation most have the ability of either battery backup (down only) or can be lowered manually or hydralically. Just like van lifts, etc. And you could always have a generator ready to auto start in the garage too in the event of a power cut. Or charged back up batteries and an inverter. I do this at home now. All my old powerchair batteries are kept on float, permenantly. Outside. So they can be used with an inverter for power.

[Martin O Refurbisher]

I think Burgerman has pretty much said it all.

I have clients with these lifts, and they don't seem to experience any problems, beyond the obvious size problems - an evac chair can be used instead of a stretcher of course.

http://www.evac-chair.co.uk/

Best,

Martin

[redandwhite]

Thanks for the replies BM and Martin,

Martin are you suggesting that blue light ambulances carry these or that I should buy my own?

Colin

[Martin O Refurbisher]

Colin,
I understand that all blue light AMBS carry them - they are standard issue for removing patients from blocks of flats etc. - East to check - visit any A&E and ask - they will probably show you one. They seem to cost c £500 - £1500 new.

We were in Florida on our 1st floor in an apartment, US = 2nd Floor), and when my other half had an asmatic attack, she needed to be carted off, they used one - first time I saw it in action!

Best,

Martin

[redandwhite]

Thanks Martin,

just been to hospital today for a scan but our £65M hospital, brand new in year 2000, no longer has an A&E dept, NHS cutbacks!
I looked out for any ambulance staff to ask but the place was like a ghost town.

It will be good news if they do carry them as it is one concern I have no control over, even if I had my own I doubt they would be allowed to use it due to Health and Safety.

Colin

[Martin O Refurbisher]

Our local AMBs have parking spots where they wait, so are accessible for a chat at times. Otherwise, a mobile paramedic, St. John's or the Red Cross should also be able to advise.

I agree that unless yours was one of theirs (perhaps provided by them?), the likelhood of the safety wallahs allowing their use is negligible.

Best,

Martin

[Martin O Refurbisher]

see:

http://www.nice.org.uk/nicemedia/docume ... amples.pdf

It gives an idea of what we face in getting the system to flex enough to meet actual, predictable needs!

All PCTs seem to have mirrored this approach.

Best,

Martin

[Burgerman]

This kind of junk is where all the common sense and money goes.

[Ashley G]

Colin,

If it is any comfort to you to know, those litle chairs (often called "Transfer Chairs" by ambulance staff) are standard equipment on most UK Ambulances, not just the blue light ones.

They are, of course, horribly uncomfortable but they do their job. Some ambulance crews are reluctant to use them (they are secured in all sorts of odd locations in the vehicles) but they are there when needed.

That information was gleaned a short time ago, when I was using Ambulance Transport, so I'm confident it's still current.

That said, it seems to me these days that if ambulance crew need to lift anything heavier than their coffee flasks, and if they can get away with it, they send for the Fire Service to lift it for them ....

[Martin O Refurbisher]

If you are designing a house from scratch, incorporating a lift, but using a staircase for emergency evac, then I think that it is important you consult the Ambulance service as to the size and style of the staircase. My knowledge is inadequate to comment, beyond stressing the importance of good design fit for purpose.

Best,

Martin

[redandwhite]

Thank you Ashley and Martin,

There are so many things to think about when disabled, it is so much easier being able bodied.

The plans are already drawn and passed by the planners, with a lift for me and the staircase for others. I never gave a thought to having to be carried out by stretcher until 2-3 weeks ago when it happened.

It will be difficult now to change to a straight staircase with a straight run at the top and bottom and fit the lift shaft while retaining a suitable layout upstairs and down.

The original plan was to build a bungalow but the planners wouldn't allow it. It makes me think it will be easier to not bother with the new build and stay in our current house, plus I can then keep my double garage whereas the new build would only have a single one.

Mmm Head scratching time me thinks.

Thank you for all your thoughts.
Colin

[Mark]

Colin,

Sorry I haven't had time to reply before but here are my thoughts after just over three years with the lift.
Your Quote:
My concerns with this are;
1) how practicle are they
2) how reliable are they
3) what happens if there is a power cut as we get several every year
4)what would happen in the event of a fire in the night burning out the electrics

1. Very practical and very useful to everyone, not just the wheelchair user. Stairlifts are no good for a w/c user because you need two wheelchairs - one on each floor, plus two transfers each time. Our lift gets used all the time - luggage, hoover, filing cabinet, other furniture. Sometimes we wonder how people manage without a lift.
I use a manual chair in the house at present, and that is no problem. However, I can't use the F55 in the lift because when reversing out, the castors swing round and jam on the lift sides - so measure the width of your chair with both castors projecting out on opposite sides.

2. A few teething problems in first year and now reliable. Should be serviced every year and if you can't do this yourself, ask about cost of a maintenance contract. After convincing the manufacture that I was bright enough to service the lift, they agreed to let me go on their service course. In the end, possibly because they didn't want me in a wheelchair around their workshop, they actually came to my house, and we did the service course on my own lift. After this, they are happy to supply me with spares and tech support. Fortunately not needed either since.

3 and 4. My lift all works on 12V with a battery backed-up supply (12V 7Ah lead-acid sealed alarm-type battery). The mains power is only used to drive the hydaulic pump, so if the power goes off, all the lights and controls and the power door work, but you can only go down. If you get a serious fault and the system trips out, then the lift can be lowered by someone pressing a pressure release switch (mechanical) on the power pack box and this lowers the lift slowly but gently. Door can be manually opened if necessary. This would still work if a fire burnt out the electrics, but since it is all low voltage and well-designed is unlikely.

There are a number of lift manufactures to choose from. If you go to the Naidex exhibition at the NEC in April, you will see the lifts there in the flesh and can drive your wheelchair in and out of them. That's what I did to choose. When I chose there was Wessex, Pollock, and Terrys there with lifts. Not seen a list for this year's Naidex yet, but I think a new company, "Stiltz" will be demonstrating their new lift too.

I've given a presentation "Inspirational Housing Design for Easy (wheelchair) living" at Naidex NEC for the past two years but they haven't asked me this year (perhaps I'm too expensive). This explains how we did something similar to you, except we bulldozed our old house first. We wanted a bungalow, but couldn't afford the cost of the land footprint, so we've got a house with a through-floor lift. We designed it so that one of the downstairs rooms, which has a wetroom off, can double as a bedroom if the lift should seriously fail. It is normally used as my wife's (large) study and exercise room.

If you want to come and look at our house before you get too far down the process, you are welcome. We live in Derby. Google "The Tiger Moth Man" and you'll find my details.

Hope this helps,

Mark

[redandwhite]

Hi Mark

Thank you for the reply, it is very informative and reassuring. It is also very kind of you to invite me to visit your house, which I think would be very helpful, unfortuneatly at the moment I am recovering from a pressure sore so can only be up for up to 4 hours at the moment. It will probably be a couple of months before I can be up long enough, unless the skin breaks down again.

I may contact you then to see if it is still ok with you.

I am now having second thoughts and may not bother with the build, as we have a ground floor bedroom with ensuite here but it just frustrates me that I cannot access the upstairs. We are very happy here and my wife does not want to move, even though it will just be into our garden. The problem is I cannot see how we can fit a lift that is in the right place for both floors, plus the upstairs has different levels and if ramps were used to overcome this they would block access elsewhere.

However with the new build there would not be room for that back up bedroom downstairs so it worries me that in the event of a lift failure, particularly if there was a back order issue with the parts I could be stuck downstairs without a bedroom. I still have the issue of the staircase with the turn at the top and bottom to resolve. Do your stairs have a turn or they straight?

The easest solution is to do nothing, but I must admit I think it is more the thought of doing the project that drives me rather than the end product.

Colin

[Martin O Refurbisher]

Aside for Mark:
I love the Tiger Moth - I last flew in one at RAF Halton in June 09 - craned into and out of it!
I'm ex ATC, Gliding, RAF Tech training instructor, PPL, etc.

Best,

Martin

[Mark]

Glad you enjoyed your flight Martin. I didn't know they had the hoist at Halton in 09. I was there last year and a number of my friends got hoisted into the Tiger. Still trying to get a contract for this season. Last company I worked for (6 seasons) went bust. Unfortunately, you don't go to the top of the list when you turn up for a pilot's job in a wheelchair. No problem with people who know me, but harder when it's a company who don't. With callipers on both legs, I can get into a Tiger Moth unaided, but its the wheelchair that frightens the passengers; so we don't let them see me get in or out.

[Martin O Refurbisher]

Mark, Sounds like we both bounce!

I was in a light aircraft crash (Bembridge 1993) then a scooter crash in 2003, so walking / lifting are no longer my strong points!

Best,

Martin