I voted leave part 2

[Scooterman]

It is working Its slow But come the next erection you will see it work Its already working in that we had a referendum. We got to choose. All that has to happen now is those polititians in power either do as we told them or that they get to lose 95k plus car, house, expenses a year in the next election. And they will do one or the other.

And farage appeared, and HIS results in eu vote has already held their feet to the fire and concentrated their opinions over what should be done...

Dont worry. It works. They are just slow to figure out that the peoples will and vote was more important that the 80% remainers bias in parliments own ideas. As they will soon find out. Mine is already worried. Has just recently voted against the labour whip for 2 votes on a 2nd referendum. Why? Big house to lose... She already blew it, she is out at the next erection. She is now panicking. She igored the will of the 73% leave town.

Was that intentional or a typo?

[wheelie junkie]

Farage isn't the solution to our political problems, he has no idea of what to do other than get out. Our representative democracy has been around for 100's of years and in a rut, same public school/university clowns running the show with no accountability, they can ignore what the public want yet still get re-elected. We need direct democracy on important issues and more control of our representatives, manifesto's should be more than political statements which aren't adhered to, they should be binding so parties have to be realistic. It is time to change and have more control, you can moan about the EU dictating but we blindly accept whatever our government does including things like Blair deceiving parliament and taking us into a war. The system is screwed and needs fixing. In/out of the EU just distracts from the real changes needed.

Hopefully all the problems with trying to leave will destroy the Tories but I am still worried about what replaces them.

[Burgerman]

Farage isn't the solution to our political problems, he has no idea of what to do other than get out.

And that all he has to do.

EVERYTHING else is very much secondary. And its all I care about right now. Along with all the others that will vote for him. Wait and see.

All the other bullshit/scare stories/details and stuff you remainers get hung up on doesent matter one bit until the primary objective is now done. We are all sick to death of all the excuses and so called problems and the fact that the elites think they know better. If fact they are stupid. And will soon find out that we dont like them.

There comes a time... And its here.

[Burgerman]

:lol:
Was that intentional or a typo?

Yes I always type erection as its funnier.

[Burgerman]

Right then. All exactly as I predicted. The tory members are given the worst two leavers to choose from. Those that ACTUALLY WANTED to leave, mcvey and raab are removed already.

We are left with boris the one that voted for mays surrender document and who hasnt a clue. And remain voting Jeremy cunt. Just four days after our historic vote to leave the European Union, Remainer Jeremy Cunt was already backing staying in the Single Market, compromising on Free Movement and calling for a second referendum. And he thinks he deserves to be the first leader of Brexit Britain?

Roll on The Brexit Party.

[wheelie junkie]

Inevitable because it is how the system works, Eton/Oxford and into politics, rarely ever do a real job although give Hunt some respect as he has successfully started and made a success of a business. The system is what needs to change, the Brexit party is a minor inconvenience to the system, once we are out normal service will resume.

Despite the current fiasco people still don't understand that we have as little control over our government as we do the EU and we should be focused on changing that not worrying about the EU which has little direct impact on our lives. It is neither here or there if we leave today or in 3 years. Getting rid of the current political system would have an impact, giving control to the public, directing the direction. Instead we sit and watch as important things like the social care green paper gets delayed 5 times whilst the clowns fight amongst themselves.

The more I see of the Brexit fiasco the more I realise just how undemocratic our democracy is, 160,000 Conservative members electing our next PM without any other public involvement, you couldn't make it up.

[Burgerman]

To be fair they are the member of the party in power that we VOTED for. We didnt only vote on a person but on a manu=ifesto, that included LEAVE no deal if no good deal 4 Months ago.

And if boris doesent do that, then he too will be out. And brexit party in. So I disagree that theres no control. Unlike the junker replacement being done as we speak. And the EU control every part of our lives.

[wheelie junkie]

It comes back to the system, manifesto's are just words, non binding they should have to carry out what they get elected on. We vote on the promises they make and can kick them out for another party to do the same for the next 5 years and so it goes on. The system needs to change, if we have representative democracy they should be tied to the promises they make to get our vote and accountable if it goes wrong. Brexit is a clear example of why this needs doing now.

The EU has little direct impact on my life and what it does I'm not concerned about other than losing the most important thing, the ECHR and ECJ, clause 8 of ECHR stops the government or local CCG moving me from my home into a care home because it is cheaper. Continuing Health Care is under pressure and CCG's have already started looking at warehousing seriously disabled in care homes and human rights lawyers will use Clause 8 to prevent it. Until we exit then we are screwed. May had wanted rid but back tracked who knows what Bojo will do. There again, the vote was to leave the EU not Council of Europe which we have been a member of since the late 40's and should still be a member of.

[Burgerman]

The EU has little direct impact on my life

It affects everything. Business, even VAT, and so many other things I do know where to begin!

and what it does I'm not concerned about other than losing the most important thing, the ECHR and ECJ, clause 8 of ECHR stops the government or local CCG moving me from my home into a care home because it is cheaper.

You love all your EU initials... Any gov that tried that in todays world would be for the high jump. Look what happened when they suggested that dimentia tax... You overly stress about things. In any case much of those things you like, were put in place BECAUSE of the UK suggestion and votes in the EU.

OUT first. Then WE can decide what we want to do with our own country. Not some damned foreigner in belgium whos name we dont know that we never voted for. I and the majority, voted to take our country back. Then WE can worry about all the minutia. But it will be for US to decide.

[wheelie junkie]

Obviously the EU influences but I am not bothered, if it wasn't them it'll be WTO or ISO or some other body. I just don't bother about which one.

You obviously don't rely upon CHC, if you did you would know that it is already happening, I get reviewed every year and if I need any changes to my support package they always get quotes from care providers and a care home. Luckily being unable to breathe not many care homes want me Unlike dementia tax it has already started, unseen and not widely reported but CCG'Ss have started rewriting the national framework, taking NHS policy and rewriting to include cost. https://www.hsj.co.uk/quality-and-perfo ... 41.article or https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/ ... e-14435599 just 2 of the reporting on it. No public outcry and there won't be as the CCG's will just claim that they are saving money for essential services. Presented in the right way by them no-one will support us. Then at least I have the option just to end it, vent switched off and out of it, thousands won't have that option and will end up imprisoned away from their family.

It will be out first as political change won't happen, we'll take back control and give it to the same clowns and wonder why nothing has changed, it doesn't matter whether it is Westminster or Brussels we'll still be governed by clowns who do what they want.

[Burgerman]

Obviously the EU influences but I am not bothered, if it wasn't them it'll be WTO or ISO or some other body. I just don't bother about which one.

You are comparing a political big brother and its millions of rules and regulations about our lives to a TRADE organization/deal.

It will be out first as political change won't happen, we'll take back control and give it to the same clowns and wonder why nothing has changed, it doesn't matter whether it is Westminster or Brussels we'll still be governed by clowns who do what they want.

But they will be OUR clowns. And they can do what is best for the UK, as WE decide. Rather than being tol what to do by a bunch of foreign socialist dictators. And OUR clowns that we can through our system hire or fire based on promises and pewrformance. Right now, another MP just got fired for expenses fiddling. A conservative. So now we get a chance to kick the conservatives for NOT LEAVING. And vote in Farages candidate. Or whoever we want.

Chris Davies has been ousted as an MP by his constituents.

One in five voters in Brecon and Radnorshire signed a petition demanding an election to choose a new MP.

He is only the first MP in Wales and the third ever to face a "recall petition" - a formal process through which voters get to choose if an MP convicted of an offence stays in office.

It comes after the Conservative, who represents Brecon and Radnorshire, admitted that he had submitted two false expenses invoices and was convicted of a criminal offence.

The petition was open for the public to sign since since May 9.

More than 10,000 people signed the petition - 19% of the electorate in the constituency.

That is nearly twice as many as needed to sign the petition (10%) for a by-election to be held.

[wheelie junkie]

I'm comparing part of why people want out, too many rules and regulations with the organisations that will replace them which have almost identical rules. Could have thrown in the UN who define our international aid budget %, NATO who define our defence spending % etc etc. We are always going to have to comply with rules over which we have little control unless you want isolation. You are deluded if you think that you can in any way change that, getting out of the EU definitely isn't going to do it.

Our clowns will have less control, for example we get to make a reasonable amount of control on EU standards, a significant one of 28 ,go to WTO/ISO and our voice is hardly heard so we have less control. As Brexit clearly demonstrates we have no control over MP's, we might be able to get rid of a few when the next election comes around or try and get a few out using the recall petition if they get convicted of an offence. Unfortunately by the time of the next election we'll be out and people will have forgotten about what their MP did and will be back to voting on non binding manifesto's, normal service will resume. Even worse we'll have a Corbyn led government and you can forget having any way to influence that but he'll have more power to f'ck things up. Power needs to be in the hands of the people that is the biggest change we can make.

[Burgerman]

I'm comparing part of why people want out, too many rules and regulations with the organisations that will replace them which have almost identical rules.

Lets see.
Just 1 item - the oft quoted Pillows...
EU 109 (or 113 cushions) rules to comply with including expensive testing and many legal representitives and insurers to write it all up and protect the manufacturer from EU retribution in the event that any of it is wrong. And another 9 for the pillow case!

WTO. Non specifically for pillows or cushions. And very few for "soft furnishings" other than fire safety ones (2) and chemical toxicity (3).

So as a small business making pillows I can manufacture and sell them worldwide easily without a budget of 5 digits to test and certify everything and insure against liability to comply with the EU regulations. Thats great for business and for small businesses specifically. Global and huge businesses have armies of people on the payroll to deal with all this. EU great for them.

Could have thrown in the UN who define our international aid budget %, NATO who define our defence spending % etc etc. We are always going to have to comply with rules over which we have little control unless you want isolation.

WE choose to be members. WE choose the rules too. We dont have big non elected brother telling us what we have to do or taking control of our courts and laws, immigration, and all of our trade rules, and are not forced into a socialist political union. WE CHOOSE!!!

You are deluded if you think that you can in any way change that, getting out of the EU definitely isn't going to do it.

Nobody said it would? Dont understand that reference. But those are things WE decide on.

Our clowns will have less control, for example we get to make a reasonable amount of control on EU standards, a significant one of 28 ,go to WTO/ISO and our voice is hardly heard so we have less control.

I disagree. Its already better in one MASSIVE way. It doesent try to control US. It is a trade agreement, and thats all we want. It is NOT a political union and a socialist one at that, with USSR style centralised control and planning. I have nothing against a TRADE deal with the EU, and that can only come AFTER we leave.

As Brexit clearly demonstrates we have no control over MP's, we might be able to get rid of a few when the next election comes around or try and get a few out using the recall petition if they get convicted of an offence. Unfortunately by the time of the next election we'll be out and people will have forgotten about what their MP did and will be back to voting on non binding manifesto's, normal service will resume.

I disagree. The main 2 parties are up shit creek for generations. There will be new parties to fill in the gap that these 2 have failed to do. Much like the brexit party has appeared to do what the people asked for. And if the current lot dont do it, they will be out. And Brexit party in.

Even worse we'll have a Corbyn led government and you can forget having any way to influence that but he'll have more power to f'ck things up. Power needs to be in the hands of the people that is the biggest change we can make.

Thats a mass contradiction. The PEOPLE are the idiots that will vote corbyn in. Why? Because at least half the voters do not have a clue about socialism and the damage it does. And another third vote the way they parents and grand parents did and have no idea why.
There should be a few simple qualifying questions on the ballot paper. Get a few simple basic questions wrong and your vote should go in the bin.

[wheelie junkie]

I've been unable to find the CEN safety standards for pillows and would like to actually see them, where did you find them? Looking at furnishings a lot of the standards are joint BS/EN and ISO especially on fire safety and hazardous chemicals, I'd be interested to see how 1 can have 100 more regulations. That is now relatively normal, national/EU and international standards are the same. For my industry we can make to BS, CEN and ISO, test once and it covers all 3 standards. It makes sense for a small company, prior to CEN we would have to look at individual countries regulations and test for that country, expensive and time consuming, limiting improvement and change as you had to retest. For small companies wanting to export it makes business so much easier.

About 3 years ago the UK had its own standard for ebikes (we've always been able to chose what we adopt from the EU) it was unique in limiting motor power (and I know the problems of that as a determining factor) and none of the major drive train suppliers would make for it. Importers, dealers and customers all faced breaking the law by importing the higher power EN spec bikes, unsurprisingly sales were low. We then adopted CEN and the market boomed, much easier for importers and dealers and a vast choice for consumers. The regulations might of been tighter but it actually made sense.

Not all regulations limit, far from it and having our own standard could be more difficult for small companies and less choice for consumers.

Each country in the world can set their own rules but many choose to use EN or ISO because it is the easy option. We still have BS and will continue with it post Brexit but if change is needed it would make sense to go ISO.

We don't choose rules with WTO, we comply with them.We can agree trade deals on preferential terms with individual countries outside of WTO but otherwise abide by WTO rules.Obviously it is trade only, don't think I have ever suggested it is anything different. If we choose to be members of organisations like the UN then we comply with their rules unless there is an opt out. You don't join a club and ignore the rules.

As per my previous comments I am not bothered about how the EU influences, whether we are in or out is of little relevance but if/when we leave needs to be planned for. If that doesn't happen there will be problems.

We'll see what happens over the coming months, if the Tories get us out the 2 party system will continue, if they don't we'll have chaos until someone does get us out. This is not democracy we might vote a party in based upon their manifesto but, as I keep saying, it is not binding. Somehow that needs to change, if Brexit achieves that, great but I fear that many of those voting to leave don't see that our democracy doesn't fit in the 21st century. And if more voting means testing on ballot forms then so be it. If you don't understand what you are voting on your vote shouldn't count.

[Burgerman]

Where did I get the pillow stuff? Brexit the Movie! Yes much of it is exadurated, or incorrect. The 32 regulations on toothbrushes were actually electric toothbrushes, and some were for lithium batteries powering them etc. But that isnt the point. The spirit if that movie is absolutely correct. Even if it goes a bit OTT! And I for one gave up trying to sell in the EU. Its so full off bulshit that it was just easier to just sell elsewhere.

The sooner we are out of this socialist overpowering superstate, the better. Thats what I voted for. I dont care about all the stuff that all the remainers keep trying to scare people with. At all. Some things are way more important. I was waiting for an opportunity to leave that political union for 25 years.

[Burgerman]

This is how I see things.

[wheelie junkie]

So bullshit then. Selling in the EU is so much easier than the rest of the world, no country of origin or duty to sort out you can have dealers on exactly the same terms as the UK, no bureaucracy for dealer to sort, consumer price is lower as you can deal direct with a dealer, no distributor margin, you sell more. Or you should as the system makes it easy and your product is a better price to consumer. Exactly what the economic community was meant to do but with it came baggage.

I've got no control whatsoever over UK politics, system takes it away, my vote is pointless. Constituency goes to Rory the Tory by a huge majority, I think that the last election was 26,000 for him, nearest rival about 6,000. Until we get PR or direct democracy there will be millions like me who's vote counts for nothing. That is way more important than Brexit in my world, living in a supposedly democratic country your vote should mean something. When it doesn't political change is needed as a priority.

[Burgerman]

I disasagree. But its all completely irrelevent. You are fussing about details.

I dont much care. Priority one. Get out. No deal. Now. (3 years ago was what we really voted for). Fuss about minor technicalities afterwards.

[Burgerman]

Why we dont want another may in trousers.
Jeremy cunt. Remainer. Who will waste yet more time.
You may have noted all the anti boris propaganda has started comming out of the woodwork vlately too. The remoaners still cant bear it can they.

[wheelie junkie]

Details are kind of important as is having your voice heard, it is frustrating for you that your referendum vote hasn't been adhered to, frustrating for me that it is pointless voting in our current system. We need change.

It doesn't matter which of them is elected, Labour will push a vote of no confidence and the Tories will need DUP support which they won't get for a no deal PM, then you get a general election and the door opens for the Brexit party. You'll get what you want unless Labour are elected then you'll have another referendum plus Corbyn.

[Burgerman]

Nope.

Election will mean farage. And if not farage + conservatives = no deal, 3 years late.

And:

Details are kind of important as is having your voice heard.

No LEAVING now, is priority. You then you can fuss about all your details later as and when.

[wheelie junkie]

I hope Farage isn't wanting a second vote, he lost, get over it

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 72201.html

[Burgerman]

Well why not. If the remoaners and liberals, and labour, and most of parliment can ask for and repeatedly so for the last 3 years, including voting fopr one, not for vote rigging but because they LOST, then whay not. Serves them right. Whats more if the remoaners get a 2nd referendum, I for one then think it should be best of 3.

[wheelie junkie]

Best of 5,7,9 and on it goes. Maybe by then there will be intelligence questions just to add an additional dimension to it.

It might actually get sorted if reports of 12 Tory remoaners willing to back a no confidence vote are true. That would be a turn up, shooting themselves in the foot to try and avoid Johnson and a no deal exit. Throw a general election into the chaos and there is definitely no way there is time for anyone to renegotiate with the EU no matter who wins. You'll get your no deal exit eventually.

[Burgerman]

Yes we will. Right now you are seeing the final death throws of the defeated remainer and they are going all out and will lose. One way or another. They actually caused the hardening attitude, the brexit party, etc. They shot themselves in the foot and will get the no deal that they really destest. Stupid remainers!

[F3Head]

Leave will never happen. The EU has too much to lose if Britain exits the EU. The powers that be will make sure you vote again and get it right this time. Too much money invested…

F3HEAD

[Burgerman]

The people across the EU are only now waking up to what the EU really is. They were all sold a common trading group. Not a centralised communist style socialistic political union that they are all just figuring out that they now have by stealth.

That, and the fact that the EU and especially the Eurozone are all in a lot of financial shit, and that there is a rise of the right (and left in france) that are all sick to death of the endless push to MORE EU, and the open borders, muslimization, and other issues such as 15 percent unemployment in france, etc. All of this means that the EU like all these big political unions has had its day.

The cat is out of the box, the people are awakening and rising up. The polititians call this POPULISM and have a distain for the peoples will. The media are all overly liberal, and as trump calls their left and liberal globalist propaganda , fake news. The people are noticing this too. Why does the TV tell us what to think, why is it anti america, anti brexit, anti trump, anti free speech (unless its their type of free speech) etc etc. The people are noticing this too.

We will get brexit, one way or another. Wait and see. You can lie to the people for a while. Sooner or later they notice and then eventually they organise themselves. Never mnd brexit, the EU will not survive.

[wheelie junkie]

Leave will never happen. The EU has too much to lose if Britain exits the EU. The powers that be will make sure you vote again and get it right this time. Too much money invested…

F3HEAD

It has little to do with what the EU want and given their no renegotiating stance I don’t think they are that bothered. Johnson seems to think that we have something to negotiate with it will be interesting to see what.

[Burgerman]

2 things.

If the EU think we are ACTUALLY SERIOUS and will leave no deal, they will bend over backwards to get some kind of deal. Because they want a deal as much as anyone can. They will not do that with some idiot in charge, or parliment saying that they wont leave without a deal. Why would they? So it may well be that boris can get a deal that is useful. But the other idiot jeremy cunt certainly wont get one! He has already removed the thing that worries them off the table before they even meet. What a moron. Obviously clueless, and a useless dealmaker. About as bright as a 6 year old. Unless he actually WANTS to remain. Which we all know he does. He is may mk2.

Boris , like me, knows the only way to get a deal thats worth having is being prepared to walk if it doesent suit. Just like buying a used car atthe right price. And if thats a bad deal, or if they wont negotiate, tough. Theres NOTHING wrong with actually leaving on WTO terms and doing a deal if we choose later on. And knowing this is what makes boris stronger. He doesent much care deal or not. And thats CORRECT!

And if neither get us out fast, farage is polling at 22 percent already, boris 22, labour 20.

[wheelie junkie]

Unfortunately the EU also know that even if Boris wants no deal he can't get it through parliament. Plus he is already talking about using parts of May's withdrawal agreement, the EU know that they still have the upper hand and Boris's are tied. In their position I wouldn't be moving far and inevitably Boris will fail, the only way anything can change is when the numbers in parliament do. General election needed, why wait until October?