UK has a socialist government

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UK has a socialist government

Postby greybeard » 19 Jul 2019, 17:44

That's the conclusion of Godfrey Bloom (former UKIP MEP). Think BM and he have been chatting :D

Bloom just posted this on Twitter:

"The government has bought on your behalf, dud banks, absurd wind turbines & solar panels.
It has announced £500 million investment in electric Jaguar cars.
WHY?
Because genuine investors wouldn't touch them with a barge pole.
WE HAVE A SOCIALIST GOVERNMENT."
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Re: UK has a socialist government

Postby wheelie junkie » 19 Jul 2019, 17:53

He'll have a much longer list if the electorate are stupid enough to let Corbyn take power. Highly unlikely now that he has the second referendum suicide belt firmly attached but you never know.

Tories promised deals to car makers in the event of no deal and will have to help farming, of course the country won't get shares for the investment so worse than socialism.
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Re: UK has a socialist government

Postby Burgerman » 19 Jul 2019, 17:55

Correct. And it doesent touch the surface.

In the UK theres no longer a right of centre party. They are all socialist, and liberal, and that includes that green socialism - climate "emergency" bulshit that they are taxing us to death to "fix" unilaterally. Not that it could.

of course the country won't get shares for the investment so worse than socialism.

Socialism doesent give you a share. And its not an investment. Well it does share in a way. You get to share in the death, poverty, starvation, and lack of hospital care or power, you get to eat your pet, and the zoo animals, if thats what you mean. You get to share the desperation, depression and exhaustion and lack of freedom. Ask any venuzualan. Or any EX socialist country. An east german, A north korean. Etc.
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Re: UK has a socialist government

Postby wheelie junkie » 19 Jul 2019, 18:07

The first time you go to China and India you realise that we can't change the environment, China has over 1bn aspiring to own a Merc or BMW, India everyone wants to fly. You need to change 2+bn people and we won't do that easily. The developing countries aren't going to want to be told to do without by countries who have enjoyed cars and planes for years.
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Re: UK has a socialist government

Postby Burgerman » 19 Jul 2019, 22:21

Absolutely. And thats not just 2 billion, thats 3/4 of the almost 8 billion that exist today. When I was born, 1n 1960 there were 2.4 billion. In the few years I have lived so far, we have gone from 2.4 to 7.7 billion people.

Today, theres over 3 billion that are in a rapidly evolving india and china. And only 1.5 billion in the so called developed world those that use a lot of fuel.

The very availability of that cheap abundant fuel is what caused us to go from 1 million to 7.7 billion in the 20th century. And that fuel, is what makes it possible to feed these countries and all the people. In the next couple of years alone, the population of the UK (70 million mouths) will be added to the planet. So even if we do bankrupt the UK, and never burn any fuel (or buy any overseas) it wont make a blind bit of difference. And we cant do that ANYWAY! This net zero thing is not actually possible. Once the undeveloped countries decide to turn the lights on, build industry, use cars, heat, then the amount of power needed will go up at least 300% of what it is today AT LEAST!

Ant then theres this...
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Re: UK has a socialist government

Postby Burgerman » 19 Jul 2019, 22:54

Actual power used by the world by year.
It has risen by approx the same amount as the population has over my lifetime. Around 300%.
It will continue to do so. Even AFTER the population stabilizes if it does. Due to the third world wanting to eat stay warm, manufacture things as we do here.

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Ever closer union! Re: UK has a socialist government

Postby F3Head » 21 Jul 2019, 22:04

German official to lead the EU Commission!

Good news for the citizens of the UK! You get to look forward to even more Europe. More Europe coming your way; ever closer union. Naturally looking for more UK money, i.e. the New Green Deal. I can't wait to see how this goes down, especially with the Greens now running Germany!

Looking forward to Wednesday when Boris takes control. Should be a very interesting times in the next 6 months. You know you're in trouble when Der Spiegel gushes all over her. Unfortunately I'm sorry to say, I don't think Boris is your man. At best you're going to get Brexit light Teresa May style and the UK will become a modern-day vassel state. Read the link below for even more goodness. It was some good TV with Nigel Farage's anti-EU speech in case you missed it during von der Leyen's announcement ceremony.

What's important is what von der Leyen says -- and what she does.

Actions Speak Louder Than Words

She had already delivered a strong oratorical performance on Tuesday with her application speech. Indeed, she created a European moment, articulating her feelings and positioning herself squarely against the danger from the populist right. "It's the most precious thing we have," von der Leyen said. At the end, she exclaimed: "Es lebe Europa, vive l'Europe, long live Europe!"

It was good to hear such an emotional speech.

https://www.spiegel.de/international/eu ... 77776.html

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Re: UK has a socialist government

Postby Burgerman » 21 Jul 2019, 23:17

TBP will hoover up all the brexiteers if boris doesent do as he says.
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Re: UK has a socialist government

Postby martin007 » 21 Jul 2019, 23:37

Burgerman wrote:Actual power used by the world by year.
It has risen by approx the same amount as the population has over my lifetime. Around 300%.


Where do you get all that energy?
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Re: UK has a socialist government

Postby Burgerman » 22 Jul 2019, 09:46

Almost all of it comes from coal, gas, and oil. China are building hundreds of coal power stations over the last 20 years and many more planned. Same with gas, and oil, more and more produced. Remember that most HEAT is produced by coal, gas, oil - not electricity. Heat accounts for around 5x as much energy as electricity. So renewables and nuclear cant do a lot here!

Renewables and nuclear are a joke once the heat energy gets added to the rest. In terrawatt hours. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... n_2016.gif

The idea that mrs mays net zero CO2 can be achieved is frankly rediculous and it will bankrupt the country attempting to do so. For nothing!
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Re: UK has a socialist government

Postby greybeard » 22 Jul 2019, 14:32

Burgerman wrote:
The idea that mrs mays net zero CO2 can be achieved is frankly rediculous and it will bankrupt the country attempting to do so. For nothing!


Well she does have stacks of form for not listening to anyone who doesnt share her opinions! It will take a long, long time to undo all the damage that lying bitch has done.
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Re: UK has a socialist government

Postby martin007 » 22 Jul 2019, 18:04

If you want to break the country, follow the example of Spanish politicians...
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Re: UK has a socialist government

Postby Burgerman » 22 Jul 2019, 19:01

Quite. You just voted in a more extreme socialist to do a venuzala on you. Only crazy people or stupid people that do not understand anything could do this. :thumbdown:
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Re: UK has a socialist government

Postby martin007 » 22 Jul 2019, 21:41

I didn't vote.
Spain is a country of idlers, sheep, civil servants and politicians.
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Re: UK has a socialist government

Postby Burgerman » 22 Jul 2019, 21:51

Thats a PERFECT description of socialism! :clap

You, or rather your society will get poorer and poorer. The resession you talked about earlier was 11 years ago. More capitalist countries like germany, and the UK recovered from that and its now almost business as usual. House prices for e.g is well above the 2008 level. It dipped a little and now its above by around 20% and still climbing slowly - at least outside of london. Also almost full employment. And we are seeing a rise in wage levels because of this.

The more socialist countries in southern europe and france, are still struggling. Unemployment is 15% in socialist loving france for e.g. and they are finding some empty shelves in the shops. And an average working person cant afford to live or pay the bills. Guess why...
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Re: UK has a socialist government

Postby martin007 » 22 Jul 2019, 21:56

You have No idea how Spain is.
All children want to be civil servants...
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Re: UK has a socialist government

Postby Burgerman » 23 Jul 2019, 00:29

So if the government was to REWARD hard work, and specifically self employment (work for yourself, start a business) so that those that did this instead had greater income than a gov employed civil servant then they would want to do this instead right?

So lets say you can buy a bicycle, and a bucket and sponge, and become a window cleaner. If this was encouraged with "startup grants". And allowed to run tax free, so you can keep all the profit, then what would these kids want to do?

Year 2, they can employ 10 window cleaners, keep all the profit and pay a wage. Now unemployment falls, 10 others have a job $$$, and the one that started his business is making plenty of money. So he opens another business in the next town...

Thats capitalism. Thats free market trade. Thats what made west germany, and south korea rich, and east germany and north korea poor (they are comunist/socialist). The poor countries are BIG government, high taxes, and low freedom and no encouragement for entraprenurs.

Countries on the left of this, socialists and are POOR
Countries on the right of this are capitalist and are RICH.
Most countries are centre left, or centre right.
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Re: UK has a socialist government

Postby martin007 » 23 Jul 2019, 14:21

Spain has a cultural problem that has been dragging on for centuries. banghead banghead
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Re: UK has a socialist government

Postby Burgerman » 23 Jul 2019, 20:46

Socialism = poor. Capitalism = richer.

Every country is a mix. Where is the best place to be on this line?
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Re: UK has a socialist government

Postby Burgerman » 24 Jul 2019, 12:36

UK centre right ish... But definitely capitalist and low taxation for business etc.

After recovering from the disaster of a labour government, the conservatives now have the lowest unemployment for over 40 years, the fastest wage growth in 20 years, the lowest interest rates in half a century, and the lowest government borrowing reduced by 10x compared to 10 years ago. And probably the healthiest economy in europe. And much healthier than most of the countries there. In spite of all the 3 years of doom and gloom from the remainers, parliment, and media over brexit. And still they are screaming and foot stamping.
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Re: UK has a socialist government

Postby wheelie junkie » 24 Jul 2019, 17:24

Um, low interest rates were needed to prop up a fucked economy after bailing out the banks which is why borrowing is down compared to 10 years ago. Neither is an indicator of a strong economy. There are many different indicators and if you use things like productivity you'll see a lack of investment and poor performance compared to pre banking fuck up. It is not easy to determine how we are doing as there are different ways to interpret numbers depending upon how you want to spin it.

eg
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... employment
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-48594011

One month apart and totally different conclusions
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Re: UK has a socialist government

Postby Burgerman » 24 Jul 2019, 18:23

The guardian and the BBC!!! :clap
Two heavily left leaning halves of the same bias. You are joking right? Do me a favour. :lol:


Um, low interest rates were needed to prop up a fucked economy after bailing out the banks which is why borrowing is down compared to 10 years ago. Neither is an indicator of a strong economy.


Low interest rates are an essential reqirement to allow business to prosper, as it can source capital cheaply to expand and grow. Its also pretty good for everyone that has a mortgage leaving more to spend on other things, and easier for people to afford a martgage/house. Or do you not remember all the massive businesses and stuff going bust when interest rates were around 15%...
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Re: UK has a socialist government

Postby wheelie junkie » 24 Jul 2019, 18:57

Try reading the articles, left wing leaning yet totally opposite reporting, like I said you can make numbers do whatever you want even when you share political views.

Low interest rates were forced upon us to keep the economy going, I'm pretty sure that the BOE didn't want to lower them as far and for as long but have done so because it would cause real problems if they raised them.

More consumer debt can be a problem especially if loans are taken out at low rates and then the rates rise which is why the BOE can't raise quickly, there would be an immediate knock on to consumer spending given the current level of consumer debt. And I agree on the 15% days, I think that my first mortgage was taken out at 13 or 14%, fortunately it was within my means so when the rates came down I could repay more of the capital. Glad that I did as I would be screwed if we still had a mortgage.
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Re: UK has a socialist government

Postby Burgerman » 24 Jul 2019, 19:09

Low interest rates were forced upon us to keep the economy going, I'm pretty sure that the BOE didn't want to lower them as far and for as long but have done so because it would cause real problems if they raised them.

Wrong. Low interest rates would be the natural result of what happened. If allowed to float in a free market. The banks should NOT ne controling them for any other reason other than to balance income to outgoing.

So if the rates are too high, people, and businesses dont BORROW and the bank has a load of money it cannot "sell".
Becaause those with money save it and gain interest!
If the rates are too low, nobody banks money, they buy stuff or invest elsewhere, so that the bank now has no money to lend, and many public and business wanting to borrow as its cheap!
So the CORRECT figure is a balance, if not artificially manipulated foe external (socialist) reasons.

More consumer debt can be a problem especially if loans are taken out at low rates and then the rates rise which is why the BOE can't raise quickly, there would be an immediate knock on to consumer spending given the current level of consumer debt. And I agree on the 15% days, I think that my first mortgage was taken out at 13 or 14%, fortunately it was within my means so when the rates came down I could repay more of the capital. Glad that I did as I would be screwed if we still had a mortgage.

The choice to borrow or invest at whatever the rate is at the time, including risk of it rising is both the borrower and the lenders RISK. Their own choices. If the get that wrong, thats their problem in a free market.
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Re: UK has a socialist government

Postby wheelie junkie » 25 Jul 2019, 13:04

Interest rates are the BOE
Burgerman wrote:
Low interest rates were forced upon us to keep the economy going, I'm pretty sure that the BOE didn't want to lower them as far and for as long but have done so because it would cause real problems if they raised them.

Wrong. Low interest rates would be the natural result of what happened. If allowed to float in a free market. The banks should NOT ne controling them for any other reason other than to balance income to outgoing.

So if the rates are too high, people, and businesses dont BORROW and the bank has a load of money it cannot "sell".
Becaause those with money save it and gain interest!
If the rates are too low, nobody banks money, they buy stuff or invest elsewhere, so that the bank now has no money to lend, and many public and business wanting to borrow as its cheap!
So the CORRECT figure is a balance, if not artificially manipulated foe external (socialist) reasons.

More consumer debt can be a problem especially if loans are taken out at low rates and then the rates rise which is why the BOE can't raise quickly, there would be an immediate knock on to consumer spending given the current level of consumer debt. And I agree on the 15% days, I think that my first mortgage was taken out at 13 or 14%, fortunately it was within my means so when the rates came down I could repay more of the capital. Glad that I did as I would be screwed if we still had a mortgage.

The choice to borrow or invest at whatever the rate is at the time, including risk of it rising is both the borrower and the lenders RISK. Their own choices. If the get that wrong, thats their problem in a free market.


A total lack of understanding of economic policy, interest rates are the BOE's method of controlling inflation or an over heating economy and banks don't struggle to lend if they don't have savings fractional reserve banking has existed for a long time and banks create money by lending. A nice simple explanation of money and how it is created and loaned
youtu.be/2nBPN-MKefA nothing whatsoever to do with savings.Obviously there is also a connection between interest rates and bonds which are the government's method of borrowing and the amount needed to service that debt. If you really want to look at risk try something like Zopa where you can decide the risk level you want for lending your savings at higher interest rates. This does mean lending using real money not by creating it.
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Re: UK has a socialist government

Postby Burgerman » 25 Jul 2019, 13:41

Yes thats all bull. And obviously in a world of delusionalist lefties and other nuts you can find countless such movies and its all bollox because they conviniently leave out many important facts that make their movies look stupid..

Error 1 where I stopped listening to this bull.

Banks creat money for mortgages. Wrong
The bank SWAPS the money you borrow for the value of your house. Which they take from you if you fail to repay the money they lend. So they dont create the money. They BUY your house. And its not yours till such time as you repay them. Thats why business loans, and mortgages and almost every significant loan must have some kind of security. HP on a car for .e.g is based on your deposit and the cars value when they take it back... Same with business loans, businessmen may lose their house if that is waht was used to secure the loan.

And theres equal amounts of garbage all the way through that movie. Its conspiracy theory garbage. The bank only "creates" the money as a negative equity until you give them it back If you do not, they repay this - amount, by taking your house and selling it. The reason for the crash a decade ago was that house prices collapsed and they COULDNT sell and repay the borrowd money. And you think I dont understand economics! And you do! :lol: Its the illiminati!!! Its just conspiracy theory garbage.
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Re: UK has a socialist government

Postby wheelie junkie » 25 Jul 2019, 18:24

It is not in any way political, banks create money from nothing, what secures a loan is irrelevant. Look at the numbers UK debt £2tn there wasn't that much money 50 years ago it has been created from banks lending money they created. Theoretically there is more money in circulation but little of it is real with an equivalent value in gold sitting in a bank vault. Security of a loan depends upon market value, home owners are used to seeing house values increase this was used by Thatcher to regenerate a failing economy caused by socialism and too powerful unions. If interest rates rise market value has a risk of dropping so problems for lender and borrower. Hence why BOE couldn't increase interest rates other than slowly. A strong economy would have a balance of inflation and interest rates but ours is still too fragile, if we get inflation from a falling £ they have limited ways to control it and the additional problem of having to raise bond rates giving a bigger cost of servicing it.

As I said you can spin numbers to do what you want and the political parties do it is difficult to make any judgement on how the economy is really doing because of the numbers of factors involved, believe what you want but I will be cautious over anything that claims that we are doing well.
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Re: UK has a socialist government

Postby Burgerman » 25 Jul 2019, 20:28

It is not in any way political, banks create money from nothing,

No they dont. They create it, in exchange for your house, and usually to be sure they get it back they want a deposit paid in case its value falls. Loans may also be unsecured, but again based on your history, your business, etc. As a risk, I.E. venture capital. They all want it back, one way or another, and take your security instead, or lose the money. Thats a risk the bank takes in offering you the loan at a high cost, interest rate. When a bank "creates" the money to lend to you, it is actually a negative figure in the banks accounts, temporarily till they get it back. Or your house, or whatever. They have not created any money from fresh air.

Even if they did, all that does is decrese the value of the total currency in direct proportion, which simlply means all the rest of the money is worth less. Thats called quantitive easing. Its not real, as you have not created more value in the currency only bigger number and more dollars, that are each worth less than before.

what secures a loan is irrelevant.

No its not. Try tellong the bank that!

Look at the numbers UK debt £2tn there wasn't that much money 50 years ago it has been created from banks lending money they created. Theoretically there is more money in circulation but little of it is real with an equivalent value in gold sitting in a bank vault.

IF they do that, it isnt creating any value, only notes or number on paper. If they were to DOUBLE the number of dollars in the system tomorrow, every dollar will now buy the same as 50 cents. They have only increased the MUNBERS not the value. So they created nothing.
Security of a loan depends upon market value, home owners are used to seeing house values increase this was used by Thatcher to regenerate a failing economy caused by socialism and too powerful unions. If interest rates rise market value has a risk of dropping so problems for lender and borrower.

And in a capitalist free market thats fine. BOTH should consider that this may happen, and both should be allowed to make up their own minds as to if its a wise investment or loan, at the rates charged. And allowed to fail if they get it wrong.

Hence why BOE couldn't increase interest rates other than slowly.

In the thatcher years the banks did not control the interest rates! That power was given to them within the last couple of decades. And the banks are a business. If they want to charge more, then they get more invested. If they want to charge more for loans, then they get less business. As you say, if they were stupid enough to lend to people that cant afford to pay, then they made bad business decisions because of greed for new business. And thats their problem.

A strong economy would have a balance of inflation and interest rates but ours is still too fragile, if we get inflation from a falling £ they have limited ways to control it and the additional problem of having to raise bond rates giving a bigger cost of servicing it.

A strong economy doesent care about inflation much. And if the bank wants to have less risk, they should not lend to people that will not be abe to afford the repayments if the economy is less than good. Thats THIER risk as a business. And the rates they charge for this risk is also their choice. If they get too happy about lending to the wrong people at too low rates, then they do not make enough to cover this when the economy is not as good, and people cant afford what they borrowed. The bank then collapses. Thats free trade. That is capitalism.
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Re: UK has a socialist government

Postby wheelie junkie » 26 Jul 2019, 14:59

You are living in 1970's economy with mutual Building Societies and Savers and lenders linked together, the 86 FSA demutialised building societies so they could play the fractional reserve game as well. Finance and economics moved on quickly new markets and systems with less regulation.

Debt can be a security in itself. Part of the f'ck up in 2008 was banks buying debt, other banks packaging good and sub prime loans then selling it on. Try this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_(finance)#New_capital not much mention of property as security. The system gets even more fucked up when you start borrowing to buy debt.

Money creation process https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractiona ... on_process of course it is not real money backed by an equivalent amount in gold but it still exists as numbers. Creating more doesn't affect the value of existing money as non of it is real. Most of the financial systems aren't real just manipulation of numbers.

None of this changes my opinion that you can judge how an economy is doing from a handful of statistics the important bit is how people are doing
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Re: UK has a socialist government

Postby Burgerman » 26 Jul 2019, 16:17

Well thats even easier.
Most of the world live on less than a dollar a day. I have a house, carers paid by the taxpayer, a car, 5 powerchairs, 2 OLED flatscreen TVs, heat, food, 2 freezers, 1 US style fridge freezer, a gardener, a robot lawnmower, many RC toys, spending money, no debt at all, or mortgage, free healthcare, inc drugs and electric beds, contenance supplies etc, and much more. And I am unemployed for 22 years. :clap

So not bad then!!!
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