I see

[expresso]

Do your shopping at Target instead of Walmart. I have never heard of a shoooting at Target.

[Burgerman]

That link is basically what I am saying. In the US you cannot fix your mad gun problem without getting rid of all the guns, changing the culture. And thats not going to happen. Small measures will only scratch the surface. Large measures wont ever be implemented.

[Burgerman]

UK mass shootings over the last decades. Theres 2. In one nobody was killed. In the other 12 were. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category: ... ed_Kingdom

US mass shootings, over the last decade, is simply crazy! Heres a list. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shoo ... ted_States

The rest of the civilised world are always amazed when we see all this on the news. And still nothing ever gets done about it and you protect it. Like you are all brainwashed into believing that this is normal, and ok. And many have soaked up the nra propaganda as fact. When its all full of methodalogical flaws in the same way the religous appologists do it. That appears to work over there too. And it shouldnt.

[expresso]

this country is very much a Gun Country from the start - with good intentions of course - its not going to be easy to take ALL GUNS away from everyone and only the Police and Gov. will be Armed - thats not going to sit well with many americans here -

i dont like that idea either - i dont follow - or belong or care about the NRA etc, - i have enjoyed gun sports in the past - and i never killed anyone or have any intention of doing so - with gun or without -

what can i say - - Wild West was safer for the fact that everyone had a gun and exposed - ready to use - so its a 50 50 chance if you start a fight with someone - you will think twice -

i am not suggesting everyone have a gun - carry a gun or anything like that - too many idiots - its not a toy and needs to be taken serious at all times -

we see what trump does next about this -

[Burgerman]

He wont do anything. Theres nothing he can do that will make a blind bit of difference. Theres only one way to do that (total ban, and extreme search house to house to get rid of them completely, and 10 years inside for having one anywhere. But:

this country is very much a Gun Country from the start - with good intentions of course - its not going to be easy to take ALL GUNS away from everyone and only the Police and Gov. will be Armed - thats not going to sit well with many americans here -

Thats why. So it is what it is. The real issue is WHY you and those like you are not screaming to rid your country of this plague? But you are not so thats it.

[expresso]

In the past 48hrs, the USA horrifically lost 34 people to mass shootings.

On average, across any 48hrs, we also lose…

500 to Medical errors
300 to the Flu
250 to Suicide
200 to Car Accidents
40 to Homicide via Handgun

[Burgerman]

In the past 48hrs, the USA horrifically lost 34 people to mass shootings.

On average, across any 48hrs, we also lose…

500 to Medical errors
300 to the Flu
250 to Suicide
200 to Car Accidents
40 to Homicide via Handgun

Thats stupid gun lobby logic.

We also have all of those other losses. So what?
You could have saved 34, and 40 extra lives.

The medical system is there to do its best to save people, which it mostly does. Take it away and more die than are sadly killed by the medical system. Its main purpose is SAVING lives which its spectacularly good at. But you cant win them all. That is the EXACT OPPOSITE to what happens by removing guns.

Flue? Cant be avoded any more than heart attacks, falling out of windows or getting eaten by a croc. Non of that has anything to do with the ADDITIONAL 34, and 40 (your numbers) added extra deaths caused by guns. Its simply an attemp to muddy the waters.

Cars are essential. And trucks. And trains. All those things FEED your population, allow industrialisd food production, and people to access work to pay for it. And it allows you to have a high standard of living that has INCREASED lifespan to the longest its ever been in history. Remove those things and more will die. So a CAR/TRUCK/Etc is essential for your society. And we have legislated year after year to make the roads safer. With tests, laws, crumple zones, speed limits, seat belts, crash testing and endless safety changes, all in an attempt to make them safer and safer as much as is possible. And oviously this hasnt got a damned thing to do with all the extra deaths you get by arming the population.

A gun death is just a ADDITIONAL death that need never have happened. We have no guns, and we also have ways people die. And you have ADDITIONAL mass shootings daily. You have a hell of a lot more gun accidents, and other gun deaths and injuries daily that are not mass shootings too. You have been brainwashed by the gun lobby people and their completely flawed logic.

[Burgerman]

Daily Gun Violence Impacting People of All Ages in the U.S.

Every day, 310 people are shot in the United States. Among those:

100 people are shot and killed
210 survive gun injuries
95 are injured in an attack
61 die from suicide
10 survive a suicide attempt
1 is killed unintentionally
90 are shot unintentionally
1 is killed by legal intervention
4 are shot by legal intervention
1 dies but the intent was unknown
12 are shot but the intent was unknown

ALL of this was ADDITIONAL death and injury that need never have happened. Except suicides. But research shows that even those will be seriously reduced.

And tomorrow it all happens again. About 4000 a year. Imagine lining up 4000 people, and gunning them down at once. Kids, teens, wives, church goers, thugs, police, etc. For nothing. Every year. Add another 4000 just injured, often life changing. Its STUPID.

[expresso]

that wasnt from any gun lobby - it was from Neil degrasse tyson - you know the space guy - that was his saying -

forget the gun lobby - i dont follow them - they have there own agenda like everyone else -

[Burgerman]

Well they use that same daft comparison too.

But it doesent matter that x number of people die because of falling into rivers every year. Or whatever. That happens regardless. We have no guns, and it happens here. The GUN thing is ON TOP of all of that, and its unessasary.

They use that to try and make murdering 4000 people and injuring another 4000 seem like its a small number. It isnt.

It was also pointed out to him, that it wasnt just those 34 in 2 shootings, but in fact some 200 plus people died by the gun in that 48 hours. And every 48 hours...

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/08/05/us/n ... index.html

[Burgerman]

You realise that the OFFENCE in the UK is actually having one.

The difference and you know it is that a knife has a legitimate purpose in the kitchen, and many other places just as vehicles and hospitals do. Guns are NOT needed, since we have non. And they are designed only to kill, have no sensible purpose other than to make the inadequate feel powerful.

And the number of knife crimes in countries that did ban guns, or introduced gun controls such as australia, did not increase significantly. The gun deaths are ADDITIONAL. And in any case the number of knife crimes in the UK, per population head, pales ito absolute insignificance compared to the gun deaths in the US. Which are on top of knife deaths which are similar in both places.

In new york in 2017 for e.g. There were 76 deaths attributed to knife crime in new york, and in london. Exactly the same. 76.

However new york had a bunch of gun deaths on top of that.

And I might also add that those were mostly in london were almost all blacks on blacks and black on whites. That does not happen outside of the capital. So the UK overall is some 5x safer than in londons multicultural hell hole from gang and knife crimes. Thats also not true in the US.

[Burgerman]

Do you not know what population head means? It means AFTER the population differences were taken into account.

And the rest of your story is bull.

So what happened after the assault-weapon ban? Nothing.

Nothing, that is, in a good way.

As for mass killings, there were no more. Not one in the past 22 years.

In 2002, a mentally impaired student at Monash University in Melbourne shot two people dead and injured five others. He came to his rampage with six handguns, not an assault rifle. Had he been carrying an AR-15, the toll would have been far worse. But even so, Australian lawmakers added a new National Handgun Agreement, a separate buyback act, and a reformulated gun trafficking policy to their legislative arsenal.

There has been no similar shooting spree since.

But it wasn’t just the murderous rampages that faded away. Gun violence in general declined over the following two decades to a nearly unimaginable degree. In 2014, the latest year for which final statistics are available, Australia’s murder rate fell to less than 1 killing per 100,000 people—a murder rate one-fifth the size of America’s.

Just 32 of those homicides—in a nation of 24 million people—were committed with guns. By comparison, more than 500 people were shot dead last year in the city of Chicago alone. (Chicago has just 2.7 million residents.)

Perhaps most remarkable is what happened with gun suicides in Australia in the wake of the post-Port Arthur firearm legislation. They dropped by some 80 percent.

What stopped many of those would-be suicides—quite straightforwardly, it seems—was the lack of access to a gun, a generally immediate and effective method of killing. (Nine out of 10 suicide attempts with a firearm result in death, a far higher share than attempts by other methods.) Public health experts call such an effect “means restriction.” Some Australians found other ways to take their own lives—but for many, that acute moment of sadness and resolve passed in the absence of a gun.

Which brings us back to the here and now. In 2015, an unthinkable 22,103 Americans shot themselves to death with a gun (see Table I-21)—accounting for just over half of the suicides in the country that year.

It isn’t hard to imagine what would happen without all those guns at the ready. In a world of raging hypotheticals, we actually have some good, hard answers for this. All we have to do is look down under. There are millions of American families begging us to do it.

[Burgerman]

Nope. But I dont require a penis extension, and the figures in every country no matter how you try to spin it are plainly obvious to all but the delusional.

its ALL FACTS

But the wrong reasoning and the wrong logic. On purpose of course by the pro gun people to suit their needs. All of it can be shown to be logical fallacys or ignoring something important on purpose. Or the wrong argument altogether.

Example of FACTS used wrongly over here recently, on TV by the cops on SPEEDING to support the use of speed cameras.
They said that speed was a causal factor in approx 28% of accidents.

Well logically that means that that 72% of accidents were caused by not speeding. So speeding is obviously far safer. They should all drive faster...

Just because a thing is a FACT does not make it meaningful. If its used incorrectly. The REAL fact we needed was how many ADDITIONAL accidents were speeding related. But because that was a smaller number, and far less impressive they didnt want to use that. The pro gun people do exactly the same tricks with every argument. Because it muddies the waters and because they themselves have a confirmation bias and are likely convinced by their own flawed arguments. And so are many of the non gun people, because they hear the same repetitive bullshit over and over and think its correct.

[Burgerman]

Heres a link to the page you took your chart from. The page that explains that you have seen a large reduction in suicides, and have seen no mass shootings in 20 years since the gun laws were enacted.

It also says that in many studies that while gun violence dropped some before the ban, it is dropping faster ever since. And that gun violence and crime has severely reduced since that date too. But you chose to ignore the link. https://www.factcheck.org/2017/10/gun-c ... a-updated/

Whats more it says that guns are still easily accessible, and available to ayone filling in all the right paperwork and jump through a few hoops. So its hardley a massive change we had there. But even so, there has been an vey noticible improvement.

Now if all guns were banned by everyone that wanted one other than for farming, work, CONTROLLED sporting guns, etc then the difference would be much greater.