Hand taps?

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Hand taps?

Postby Scooterman » 10 Nov 2019, 11:40

I wanted flatbottom taps as per the listing photo. But the ones they sent are pointed bottom. I can send them back as they’re not as described. But they were cheap. Can I grind a small part of the pointed bit of the end? I don’t need to make the end totally flat but I would like it to be a bit blunter. It’s to tap a Blind M6 hole.
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Re: Hand taps?

Postby Burgerman » 10 Nov 2019, 11:56

Cheap taps, bad idea. They wont cut well, and they are badly made.

Look at the pic of what you were supposed to get, not just the pointed bit. Then look at yours. ALL 3 have almost the same tapered thread.

One should have tapered thread. The other two should look like a bolt with flutes and one in betweener! No quality taps have a point... Look at THEIR images... What you bought, and what they sent are totally different.
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Re: Hand taps?

Postby Burgerman » 10 Nov 2019, 11:59

Like this. And they should be HARD HSS, and sharp!

Dont buy cheap taps.
Do buy a proper handle!
Do buy quality correct tapping size drills.
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Re: Hand taps?

Postby Scooterman » 11 Nov 2019, 11:19

I see what you mean, and yes I agree with you about quality. I've got a cheap taper tap and die set, not much good.

I received this message back from seller. Although I'm dubious and think that I'll receive the same taps again :problem:

Screenshot 2019-11-11 at 10.16.56.png


I can't see the point of the set I received as all 3 are taper taps, just that the thread starts slightly nearer the tip than the other/s.

No good for blind hole.
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Re: Hand taps?

Postby Burgerman » 11 Nov 2019, 11:41

The taps look like cheap rolled taps. A proper set of high speed steel ground taps will not be cheap... I have a set that are 20 years old, from M2 to M16 that are super high quality. They are as good today as when bought. For around 180 pounds, god knows what they would cost today.

But a decent single HSS ground tap in M6 will be at least 10 pounds on its own... Buy from a recognised tool shop, or read a few model engineers pages.
Its possible to get something in between. But how do you the know what the quality is like?
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Re: Hand taps?

Postby Burgerman » 11 Nov 2019, 11:42

The taps look like cheap rolled taps. A proper set of high speed steel ground taps will not be cheap... I have a set that are 20 years old, from M2 to M16 that are super high quality. They are as good today as when bought. For around 180 pounds, god knows what they would cost today. Probably double that.

But a decent single HSS ground tap in M6 will be at least 10 pounds on its own... Buy from a recognised tool shop, or read a few model engineers pages.
Its possible to get something in between. But how do you the know what the quality is like?
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Re: Hand taps?

Postby Scooterman » 12 Nov 2019, 09:36

I've been googling and see what you mean. I'll see what they're re-sending, they might be okay for what I need.

But I agree, I will get one or two ground individual taps rather than a cheap set.
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Re: Hand taps?

Postby Scooterman » 12 Nov 2019, 11:29

The new ones arrived. But I reckon they’re the same taps but they’re just ground the point off. It looks like that when you look closely at the end of the tap. And the two boxes are identical.
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Re: Hand taps?

Postby Burgerman » 12 Nov 2019, 13:22

Yes, same nasty cheap grey rolled thread soft metal junk. Throw them away, buy real HSS ground taps. Those look nohing like the precision ground taps I have here, or even their ebay picture! They look like they are made from rolled or cast metal. Totally different.

I have a set of these. They are quality. Not the best, but decent HSS ground taps good enough for model engineering and occasional use. If you buy anything as good it will cost you double this. If its cheaper its junk.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dormer-Machine ... ial&sr=1-7
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Re: Hand taps?

Postby Scooterman » 12 Nov 2019, 15:00

Yes I agree. I think I've heard of the brand of taps you link to.

Funnily down the bottom of that linked to page are the same taps I bought! They obviously flog them on Amazon as well.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/UK-Drills-1-0m ... YE720FZZ9E
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Re: Hand taps?

Postby Burgerman » 12 Nov 2019, 18:16

They will likely tap some red lester nicely. Other than that... :thumbdown:
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Re: Hand taps?

Postby Scooterman » 12 Nov 2019, 18:27

Burgerman wrote:They will likely tap some red lester nicely. Other than that... :thumbdown:

Ha! Ha! goodpost
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Re: Hand taps?

Postby Burgerman » 12 Nov 2019, 19:16

I once actually drilled and countersunk a chocolate bar to show my female carer what a countersinking bit was for that just arived by amazon. So the screw fitted with the head flush. Because you dont need a powerdrill on chocolat. And she ate it.

A drill bit, and one of these: https://media.rs-online.com/t_large/F0218573-01.jpg
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Re: Hand taps?

Postby Scooterman » 13 Nov 2019, 16:19

Burgerman wrote:I once actually drilled and countersunk a chocolate bar to show my female carer what a countersinking bit was for that just arived by amazon. So the screw fitted with the head flush. Because you dont need a powerdrill on chocolat. And she ate it.

A drill bit, and one of these: https://media.rs-online.com/t_large/F0218573-01.jpg

Less calories!

I have a countersunk bit but don't use it much as it's angle is two acute for the countersunk screws I tend to use. I don't know why?

I use a large drill bit instead.
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Re: Hand taps?

Postby Burgerman » 13 Nov 2019, 17:27

Screws and countersink bits are all supposed to be 45 degrees...

I use them on metal where I need a flush fitting bolt with zero thickness and good centering.

Like on my adapters for the wheels on the BM3 or the Salsa.

For e.g. these 6! download/file.php?id=8016&mode=view

And... download/file.php?id=7688&mode=view

These 4. The one fitted to a motor has 2 bolts in it already. Ready for a different wheel. If I need 2, I make 4. Useful for next time! 8-)

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Re: Hand taps?

Postby LROBBINS » 13 Nov 2019, 20:20

Wood screws are not 45o, aircraft rivets are not 45o -- in any case, countersink bits are available in all sorts of angles as well as the 45o used for machine screws & bolts.
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Re: Hand taps?

Postby Burgerman » 13 Nov 2019, 20:48

Wood screws? Dont use a lot of those, but they look 45? All modern flat posidrive ones look about 45 (90) to me? But I never even tried to countersink wood because the (electric) screwderiver screws them in beyond flush if you are not careful.

I agree older woordscrews are probably all sorts of angles.

I was really meaning the stuff I do on metal, bikes, chairs, like the pics above. Yes I have vavle seat cutters to do cylinder heads at 15, 22.5, 30, 45, etc. Never saw a countersink bit other than 45. But never really tried to find one!

Just looked on amazon hard to find non 45 woodworking ones.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=countersin ... _sb_noss_1
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Re: Hand taps?

Postby Burgerman » 13 Nov 2019, 21:28

Been reading about wood screws. All of mine are 80/82 degrees aparently as far as I can measure with straight edges. What I would call 41 or 42 degrees. Many in my garage, are also (90) 45 degrees. So thats weird. 40 to 42 is So close to 45 whats the point of a 2 to 3 degree change? Its all but impossible to see. They all fit and work perfectly with my 45 degree metalwork countersinkers I use for niormal bolts (as above). I just tried it on my transfer board... So similar that I doubt you would ever notice any difference. And still cant find a matching 40/42 (80/82) degree countersink tool.
Good page on angles, screws, coutersinking and woodwork. http://www.woodnewsonline.com/DTEW/1203 ... rker1.html
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Re: Hand taps?

Postby LROBBINS » 13 Nov 2019, 22:05

https://www.mcmaster.com/countersinks

An 82° countersink angle is compatible with the profile of flat- and oval-head inch screws; a 90° countersink angle is compatible with the profile of flat- and oval-head metric screws


The 100°, 110°, or 120° countersink angle is compatible with the profile of rivets.
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Re: Hand taps?

Postby Burgerman » 13 Nov 2019, 22:58

All good stuff. A bit ott for a woodscrew though. Wood is soft. Everything conforms.

I know rivets esp aircraft repairs etc are very carefully designed and controlled. Special drills, special edge formers, special angles, anti corrosion fluids, and a bunch of other stuff. You dont want fatique cracks starting. So no any old drill will do etc. You have to pass training and tests to be allowed to do a rivet.
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