Hybrid Scooter

[Daveincaol]

He is in that place that wants to split from the UK after they voted to stay, because they want independence. So they can give all their new power to brussels? Yes that makes loads of sense!
(Are you understudying THE PUB LANDLORD.) "Better Brussels than BoJo".

I too tried the generator thing. Its rediculous (SIC). Too heavy, bulky, noisy, and unweildy (SIC). And today theres (SIC) no need to resort to that because lithium is relatively** cheap*** compared to a generator and offers more range than your own time and endurance can cope with. And it saves weight instead, fits where the old lead garbage came out.

** Perhaps you have rich relatives!!!
*** I'm still researching and the best price I can get is £600 for the cells with self assembly required.

You don't know my thoughts or predilections, and Scotland is a long way from being independent.

You've done a complete turnabout:

Re: 24V Suitcase petrol generator
by [b]Burgerman » 23 Jun 2010, 19:42
No, you keep the motor running. On average, unless going ten miles uphill, 500 watts will keep up with your usage. When you stop at the other end it will be fully charged or close to it. No need to stop and charge?

Trouble is where do you get a 400 to 500 watt generator thats 24v (28.80) and small? You cant as far as I know so its a DIY job. Quite an easy one actually. The 120/240 generators are huge. Better to use an inverter to get the power from 12v. So use an inverter generator, that revs high, like the kipor (I have a page) and use its 12v out to drive the highly efficient hyperion... Untried but it will work. But still huge and expensive...

kipor... (cheapest and works great!) http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/kipor-generator.htm

I hate to ask again. But why don't powerchair manufacturers offer a chair with smaller batteries and a generator like the one I built in my bedroom. No end of people want better range. Or more speed. Why do I finish up doing all their development work! Still waiting for a "real" manufacturer to offer a chair like my fat tyred ones! One that can fit in my house, van, and go outdoors without getting hung up or rattling your teeth out.
[/b]

I have the required, quiet, 720 watt, ex MOD generator and a serviceable scooter. I am planning to follow your ten year old path and give it a go.

Dave B

[Daveincaol]

They are cheaper than generators in many cases... Certainly cheaper than a scooter and a generator.

So tell me where I can find one.

[Daveincaol]

Lead Acid battery tech is antiquated... obsolete. Users here have outstanding results with LiFePO4 cells. You are choosing to ignore the results. That's your right. Members here have worked on this for years. tested, solved and generously shared their results. In short, by sharing their R & D members have gifted you a successful working plan. There's a lot of value. It would cost anyone far more to ignore and devolupe on their own.

You are free to do as you please.

I understand that Lead/Acid technology continues to develop, and that Lithium technology is being challenged by Super Capacitors and Fuel Cells.

[Daveincaol]

Scooterman
I Modified a cycle trailer to fit my mob scooter for putting groceries etc. But sold it cos I hated towing it. At speed it used to rattle and jump over the bumps and shimmy.
Okay it you ride at snails pace.
But with lead acids or a generator in it, it’d be horrible.

So! It was a rubbish build.

Thank you, lots of luv to you too

I never said I loved you, I never bloody did!!!

[steves1977uk]

Where did you see Lead Acid is being improved? Any sources?

Lithium is the future, plain and simple! Lead Acid can only be improved so much and probably cost millions in R&D, and by that time Lithium will be even more superior.

Steve

[Daveincaol]

Where did you see Lead Acid is being improved? Any sources?

Lithium is the future, plain and simple! Lead Acid can only be improved so much and probably cost millions in R&D, and by that time Lithium will be even more superior.

Steve

Try Googling!

This is one site of many: https://www.gridtential.com/technology/
"The Silicon Advantage: Higher Power, Lower Weight
In the Silicon Joule battery, silicon wafers are used as current collectors. These wafers replace the lead grids used in traditional lead-acid monoblocs. As a result, the amount of lead used in the battery is reduced by up to 40%, significantly decreasing the overall weight of the battery. Compared to traditional monoblocs, the Silicon Joule battery is not only much lighter, it also has higher energy and power densities."

Lithium is far from being perfected. Remember the grounding of the Dreamliner and consider the many who make a living recycling dud batteries to extract the 'live' cells. And the lithium lakes are not a finite resource.

Dave B

[steves1977uk]

Great! But I noticed they don't mention cycle life, nor how big Ah they've tested. IMO another battery tech that will never be available for consumer use. Also that Silicon Joule article is two years old, meanwhile we can fit 210Ah Lithium cells and have a massive range and cycle life of 10yrs+ today. Yes it's more expensive initially but actually cheaper, say about £100 per year compared to Lead Acids which cost more!

Steve

[Burgerman]

LiFePO4 cells, as we use today offer us a 10 year or greater lifespan, compared to typically 1 year for heavily used lead batteries.

LiFePO4 cells allow us to fast charge in an hour to 100% full or better if you want. Lead batteries take 12 to 16 hours for a full charge no matter what charge rate is used.

LiFePO4 cells, allow us to build a pack for a powerchair that gives us FIVE TIMES better range. And 6 to 10 times the service life. While saving almost half the weight if the much worse lead bricks.

I can remove your prehistoric lead brick anchor weights. Fit a 200 Ah plus lithium ion phosphate pack TODAY, that sufferes no peukert losses, and will give you 500% better range than you get now. And a little more speed, and performs better because its lighter. And we charge them at 40Amps, not 8...

Lithium is far from being perfected. Remember the grounding of the Dreamliner and consider the many who make a living recycling dud batteries to extract the 'live' cells. And the lithium lakes are not a finite resource.

The dreamliner used unsafe easy to burn or explode lithium ion cobalt style cells, and the fire was caused as is frequently the case by the BMS on the battery screwing up. We only use NON BURNING and SAFE LiFePO4 cells. So the fire thing cannot happen. They are safer than the lead bricks. Lead produces hydrogen and oxygen when overcharged which explodes and covers you in sulfuric acid. So you are uninformed in the extreme.

Also LiFePO4 contains almost no actual lithium. So no lakes needed. Also no cobalt either... Its less energy dense that Lithium polymer, or lithium cobalt ion (phone/laptop/tesla car style cells) but it has MUCH longer lifespan, and its intrinsically safe, safer than lead.

++++++++++

I understand that Lead/Acid technology continues to develop, and that Lithium technology is being challenged by Super Capacitors and Fuel Cells.

They have been trying to get better performance from lead for a century plus. And they are as developed in real terms as they are ever going to be.
The silicone ones you show above never showed any improvements in practice and end up with higher impedance, so worse for high currents we need than a normal deep cycle lead battery.

Lithium isnt being challenged even remotely by super capacitors! They are useless for high density energy storage, and only of any help where a low C rate and undersized lithium battery is utilised to get some short term high current to improve C rate.

Fuel cells will always be a waste of time. And need hydrogen. Which has to be manufactured. Which is hard to store, and costly to make. Thats why all the serious EVs like teslas new truck with sub 3 second zero to 60, and 500 mile range, uses simple lithium cells. You cant get high currents out of a fuel cell. So you need a large lithium pack as well. And if we have hydrogen, we dont NEED a fuel cell. Your cars engine for e.g runs great on hydrogen directly!

[Daveincaol]

But he's have to use a smart charger.

Let's say I'm convinced and will go Lithium. Point me to some smart chargers. I'm assuming we are talking about balance chargers.

Dave B

[Burgerman]

Theres only one worth considering right now. The cellpro PL8v2. And that will still need a profile that is set up by me including a bunch of parameters that are hidden, and the latest firmware 3.33 (should arrive now with that anyway as its some years old) as it has some changes that I persuaded them to make to make it charge both lead and large lithium phosphate batteries correctly.

It also g\has PC software to match, and thats pretty much essential, and can test and monitor batteries as we charge or discharge too. So thats where you would start. That in turn needs a power supply Is a 0-40A charger, any chemstry.

It can do the explodey laptop style lithium ion cells, or the even worse LiPo cells. And it can do all types of lead PROPERLY if set correctly, and all types on zinc based cells, nickel metal, etc and more. From a watch battery to a full sized EV. Its 1344 watts. And 2 or more can be linked so 8s, 16s, or more.