EW-36 Mobility Scooter

[Scooterman]

At first look this scooter looks pretty good, apart from it could do with a bigger seat. A guy on eBay UK sells them, Chinese import I assume. But surely illegal in UK?

If you check out the specs 48V 20Ah I assume 4S 12V lead acid?

Check out the reviews, it's a bit of a deathtrap.

http://www.usatechguide.org/itemreview.php?itemid=1678

[Burgerman]

That converted to lithium would be quite good as a scooter. Although from other posts, it seems the specs are rather exadurated in regards actual speed and definitely in range. It uses low quality AGM batteries too, which are good for only a few months according to some reports on this and other forums. And a few horror stories on utube.

Realistically, it is quite efficient because of the voltage being high and its brushless motor. But its speedometer somewhat exadurates to tell you its faster than it is or so I read. Even so its faster than a disability scooter. And its let down by trying to use 4x 20Ah series lead batteries. Thats exactly the same as 2x 40Ah batteries. They are a little on the small side to be providing the amount of amps needed at speed. So they suffer. But replace those with a 16S LiFePO4 pack around 30Ah, and you will get less voltage drop, much more range, and a battery that doesn't give up in months. So its crying out for a conversion more than any scooter. And a useful speed increase.

Its got a few bad reviews. But on that site most do. People with no issues dont post. So those kind of reviews may help but are rather unreliable.

[foghornleghorn]

Only thing making it illegal as a mobility scooter would be breaking the 8mph limit but I'm sure you could get it registered as an invalid carriage and as long as you didn't go around at top speed everywhere nobody would care.

[Burgerman]

People around here are using them as mobility scooters as like you say nobody cares. They obviously have no type approval for mobility use (so to get one registered as a mobility device you would need to get a special approval done. As a one off. And it doesn't comply. So you would need a way to restrict its speed to 8mph. But who cares. The problem is just that legally they are supposed to be registered as a normal scooter for the road. I think thats the type approval it already has??? That means shopping centres and footpath use is technically illegal. You could get stopped by the police and prosecuted for no road tax or insurance, or driving license in theory? But right now even if you report someone for a violent attack, or vandalism, complete with name or address of the criminal, the police WONT prosecute them even if you insist. So theres not much chance of the cops bothering you! Just use sensibly. Same as my BM3. Go faster where its not bothering anyone.

[Scooterman]

Have out seen one out and about BM? I never have, although I think big mob scooters are more popular up north than down here.

In percentage terms how much more efficient would you say a brushless dc motor is compared to a brushed one?

Also why are brushless not used more often in mob equipment?

Also didn't you try a pair of brushless when you were building your BM3 but couldn't get them to work properly with the Roboteq. Sorry in advance if I've got that all about cock.

Do the high tech lithium powered fold up scooters use brushless? Is it likewise for the lithium power add ons for manual chairs?

None of fold up scooters or add one are cheap. Several £1000s usually.

[Scooterman]

But replace those with a 16S LiFePO4 pack around 30Ah, and you will get less voltage drop, much more range, and a battery that doesn't give up in months. So its crying out for a conversion more than any scooter. And a useful speed increase..

That is very true as it's the only scooter I know off with a 48V motor. I won't be buying one though as I prefer the wig-wag throttle to twist grip.

[Scooterman]

Also do you reckon it has regen braking cos the spec and photo show motorcycle type F&R brake levers

[foghornleghorn]

They obviously have no type approval for mobility use (so to get one registered as a mobility device you would need to get a special approval done. As a one off.

Not sure you will need type approval. Registering as Invalid Carriage puts it in a rather vague grey area.

[Scooterman]

The DVLA registered my scooter twice . Every year I get two road tax certificates with different reg numbers, both Q plates.

[Burgerman]

Not sure you will need type approval. Registering as Invalid Carriage puts it in a rather vague grey area.

The paperwork asks for details, that allow type approval to be checked. So you cant. VIN numbers, or initial registration documents inserted into the crate by the manufacturer, inc shipping taxation class all allow the taxation class (the type approved classification or intended vehicle use) to be checked. If it doesn't, then they will need to have a special test, at a gov test centre, to determine taxation or type approval class it has to conform to. As daft as it seems, I had to do this with my van since it was a US spec vehicle. Before it could be registered. These are different regarding things like brakes, any speed limitations, emissions, lighting (fog lamp and indicators on my import van), etc and the type of insurance and tax class (cost!) too. As well as the laws that it has to obey. Such as footpath or pedestrian areas or speed limits, parking, MOTs, etc.

So probably better to not try... And just be discrete. Or you will need to modify its speed etc. And pay for a single vehicle test. The cops have better things to do. Like sitting in the mcdonalds.

So before you can register it as a mobility class3 type you have to fight this bullshit https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-approval/ind ... e-approval

[foghornleghorn]

Invalid carriage ≠ motor vehicle

You would be surprised how little info you have to give to get a V5 for one.

[Burgerman]

Maybe. Maybe not. The gov doesn't do anything to make stuff simple.

[Twinpanther]

Sorry, late to the thread.

I bought an EW-38 almost 2 years ago viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5760. Same as the 36 just slightly larger motors I believe. I'm 250 lbs and with new batteries it topped out at 17 MPH (27 KPH) but that didn't last long. It took me about 10 miles once but within about a month I wouldn't trust it to take me more than 3 miles or so. It was great for me as the store was just a couple miles away and I was allowed to drive it in the supermarket so I never had to leave it's comfort.

However, it's CoG is horrible (the 36 comes with wheelie bars though, I believe). Having the seat in the center position I put myself on my back on day 3 accelerating from a dead stop on level ground. So, no accelerating up to even a small curb or speed bump. Coast across or slow is fine but you will feel the jolt from the bump.

My hands being weak the E ABS Brakes worked great. I almost never had to use the hand brake for anything.

Tons of cool, albeit unneeded, extras like alarm (LOUD), remote start and something else I'm forgetting.

Anyway, enjoy the scooter if you go that way. I sold mine after a year to a nice lady for $700 and her eZip scooter for my daughter. That's about a $1000 hit for one years use. But it was a ton of fun and it either annoyed the old folks in the stores or they'd love it and stop me to ask about it.

[ex-Gooserider]

Have out seen one out and about BM? I never have, although I think big mob scooters are more popular up north than down here.

In percentage terms how much more efficient would you say a brushless dc motor is compared to a brushed one?

Also why are brushless not used more often in mob equipment?

Also didn't you try a pair of brushless when you were building your BM3 but couldn't get them to work properly with the Roboteq. Sorry in advance if I've got that all about cock.

Do the high tech lithium powered fold up scooters use brushless? Is it likewise for the lithium power add ons for manual chairs?

None of fold up scooters or add one are cheap. Several £1000s usually.

In theory a brushless motor is MUCH more efficient than brushed if operated in it's best range. However if you hook it up to a gearbox, you get the same losses from the gearbox as you would with a brush motor, which eats up a lot of the advantage.

Downside is that they are very high current demand at low speeds, and have problems with small low speed moves.... Since this is something that is very essential to chair users, most of the major manufacturers have opted to stick with brush motors. There is also a lot of 'inertia' in that it would take a lot of R&D effort to come up with controllers and such that would work with brushless motors, it's a lot easier to stick with the well proven brush motor setups.

BM can do more details, but his first effort at a fancy 'do-everything' chair was an Invacare that used their 'Gearless-Brushless' motors - he found that they would draw several hundred amps trying to do zero-speed turns on grass or carpet. This would cause the controller to overheat and shut down. Invacare ended up giving him a refund and he now has his Sunrise chair instead...

Some of the Chinese folders do use a geared brushless motor setup - but this only has some power saving advantage, and is mostly part of the general theme of sacrificing everything else in order to get the weight down...

ex-Gooserider

[Burgerman]

BM can do more details, but his first effort at a fancy 'do-everything' chair was an Invacare that used their 'Gearless-Brushless' motors - he found that they would draw several hundred amps trying to do zero-speed turns on grass or carpet.

190+ battery amps, turning on my bedroom carpet. EMPTY!
Followed by a call to invacare to tell them they were idiots.
They refunded in full - no questions asked. Faulty by design.

[Mechniki]

My bedroom has a remnant carpet so if it lifts a bit not a problem. But the carpet in my lounge next to the PC, tears, gaping holes. My hallway from my front door is two rugs, and they are often being dragged around by me.