Removing BMS & wiring in Pl8v2

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Re: Removing BMS & wiring in Pl8v2

Postby Burgerman » 09 Feb 2019, 19:41

It will take a while to try to balance the mess. Just let it, and when done post a screenshot.
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Re: Removing BMS & wiring in Pl8v2

Postby steves1977uk » 09 Feb 2019, 23:43

There was a reg file I uploaded somewhere on here that shows all hidden folders, files and extensions. Here... download/file.php?id=8890 Unzip and merge.

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Re: Removing BMS & wiring in Pl8v2

Postby grazy+1949 » 10 Feb 2019, 01:53

BM-GB-Presets-charge.jpg


Hi BM

Thanks for all your help and patience and for sharing your bespoke presets.PS8 file. Thanks also to the other members who helped me to remove my BMS from my pack and balance wire it to the Revolectrix Cellpro Powerlab 8v2. My pack has been subject to incredible abuse. It was charged for 2 years with a basic 10A (blind) charger and then I forced it to power a gross weight of 31 stone up a mountain road (gradients 20% to 30%) for 3 weeks, until it demonstrated a big drop in performance. It started to fail on me and the BMS would shut the battery down frequently.

Thanks to my wonderful wife for driving up mountain roads to recover me and my vehicle, several times.

I took the decision to go all Cellpro PL8v2, ie. an intelligent charging system with pack specific charging presets and cell balancing wires.

I will be very interested to see if the pack can recover with this market leading charging system and BM's fine tuned presets.

I am developing a prototype EV Rover for the adventurous Mobility user. I am going to need 48v and a lot of Ah. Nobody knows how many yet. I will eventually get there.

cheers

grazy+1949
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Re: Removing BMS & wiring in Pl8v2

Postby Burgerman » 10 Feb 2019, 10:54

I suspect the pack is pretty unhealthy. But at least it is FINALLY getting charged correctly. It was unbalanced on this charge (that mess on the graph) and may have high resistance cells. And is still too small capacity to do what you are doing. So is getting tortured still.

You now must use a CELL MONITOR. Never allow any cell to go below 2.9V stationary, or 2.5V under load. This is really only needed because the pack is too small for the load. And likely not very healthy so will have high volt drop under load. The cell log will plug into the 9 wires that go to each cell.

Also, you can now REDUCE the termination current, in your preset by 30 to 35%. Cant remember what I set it to, but it was a "safe" figure. Charge is ending very soon. Its not essential.

Also, from experience, looking at that graph, your pack is now about 38 to 40Ah. If it was 50Ah or more before, its probably not now...
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Re: Removing BMS & wiring in Pl8v2

Postby grazy+1949 » 10 Feb 2019, 19:02

Thanks for the valuable analysts BM. I'll take on board all you have said and make the adjustments. I will order a cell monitor from DigiKey.com, unless you have a better supplier in mind? Yes the pack @ 35-40Ah is tiny for what I do. I will when I can afford it increase the pack by a factor of x 6, probably going to 48v at the same time. Thanks to BM, Woodygb, elryko1992 my programmers: Tom and Tony and all the other people who helped me get my LiFe pack linked up to a Revolectrix Cellpro PL8v2, with balance leads and a fully professional set of presets. This is an amazing forum. :worship

cheers

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Re: Removing BMS & wiring in Pl8v2

Postby Burgerman » 11 Feb 2019, 11:23

probably going to 48v at the same time.


There will be trouble ahead... Song. :clap
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Re: Removing BMS & wiring in Pl8v2

Postby grazy+1949 » 15 Feb 2019, 14:46

My EV ATV Mobility Rover is now BNS-less and being charged by a Cellpro PL8v2 running on Burgermans presets. The difference in the amount of charge that the pack now accepts is really noticeable. I did a photo shoot a few days ago on a motorcycle enduro circuit . It went well . The Rover did all the climbs and tricky descents really well. I was in agony after this long drawN out shoot and had to lay on ice packs from 6pm untill 2am So the following picks came at a high cost

I sent the charging graphs to BM , who says that I have about 40Ah. I am amazed what this vehicle can do with just 24v 40Ah (reduction factor = 25:1), but I of course know that by using the pack under such severe conditions , it will not last long. I am taking BM's advice and will be ordering a cell monitor soon to ensure that my cells NEVER drop below 2.5v under load. Also I am planning to buy a much larger pack +BLDC motors soon.

My pack comprises 64 X Weter 26.6 X 65 mm cells. It's a golf buggy pack and they have the brand name Weter on them , but carry no other markings. I am not sure what the original Ah of the pack was, although BM puts it at 50+ Ah from studying the PL graphs. It would be nice to know the output of these cells.

cheers

grazy+1949
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Re: Removing BMS & wiring in Pl8v2

Postby grazy+1949 » 15 Feb 2019, 14:54

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Re: Removing BMS & wiring in Pl8v2

Postby expresso » 15 Feb 2019, 16:53

nice looks like fun -
Quickie P222se - 60Ah ADD ON
Quickie S646se - 150Ah LifePo4
Quickie P220 - Indoor Chair
Bounder Plus - 180Ah LifePo4
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Re: Removing BMS & wiring in Pl8v2

Postby grazy+1949 » 16 Feb 2019, 01:10

High Guys

As I use my EV ATV Mobility Rover under extreme conditions Burgerman has suggested that I should fit an 8S cell voltage log. This device can be plugged into the D-Sub connector on the pack. If at any time a cell drops to 2.5v, it will sound an alarm. I will know and stop immediately to avoid damaging that cell .
This is what I have found. Is it suitable for real time cell voltage feed back? It doesn't look like it plugs into the 7 balance leads that go to the PL8 ?

https://www.rcmodelscout.com/Batteries- ... Lipo/41057

cheers

grazy+1949
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Re: Removing BMS & wiring in Pl8v2

Postby Burgerman » 16 Feb 2019, 02:20

9 WIRES...
Yes it does. Be sure it can be switched to the correct chemistry.
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Re: Removing BMS & wiring in Pl8v2

Postby grazy+1949 » 16 Feb 2019, 17:26

Hi Guys

I need one of these . Does anyone know where to buy it?
cheers
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Re: Removing BMS & wiring in Pl8v2

Postby danpayton » 18 Feb 2019, 05:12

its not the most well-built thing in the world.. but i got it from amazon..lol. here ya go!
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MZIAJI0/re ... ACbQDA22D6
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Re: Removing BMS & wiring in Pl8v2

Postby Burgerman » 18 Feb 2019, 09:49

As a warning, that device doesent measure each cell. So you wont find it much help on that too small 50Ah pack. You will find that one cell group will go too low long before the others. So you may have an OK total voltage while nuking one cell group...

So this one above download/file.php?id=10286&mode=view is much better.
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Re: Removing BMS & wiring in Pl8v2

Postby expresso » 18 Feb 2019, 19:18

Quickie P222se - 60Ah ADD ON
Quickie S646se - 150Ah LifePo4
Quickie P220 - Indoor Chair
Bounder Plus - 180Ah LifePo4
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Re: Removing BMS & wiring in Pl8v2

Postby Burgerman » 18 Feb 2019, 23:15

Thats better.
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Re: Removing BMS & wiring in Pl8v2

Postby danpayton » 18 Feb 2019, 23:31

nice! and its also CHEEP! lol china to the rescue!

I'll build up my own pack for some other projects eventually.. but the more data and info you can keep an eye on the better!
love it!
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Re: Removing BMS & wiring in Pl8v2

Postby grazy+1949 » 17 Mar 2019, 02:49

Hi Guys,

I am pleased to report that the removal of the BMS from my 45 Ah LIFE pack, has been a great success. By using a Cellpro PL8v2, I am getting more power into the pack and this is clearly noticeable on the steep hills I climb.

I have ordered 16 pieces 3.2v 120 Ah cells from China and will provisionally run my all terrain rover, configured as, 24v 240Ah. Eventually when I find a suitable trans axle with a 48V BLDC motor, I plan to reconfigure the pack.

However : right at the moment, I can't get the PL8V2 to charge the pack. I am using a preset that BM developed and sent to me, which has been excellent.

The problem started when I tried to initiate a charge cyl. and I got this error message on the PL8

"Bad Cell Count, Node Wiring XH"

Please note that the current charge level of the pack is 25.4v

I checked the voltages, continuity and ordering of the 9 balance wires and I found that the small 22 AWG negative was open circuit, so I stripped the pack down and soldered it back in place.

This evening , I have checked the individual voltages of the balance wires and they are all correct, however the error message persists and I cannot charge my pack.

I would really appreciate any help, suggestions and advice that you guys can give me , to get things working again.

cheers

Grazy1949
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2-Grazy1949-BM-LIFE-Preset---Error-saftey-code-20.jpg
1-Grazy1949-BM-LIFE-Preset---Error-saftey-code-20.jpg
0-Grazy1949-BM-LIFE-Preset---Error-saftey-code-20.jpg
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Re: Removing BMS & wiring in Pl8v2

Postby Burgerman » 17 Mar 2019, 05:36

First tick the ADVANCED box!

2nd, check that there is 0V and correct full pack Volts on the + Banana plugs and that you plugged them in.

Three things cause that.

1. Missing or no connection balance wire. Was it soldered or crimped? Are any connectors crimped? The one that came off? If that wire touched a low or high voltage part of the pack you may have damaged the PL8 but that takes a lot of doing normally so dont panic.

2. You forgot to connect the PL8 Banana connectors or they have no connection to the pack.

3. You unticked the "use bananas" tick box on the screen that you see just after clicking start.

Or you didnt reset the charger. You are using the PC right? Or you changed a setting, use the wrong preset or something. Turn off FUEL. Set to NO.
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Re: Removing BMS & wiring in Pl8v2

Postby grazy+1949 » 17 Mar 2019, 15:49

Hi BM

Thanks for your quick response. I charged the pack last night with a 50€ "intelligent charger", Which I turned off when it reached 28-8v . I measures the current at the batteries Anderson out put and it was 28.4v

I have run thru all you instructions. When I have discharged the battery on my run later today, I will check that I don't have "Use Banana Plugs" Unticked .

I have shown a lot of info and expained what I have done and don't know how to do on the attached screengrab.

cheers

Grazy1949
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Re: Removing BMS & wiring in Pl8v2

Postby Burgerman » 17 Mar 2019, 16:29

Thanks for your quick response. I charged the pack last night with a 50€ "intelligent charger", Which I turned off when it reached 28-8v . I measures the current at the batteries Anderson out put and it was 28.4v


That will ruin the battery super fast. I cannot stress how much you cannot do that... You are charging with NO balance mechanism. So half the cells will be wildly overcharged and damaged. And the others undercharged = total correct voltage. :thumbdown:
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Re: Removing BMS & wiring in Pl8v2

Postby Burgerman » 17 Mar 2019, 16:33

You have a communication error. Try a different USB port, different USB cable. set comm to AUTO. And update the charger. Then press start.
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Re: Removing BMS & wiring in Pl8v2

Postby Burgerman » 17 Mar 2019, 16:42

Just read:

THIS PROBLEM STARTED WHEN THE RED PLASTIC INDICATING RING ON THE POLE MELTED ETC

What on earth does this mean in english.
You are using the correct safe high current capable banana connectors as instructed right? Not some generic rubbish that dont work and overheat?

PHOTO and better description of what you are talking about please because that description is like a word salad!
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Re: Removing BMS & wiring in Pl8v2

Postby Burgerman » 17 Mar 2019, 16:56

Because you tend to go off and do your own thing and dont listen to details or read, here is what I think has happened.

1. You did not use the CORRECT safe 4MM Banana plugs. And substituted some crappy audiophile gold plated ones that do not work, can be shorted together, and are incapable of heavy currents.

2. They then overheat and the heaT has UNSOLDERED the connectors or one of them, inside the PL8. Take it apart and LOOK.

Throw away any gold plated, or bare shortable connectors as soon as possible. And ONLY use these:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Red-Black-10 ... SwBPxcdXIO

All the rest will fail, overheat or allow the battery to be shorted and blow the fuse you HAVE installed in the charge cable.
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Re: Removing BMS & wiring in Pl8v2

Postby grazy+1949 » 17 Mar 2019, 18:16

Yep that sounds on the money to me. Where did I buy these expensive gold plated banana plugs? Right first time! In a specialist audio repair shop. I'll take a look inside the Pl8 and expect to find 1 or 2 solder joints that have melted.

Thank you BM :worship

cheers

Grazy1949
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Re: Removing BMS & wiring in Pl8v2

Postby steves1977uk » 17 Mar 2019, 22:24

Not using the safe banana plugs is just asking for trouble! You can't use any old banana plugs, even expensive gold plated audio ones! They have to be properly insulated and rated for 40A.

Steve
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Re: Removing BMS & wiring in Pl8v2

Postby Burgerman » 17 Mar 2019, 22:28

The gold plated audio ones are bling for marketing. Everyone knows they "sound" better! :lol:
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Re: Removing BMS & wiring in Pl8v2

Postby grazy+1949 » 18 Mar 2019, 03:22

Hi,

I have att pics of the failed banana 4mm plug, which took the current to the PL8. I have connected those leads directly through the holes in the output posts of the Max Power 1200W PS. Is that acceptable?

As you can see the pos banana plug from the PS output overheated and fell apart. After that moment, the PL5 not only stopped working on the"BM use this" LIFE preset, but on all the default presets as well.

Do I open up the PS or PL8 first?

cheers

Grazy1949
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Re: Removing BMS & wiring in Pl8v2

Postby Burgerman » 18 Mar 2019, 10:42

I thought you meant the plugs were used on the PL8. I was expecting the wires inside the PL8 to have been unsoldered due to heat from those crappy banana gold things.

ALL 4MM bananas are unsuitable for the power supply.
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Re: Removing BMS & wiring in Pl8v2

Postby grazy+1949 » 18 Mar 2019, 12:59

Hi

The excess heat occurred at the pos outlet from the PS. The PS currently powers up and shows 24.5v

The PL8 powers up and the SW opens on the PC, but even with PS and PL8 powered up. The software will not import the preset file BM sent. [NB: the file has the correct icon and file extension]

When it experienced the failed charge cyl. it deleted the preset from the PL8.

I have the preset file from BM called "Use this one.PS8". How do I get the SW to import it (Last time I did it . I imported it with the complete system powered up.) I imported it into preset slot 25. It would not import into slot Nº 1.

I am now going to study the PL8 .PDF to look for info on CRS errors and perhaps how to format the the PL8 presets.

Any ideas please?


cheers

Grazy1949
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