I wonder where they get their ideas from for this wheelchair

[wheelchairer]

I wonder where they get their ideas from for this wheelchair

Even your language LOL

https://www.thepowerchaircompany.co.uk/

Thought you would be impressed on with the tilt facility for pressure relief. Managed to get one off eBay £6000.

[Burgerman]

Thats tom. Theres been some good and bad reports on here. Your mileage may vary. He makes a loose clone, of lower build standards (personally I think they look unfinished) of my old BM2 chair. He also lengthens the whelbase, and adds a load of heavy seating that makes them too top heavy. The reason I didnt add the lift/tilt/recline etc to my own BM2/3 chairs is because the chairs wheelbase and rearward CG makes it unstable and making it longer ruins its tight light short almost sport manual like feel. And so I bought a salsa and made a few minor changes.

[wheelchairer]

Hi John, can you help again please. It would be interesting to try your BM2 R-net settings for speed control et cetera on this chair, before I messed with it myself. It has the Odyssey batteries with the Sunrise medical motors. Could you also give me a copy of the PL 8 preset for charging the batteries.

[Burgerman]

Those are 8mph motors, linix. I dont have those on any chairs. I do have a set in a box.

My BM2/3 chairs were pilot plus/roboteq not r-net.

Tell me what you are trying to do, if it has any seating/gyro stuff, and I will see wat I can do.
So hHat I get the motor settings correct, and left right/back forwards etc in the right direction, its best to let me mod your profile. So upload it here.

I will do a Odyssey profile when I know if you are charging via anderson or XLR!

[wheelchairer]

So here is the 2 R-net settings I have for my 2 wheelchairs (both BM clones).

The Tango wheelchair is the one from Tom. The BM wheelchair is the one I have built.

I prefer the settings on the BM out of the 2 wheelchairs. On the BM I have optimised top speed to achieve the fastest results. I don't see the point in having 5 different profiles, each with 4 different speed settings. I just had two profiles indoor and outdoor. The indoor on the lowest setting is very slow, which I also like. However, I was interested to see how you would set it up and try that just out of interest. It would be nice if you would do both. Mimic the BM settings onto the Tango wheelchair, and a set settings how you would do it..

I do have another problem which I don't know whether it is related. The trip distance has a total of 106 miles. However, there is no speed indication and it is not clocking up any more mileage. So it's difficult to know when the chair needs charging.

[Burgerman]

What motors do they have?
Speed?

[Burgerman]

One is configured for a 120A 4 pole the other for 2 pole 90Amp PM...

They are both set to steer so badly that I couldnt hit a barn door at 2mph. What I call hovercraft steering. I could not cope with either for 5 mins.

Are your hands normal, and is the joystick and hand position technique correct? And are you able to use the correct technique?

If the tango programming was supplied with 4 pole motors by tom then he doesent know what he is doing. At all. If its something you have done then I am wrong.

[wheelchairer]

I am a C4/5 incomplete tetraplegic, with:
1. BM clone with 8 mph motors, AMT Schmid 013552, R-net system, 150Ah lithium.
2. Tom BM clone. 8mph motors, linix, R-net system, 2 odyssey batteries,
3. Lifestand 5.6 mph motors, R-net system, 112Ah lithium.

[Burgerman]

OK I can do the first two.
Presumably these are 120A power modules as nothing less will work properly with 8mph motors? If not then my programming wont work propery either. At least one existing profile is set up for a 90A unit...

The lifestand, what motors?

These should have:
BM AMT 45mOhm 12V brake?
The "Tango" profile is used with Linix motors 8mph? should have 35mOhm and 12v brakes...
The lifestand I dont know, send me its profile.

[Burgerman]

These are not interchangable.

Test before making any changes at all.
This was the settings that I normally recommend for anyone as a starting point on a 6 to 7mph chair.
8 is so close that it should be pretty close to ideal. But the turn speed, and Min turn speed, ONLY may need reducing by a couple of digits. The motor compensation etc should all be correct for the respective motors.

If you dont find this easy and accurate then either your joystick is mounted incorrectly and doesent allow you to correctly hold the body of the pod with your hand, or you are attempting to drive by holding only the joystick know which will never work. These settings allow linear accurate easy intuiive control if you have normal hand control. You may not have.

Theres only 1 profile enabled. Thats all thats required. Set speed accordingly.

[wheelchairer]

It seems I have the wrong software.

And I don't know whether the above is related to the fact pressing left goes right pressing right goes left pressing forward goes back pressing back goes forward. Everything is in reverse from what it should be.

[Burgerman]

Most people do. What do you have?

PM me...

[ex-Gooserider]

It seems I have the wrong software.

And I don't know whether the above is related to the fact pressing left goes right pressing right goes left pressing forward goes back pressing back goes forward. Everything is in reverse from what it should be.

Which motor goes to which plug on the controller is more or less arbitrary and random - try swapping the motor plugs... In addition which direction a motor spins is also depends on how it's wired... Most of this can be fixed in the programming software, or by simply swapping plugs / motor wiring... Basically you swap the plugs until moving the joystick to one side makes the correct motor spin, then swap the motor wires so they spin in the right direction...

For the programming error message, this is normal if you have a 'dealer level' dongle, as you are trying to load a file that has stuff changed in it that can't be changed by the dealer level software... However it will load if you say yes...

(There is a work-around to use manufacturer level R-net software w/ a dealer dongle that is described elsewhere on the forum...)

ex-Gooserider

[Burgerman]

Just set the turn direction, and the motor spin direction to the opposite in the software under motor. All fixed. NOT in joystick.

Here, to swap left/right, and the two above as well (should you need to swap forwards and reverse too). There is no standardised or correct settng here. You use what works on your chair/motors.

In your case you would set all 3 to "yes".

For the programming error message, this is normal if you have a 'dealer level' dongle, as you are trying to load a file that has stuff changed in it that can't be changed by the dealer level software... However it will load if you say yes...

As exgoose says.

[wheelchairer]

So when I loaded Johns settings, the back rest worked as normal. The foot rest did move down and backwards, but it wouldn't move forwards and upwards, so it is now stuck in the fully down position stopping the casters from turning when steering. I have been messing about with this but I am not making any progress. Any suggestions please.

[Burgerman]

I didnt change any of the seating settings. So they should be unchanged from what was there before.

So I am confused as to what you did.
All I did was take the two files above that you uploaded and set the DRIVING characteristics, and the motor compensation to match each motor type.
No seating options were changed. Likewise directon and forward and reverse, and brake voltages etc are all unchanged. It should work exactly as previously with only driving parameters altered.

Thats why I wanted YOUR 2 chairs profiles to modify rather than just sending you mine.

[wheelchairer]

I didnt change any of the seating settings. So they should be unchanged from what was there before.

So I am confused as to what you did.
All I did was take the two files above that you uploaded and set the DRIVING characteristics, and the motor compensation to match each motor type.
No seating options were changed. Likewise directon and forward and reverse, and brake voltages etc are all unchanged. It should work exactly as previously with only driving parameters altered.

Thats why I wanted YOUR 2 chairs profiles to modify rather than just sending you mine.

yes that's my fault. Somehow I've got the files mixed up and cannot find the original. If you can point me in the right direction I will fiddle with it until things are sorted.

[wheelchairer]

So when I loaded Johns settings, the back rest worked as normal.

well I thought I had given you the original file, but the original file did not put everything back to how it was, so my mistake.

[wheelchairer]

Bingo! That's worked. Had to do a couple of adjustments, the joystick axis, and the mode labels/pictures. Thanks very much John for your behind-the-scenes help clicks a bit. Much appreciated.

[Burgerman]

Change joystick axis back.
It alters many things you really dont want to change.

Set those things in the motor section.
See PM.

[wheelchairer]

Change joystick axis back.
It alters many things you really dont want to change.

Set those things in the motor section.
See PM.

Yes I carried out those instructions mate from your PM. That's what I was meaning by bingo!

It's quite interesting trying your settings. Very similar to what I had before.

I am tetraplegic so I don't have the hand function you have, the dexterity. I tend to rest my hand on the pod, with my thumb and finger round the base of the joystick, and I have the joystick back as far as possible and central to the armrest. Overall this gives me quite a stable steering. (1)

I had my settings so the wheelchair would stop as quick as possible. It would go from about 9 miles an hour to dead stop within 3 feet, with this wheelchair and your settings I would say the braking distance seems about 5 feet. I had the AMT motors, 1 of them which has just died. I 1st noticed the grinding of the gearbox was happening when I was breaking. Do you think having the braking distance sets so short may have contributed to the breaking down of the gearbox? If not causing the breakdown of the gearbox I would probably go back to that shorter braking distance.

Also these 8mph linix motors don't seem as fast as the AM T, is that what you would expect? Would it be okay to increase the speed by increasing the output voltage voltage from 24.5 to 25.5 volts, like I did with the AMT.

Most of the settings I find your settings perfectly good, but on the top speed it's a little bit too sensitive for me. If I get a bit of a waggle because of a bump, I don't have the hand stability to maintain the steering, so I think I will lessen the left and right sensitivity, just on the top speed.

And though I do like being able to do a wheelie, it just starts wheel flutter on the casters when the wheel lands back down. So unless I can sort out the we'll flutter, I think I will be forced to slow the acceleration.



I actually bought this wheelchair second-hand. So I still have a lot of tweaking to do. I've just put on much lower that rest on, I cannot cope with those high back rests like the ones you have. I preferred the manoeuvrability of my back rest being about 2 or 3 inches below my shoulder blades. (1) And I think I'm going to get some banana armrests. Which become like a Swiss army knife, being able to use them for several jobs such as supporting my mobile phone, TV remotes using Velcro.

I think you should think about motorrising the foot rest. You can bring the foot rest right back so the wheels cannot turn on the caster, and caster wheel becomes impeded, but it does give you a next inch or 2 when you are manoeuvring in tight spaces. Helps me greatly with my bladder.

It's hard to know until you have experienced it, I always thought suspension would be a good idea, but on the storm and this chair I'm not sure I like the way compromises the stability of the chair. Going to have a look to see if I can adjust the suspension. I think the anti-tip with suspension is a neat idea though.

[Burgerman]

I had my settings so the wheelchair would stop as quick as possible. It would go from about 9 miles an hour to dead stop within 3 feet, with this wheelchair and your settings I would say the braking distance seems about 5 feet. I had the AMT motors, 1 of them which has just died. I 1st noticed the grinding of the gearbox was happening when I was breaking. Do you think having the braking distance sets so short may have contributed to the breaking down of the gearbox? If not causing the breakdown of the gearbox I would probably go back to that shorter braking distance.

By "braking distance" do you mean the actual braking (back stick braking) or do you mean forwards deceleration? And minimum forward acceleration?
You can set these to whatever you prefer. I like back stick braking to be rapid. And when I release the joystick to the centre position, for it to roll smoothly.
Remember these are from my 6mph chair. So it will require slightly different settings on your 8mph one. Esp on the turn speed. In fact it will mostly make it turn faster, and accelerate faster. (forward acceleration, and turn acceleration) So you could reduce these slightly.

Also these 8mph linix motors don't seem as fast as the AM T, is that what you would expect? Would it be okay to increase the speed by increasing the output voltage voltage from 24.5 to 25.5 volts, like I did with the AMT.

Yes as long as you use lithium.

Most of the settings I find your settings perfectly good, but on the top speed it's a little bit too sensitive for me. If I get a bit of a waggle because of a bump, I don't have the hand stability to maintain the steering, so I think I will lessen the left and right sensitivity, just on the top speed.

Thats mosly caused by the fact that your 8mph motors have less torque, and less control. Which is one of the reasons the 6mph ones are better. Reducing the turn rate may help. (turn speed). And increasing the voltage to make it faster will make it worse as less available headroom for turn correction due to compensation.

And though I do like being able to do a wheelie, it just starts wheel flutter on the casters when the wheel lands back down. So unless I can sort out the we'll flutter, I think I will be forced to slow the acceleration.

The increased acceleration is caused by the fact that you are going to 8mph in the same time (forward acceleation) instead of 6. Although personally I have this set to 100 on my own...

I actually bought this wheelchair second-hand. So I still have a lot of tweaking to do. I've just put on much lower that rest on, I cannot cope with those high back rests like the ones you have. I preferred the manoeuvrability of my back rest being about 2 or 3 inches below my shoulder blades. (1) And I think I'm going to get some banana armrests. Which become like a Swiss army knife, being able to use them for several jobs such as supporting my mobile phone, TV remotes using Velcro.

I think you should think about motorrising the foot rest. You can bring the foot rest right back so the wheels cannot turn on the caster, and caster wheel becomes impeded, but it does give you a next inch or 2 when you are manoeuvring in tight spaces. Helps me greatly with my bladder.

That makes no sense. How can you manoever if the casters hit your feet?

[wheelchairer]

I had my settings so the wheelchair would stop as quick as possible. It would go from about 9 miles an hour to dead stop within 3 feet, with this wheelchair and your settings I would say the braking distance seems about 5 feet. I had the AMT motors, 1 of them which has just died. I 1st noticed the grinding of the gearbox was happening when I was breaking. Do you think having the braking distance sets so short may have contributed to the breaking down of the gearbox? If not causing the breakdown of the gearbox I would probably go back to that shorter braking distance.

By "braking distance" do you mean the actual braking (back stick braking) or do you mean forwards deceleration? And minimum forward acceleration?
You can set these to whatever you prefer. I like back stick braking to be rapid. And when I release the joystick to the centre position, for it to roll smoothly.
Remember these are from my 6mph chair. So it will require slightly different settings on your 8mph one. Esp on the turn speed. In fact it will mostly make it turn faster, and accelerate faster. (forward acceleration, and turn acceleration) So you could reduce these slightly.

I see what you are saying. When I release the joystick I like it to stop as soon as possible, because my hands can go into spasm and I need to take my hand off the steering and the wheelchair stop as soon as possible. And I will take note of the rest and change accordingly.

I think you should think about motorrising the foot rest. You can bring the foot rest right back so the wheels cannot turn on the caster, and caster wheel becomes impeded, but it does give you a next inch or 2 when you are manoeuvring in tight spaces. Helps me greatly with my bladder.

That makes no sense. How can you manoever if the casters hit your feet?

sometimes when you're going in a restaurant and you need to do a left or right turn in a tight space, your casters ain't going to do a full rotation and you can pull your feet in to miss the door frame et cetera, and get round the corner when you are able to pull your feet so far back. I find it handy.

No this has odyssey batteries on, not lithium, so I won't be able to exploit that extra voltage. And on that topic, I believe I read somewhere you can use the PL 8 to charge the wheel chair through the XLR? Could you give me the preset for odyssey batteries charging through the XLR, and the preset for charging them individually straight to the terminals, and the 2 of them straight to the terminals please?

[Burgerman]

In a bit!
The anderson, is the same as straight to the terminals. They are all the same actually other than the charge current..With andersons/terminals you charge at 20 to 40A. You can set that to wherever you want.

With the profile for XLR I set it to 12A. And set a hidden parameter that will never allow you to set higher than this. So you cant damage anything...

Later.

[wheelchairer]

This isn't a charge point is it, it is just for isolating the batteries?

[Burgerman]

I didnt build it so cant be sure.
What I did do was install a split system on most of my chairs.
So that wire you see was the link wire that joins the two batteries.
That allows you to connect to either battery individually, one battery at a time, or when linked both batteries in series.

That means I can charge both batteries in parallel as I drive in my van. In parallel at 12V, or both batteries in series as per usual at 24V, and or/ one V battery at a time.

It allows you to test a battery, individually, and also to run drills, inverters etc at 12 or 24V from the chair.
It also allows you to pull out the plugs and disconnect the battery from the control system when stored so that the battery only needs charging every 2 months. No standby drain current.

You can also use your chair to start a car. Or the opposite way around, and allow a runni g car to charge your chair fast.

Read...
OLD...
https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/charge ... om-car.htm
NEW
https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/faster ... arging.htm

And www.wheelchairdriver.com/gopro/starter.mp4

[Burgerman]

I have not forgotten, just no time yet to do odyssey profiles.

[wheelchairer]

I have not forgotten, just no time yet to do odyssey profiles.

No problems Dude you always respond above and beyond the call of duty.

[wheelchairer]

Can you also tell me which model of odyssey batteries I need to order for this machine? Bought this wheelchair second-hand so maybe something as gone on, but I cannot live with 4.4 miles off a full charge.

[Burgerman]

Model of battery? I have no idea as I had nothing to do with it, o its build. Its a loose copy built by tom by the look of it.

Mine use PC1500 M or any of the other variats of PC1500.DT, M, etc. ones. Or it did.

Heres are some profiles that I used on both the cheap nasty leoch batteries and the Odyssey PC1500.

This one is for charging any chair with AGM battery, at 12A via the XLR connector. Thats perfectly safe. Also you cannot inadvertently charge any higher than 13A with this profile as I set that as an absolute wall. I actually use this set to 13A however. You probably shouldnt! You can also set it to less, but thats inadvisable with decent AGM's.

It will charge at the correct voltage even for summer use on AGM up to around 30C. And will hold that voltage for up to 8 hours, with 2 hour low rate fixed 100mA trickle charge at the end. So around a 10 hour charge or so. This is for cyclic use. Set the CV time limit to 4 hours if only doing a weekly top up o an unused chair. That will take around 6 hours total.