The New Fusion Pride

[Alice]

Hi all
Can anyone give feedback on this? Will be first powerchair and would like some feedback from those who actually use and not manufactureres.

Will need for mild outdoor use as in forrest walks, if i am not on right lines i would like to know.
Alice

[Burgerman]

Well you are sort of getting what you pay for. It is only 4mph. So low geared. This means they can get away with smaller batteries, smaller control system, and smaller motors than more expensive faster chairs. 6mph feels pretty slow though, so if 4 is enough, then its "ok"...

But Pride have issues with programming too, as in they dont usually let you get access to the "good" programmers needed to make their chairs steer properly.

And outdoors is bumpy! So 10 inch casters, and suspension or fat tyres are a very good idea too!

All of this costs though.

[Anderida]

The user guide for this chair says: "Your power chair, like most electrical equipment, is susceptible to damage from the elements. Avoid damp areas of any kind." Do the manufacturers know this is sold in the UK?

It also says: "Should your power chair come in contact with water:
1. Dry your power chair as thoroughly as possible with a towel.
2. Allow your power chair to sit in a warm, dry place for 12 hours to allow unseen water to evaporate."

Do they appreciate that a person with a disability (presumably their target market) is unlikely to be able to towel dry their chair every time it rains? If I could do that I'd buy a horse! A horse is more capable outdoors and doesn't pretend to be a good indoor mobility aid. Oh, and a horse knows its way back from the pub!

[ex-Gooserider]

Chair makers don't live in the real world - or at least their lawyers don't use their chairs in it.... By saying the keep it dry routine, they have an out if water does get into the electrics and cause a problem... It also lets them get away with using cheaper finishes and rust prone hardware if they don't have to plan on you getting it wet....

In practice, your chair "shouldn't" give you any problems if you get caught in the occasional rain shower, but it's best to avoid it if possible, and if not "condomise" the joystick with a plastic bag or other cover. Definitely stay out of deep puddles, swimming pools (ask me how I know ) and other water more than an inch or two deep...

ex-Gooserider

[Burgerman]

To be fair I use a pressure washer, if muddy or covered in salt/crud, along with a sponge and car wash and wax. I also use the shower in my wet room...

And I have a very old abused BM1 chair from '98 that I leave outside all year long, covered in snow, ice, and serious downpours complete with extremely split rubber gaiter in the joystick, that lets you see inside. Never had a problem with water once. So I wouldnt let rain worry you too much!

http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/powerchair-rain.htm

[Alice]

I am so confused i really dont know what chair i want, budget is main problem, i have about 2500.00 limit. Looked at many second hand and several new....i quite like the idea of a horse, hips still wondering how or indeed if but the idea was good. I do know i want to 'walk' outdoors as best as possible.
Alice
x

[Step]

I would try to go for a faster & more powerful chair.

Faster because 4mph won't even let you catch up with people walking if you stay behind for some reason. Or cross a street or go somewhere by yourself without driving you insane.
I 'walk' home from work (3 miles) when the weather allows and the long stretch along the railroad, flat, straight line, feels slow at 6.5mph.

More powerful (120amp R-net) if you want to be able to control your chair on your forest walks which I imagine will use sloping paths which aren't always paved, right?

Programming is an issue with most chairs as BM said above but that can (partially) be fixed by insisting your provider or maintenance company program the chair to your liking.
Many , if not most people don't know this can be done though and still use their chairs in the situations you're aiming at.
So it will be possible, even if it could be made even better by reprogramming the chair.

Outdoor/indoor capable rear wheel drive chairs with 4-pole, 6mph motors do appear on 2nd hand sites every now and then but you might have to be a bit patient and picky.
II also notice a lot of them are priced at say half the price of a new chair which is still outrageous if you know that most people got them for free and are selling them because social services are paying for a new one.
I usually use that argument when I call for information and it makes the price drop spectacularly.

Good luck!

[ex-Gooserider]

Actually most people only walk at around 3-4mph - usual estimates for walking time figure 20 minutes / mile... I know that if I'm in a crowd that forces me to roll at the average walking pace, or rolling along with healthy walking TAB friends, I need to slow it down a bit... At my chair's full 4mph speed, I am passing most people that are walking, and keeping up with the fastest walkers... The folks that are actually running do go faster than I can..

4mph is still overly slow in a lot of places where I'm not dealing w/ pedestrians though. I agree that 6+ mph would be a lot nicer...

ex-Gooserider

[Burgerman]

As Ex Gooserider says, compared to say a manual chair or people 4mph is fast. Because its sustained. Your hands dont get covered in crap and your arms and shoulders dont rapidly tire out. And its still 4mph even uphill...

Where 6 becomes important. Or better still 8 or more. Is safety, and cold. I cant count the number of times I have had to escape from a reversing truck that hasnt seen me. Or had to shoot along the edge of a busy road in traffic to avoid people that park on the footpath, roadworks, no curb cuts, no footpath, bins etc etc. Every day. 4mph here is plainly VERY unsafe.

And outside my house as an example is a very busy 4 lane junction on a road where 40 or 50 mph seems the norm. Crossing this is dangerous at 6 mph, you feel its taking forever as you see traffic heading for you in 4 different directions all swapping lanes! And there are no curb cuts in the right places. And the lights dont allow for pedestrians... This is typical.

And coming back from the pub, shopping in winter, 6mph feels like 1mph as you are literally freezing and cant feel your fingers. That 2 miles home just takes f o r e v e r ... 15mph would be better still hence my newest chair.

And of course lights of some kind are essential for safety. Car drivers dont see you. Especially reversing in car parks...

[Sully]

Everything you say is very much the same here in the States. I have a little Ranger 2 to use in the house and an old Pride 1170 HD for out of doors, it does move right along out there. But no where near 8 Mph. I have no foot path along side the road, and there is absolutely no chance there ever will be, at least in my lifetime.

There is very little chance that the mobility business will change to make things better for us. You asked me if I only wanted a woods chair and I did answer yes. Let me qualify that, if I had a chair like yours it would never see the woods, or the beach. It is simply too pretty for me to use it 4 wheeling. I just want something to use as a kick around, get it muddy, or wet (a bit) disguise it with camoflage to make me less visible to critters. At 72+ I have little desire to go to the bars any longer. But I do value touring the neighborhood, seeing and talking with people. Unfortunately I am not much of a church type person, a good place to visit with people, being just a bit opinionated, I think there are just too many hypocrites there, for me. I would likely be excommunicated in a couple of short weeks.

We simply don't requre chairs to go faster about 95% of the time. But that 5% that is very different, AB folks can simply run at the very least, we're screwed!!! I am afraid when the mobility folks do get around to using LiFePO batteries they will set them up so there is little or no net gain, from using this new technology. It might be wise to be ahead of the curve to start planning a user campaign on both sides of the pond, to defeat that thinking. What do all you folks think?

[Burgerman]

if I had a chair like yours it would never see the woods, or the beach. It is simply too pretty for me to use it 4 wheeling. I just want something to use as a kick around, get it muddy, or wet (a bit) disguise it with camoflage to make me less visible to critters. At 72+ I have little desire to go to the bars any longer.

Trust me they start off pretty but I use and trash them. Because I build a fresh one every year! I have just started using another new (rebuilt as better than new) chair a couple oif days ago. And still have another fresh one as a backup/replacement. If you start building your own in pairs yearly as I do then you wont worry!

[Burgerman]

I am afraid when the mobility folks do get around to using LiFePO batteries they will set them up so there is little or no net gain, from using this new technology.

Thats EXACTLY what will happen.

A pair of group 24 batteries will give around 1000watt hours of usable stored energy the way powerchairs use them. Or a little less.

My lithium powerchair has 3x this, at 3000+ watt hours of stored power. At ANY rate, fast or slow. Why? Because it will fit into the space I have between the fat tyres, and it doesent limit range which should exceed a real world 45 miles, allows sustained 15mph because of the lower resistance/increased capacity and voltage, good for beaches, hills, charge every 3 or 5 days or so in winter, etc. And this of course limits the number of recharge cycles.

This is 2000 80% DoD cycles approx ten or fifteen year battery service life is therefore expected. And no problem if you forget to charge or need to go a long way unexpectedly. And yet this one off battery weighs 50lb LESS than the lead bricks in a stock powerchair. And charges massively faster... It cost 3x the price of good lead batteries. But has 3x the capacity too, 3 to 5 times the service life! So its cheaper long term already by miles too.

The manufacturers will not do this. They will fit the same (or less since its going to be lighter too) 1000 watt hours eq to 2x lead bricks. Cutting range, and cost, and increasing discharge load per Ah by 3 times! There will still be a gain in battery service life but not by very much since you will now need to charge daily and effective C rate of discharge will be increased by 3x... Range may increase a little due to weight only. Cost will be much the same as lead. Much of the huge range, potential speed, battery longevity benefits will be lost, but it will be great for marketing. So expect this diluted aproach anytime soon from the marketing leaders like pride!

[Fulliautomatix]

It cost 3x the price of good lead batteries. But has 3x the capacity too, 3 to 5 times the service life! So its cheaper long term already by miles too.

It may cost 3x in UK but here it is 30% more...here 1 PC1500 is $450 and the lithium is $1300
Makes even more sense!

[Sully]

Trust me they start off pretty but I use and trash them. Because I build a fresh one every year! I have just started using another new (rebuilt as better than new) chair a couple oif days ago. And still have another fresh one as a backup/replacement. If you start building your own in pairs yearly as I do then you wont worry!

Again at 72, one good chair will very likely last me the rest of my life. Your chairs are just too pretty to go mudding or cammoflaging for hunting purposes. There is no way I will build a new chair year after year.

Like the cat with 9 lives I have used up multiple lives already. When I am ready to depart, there will be very few spare parts to use again!!! The same will likely apply concerning any chair I have at that time.

[Burgerman]

Just do 2. One a rat chair, one for best!

[Sully]

Sounds like a plan.

[ashhubber]

I love how much you guys have to say but havent actualy used one HA. Im a 23 yr old male and i own a pride fusion, it does 10km/h or 6.5 miles n hour and has a range of 28 km or 17miles. Ive had it on the beach several times, i drive it off road everyday, ive had in in mud 8 inches thick with blokes pushing me, ive evan had it upside down.....twice. Several bolts have snapped because they were made from cheap steal and its starting to rust(from the beach). The fusion is uncomfortable but outperforms about 25 other chairs i have tried.

[Burgerman]

I love how much you guys have to say but havent actualy used one HA.

When you understand physics, electronics, and can see the chair, read it specs (batt capacity, spered, controller amp output, etc) you can easily tell approximately how it will perform. Without sitting in it. Of course once the above has been considered you have an idea of range, performance, and once you see the layout and caster/wheel positions and size you have an idea how it will perform outdoors.

So its very possible to have a really good idea about it just from a brochure.

[ashhubber]

Well some of your information is wrong and your not the only one who understands electronics and mechanics. You dont go into a dealership and ask 'how does it go' and the person goes 'well ive looked at the specs'. Half the things youve said about this chair are completley wrong.

[Burgerman]

I am quite happy to be enlightened. I have never even sat in one.

What is wrong?

[ashhubber]

Well i feel a little stupid, ive just realised who you are. You obviously know alot about chairs, youve done some cool stuff and your website is amazing. Im still going to stick by what i said though the pride fusion performs really good. Ive taken it where chairs shouldnt go and trialed every rear wheel drive and 4 wheel drive available in australia.