Quickie S636

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Quickie S636

Postby JoeC » 26 Aug 2010, 02:51

For my background for writing this review, see this thread on the Permobil C350- viewtopic.php?f=6&t=306

I have seen the Quickie S626 and S646SE, both chairs leading to the new incarnation, the S636. In many ways they are very similar. The frame, battery tray, battery door, shocks, tilt system, and anti-tips all seem nearly identical.

The S626 was a rough draft, and had severe problems with the connection between the drive wheels and the motors. They were secured with a key on the shaft, and the key fit into soft alloy wheels. In time this key would work free, the wheel would rotate on the shaft, and eventually- so I saw, the drive wheel could fall off. I actually saw a wheel fall off as somebody was driving one of these chairs.

The S646 and then S646SE were followups to the original design, and fixed many of the problems with reliability. The shafts were made thicker and tapered, and the wheels were changed to bolt onto hubs, allowing stronger materials to be used in more mechanically sound ways. The new motors also tended to be a little stronger, if not more efficient. The S646SE is not a chair that I've heard described as a battery miser, but it does have a reputation for dependability and ease of driving.

The S636 that my wife is demoing is approximately 38 inches from front caster to rear caster tip, with both casters turned to make the chair its longest. The S646SE was the same. The rear casters of the S636 are spaced just a bit over 15 inches wide, and the S646SE's rear casters are spaced just over 15.5 inches wide. The drive wheels and front casters are the same.

The motivation for the S636 redesign seems to be purely for business reasons. It only goes 6.5 mph instead of 7.0 mph, because that is the difference between what the US Medicare guideline will pay for. The S636 now uses Rnet electronics, and the model we have received has a joystick with a single drive program, buttons to raise and lower the speed, and a button to change the joystick into a seat actuator. The motors are also new, and I have not been able to see who manufactured them.

After driving a mile to the train station, sitting on the air conditioned train for half an hour, and then driving a mile home over flat ground, the motors were about 140 F, quite hot to the touch. The 90 amp R-net motor controller, on the other hand, was only 92F, hardly above ambient temperature. I think that this is a good demonstration that even if the new motors aren't anything special, the new R-net controller is more efficient than the Pilot+. By the time I got home the batteries were discharged to 24.1 volts, and the battery gauge was very confused. I couldn't make sense of it, it was going from three lights gone to six lights gone, and back up- for no reason I could think of.

The default programming of this particular chair was significantly better than the Permobil C350. More significantly, I found that the center of gravity was in a better place, and I had better traction while stopping on curb cuts at traffic lights. It was when I would stop then turn the chair around to reach the crosswalk button that I noticed a distinct lack of power in comparison to the P200 soccer chair (with a Dynamic DX controller). It might have been the deeply discharged gel batteries, or it might have been the controller, or the motors, but the chair was just very hesitant to back up and turn on a curb cut slope (but still a lot better than that Permobil!)

The swing-away armrest is sturdy, it swings away easily, and it seems to stay in place if you have good control of your arm and posture.

I drove the chair as I always do, as fast as it goes and with little consideration for my own comfort (I'm able bodied after all), only avoiding bumps and slowing when I think they might be bad for the chair, or look really bad. The shocks were somewhat effective, though nowhere near as soft as the Permobil's. On a scale of 1-10 where 10 means "You always feel like you're floating on a cloud", I would rate the Permobil around 7 or 8, and the Quickie around 4 or 5. They're a lot better than nothing (the P200 is a serious bone shaker), but they're probably a lot worse than Burgerman's giant balloon tires.

More to come, if I find anything interesting.
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Re: Quickie S636

Postby Lord Chatterley » 26 Aug 2010, 17:23

Is this the R-net system that claims 2 x 120 amps?
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Re: Quickie S636

Postby JoeC » 26 Aug 2010, 17:35

No, it was this module: http://www.pgdt.com/products/r-net/rnet-power-el.html

They claim 90 amps. The chair is geared for 6.5 mph, and it feels substantially less powerful than the 7.5 mph chair used for soccer. I haven't had any access to the programming and it was using MK gel batteries, so that COULD explain why it didn't feel stronger...
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Re: Quickie S636

Postby johntom » 18 Feb 2011, 01:31

I have a new Quickie S-636 funded by Medicare/Medi-cal, (USA California Medicaid). I have owned it for one month. It came with 6.5 mph 4 pole motors, Group 24 MK batteries, tilt, swing away joystick, and standard rear suspension out of the factory. I paid an extra $85.00 for 9" front casters when it was ordered.

I have owned both a Quickie S-646 and a S-646SE in the past. Unlike the older models, the ANTI-TIPPERS COME RAISED 1" right out of the factory. They are not in constant contact with the ground. The speed and torque are more than adequate for my needs. If I am on #5 speed setting, it will Whip from side to side like a soccer chair if I desire.

With the 9" casters the ride is smoother than my Invacare 3G Arrow with it's 8" suspension forks and almost as fast. This is a great outdoor chair that qualifies as an indoor type for insurance purposes. This is a very good choice if you want both indoor and outdoor performance. I am a demanding user, and drive it hard every day. I am very pleased with this chair.
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Re: Quickie S636

Postby Martin O Refurbisher » 18 Feb 2011, 05:16

I have never seen an S636 offered for sale in UK, and Sunparts don't list the spares as available in UK.

I find it supprising that a multi-national such as Sunrise offers different models in different markets. I know regs vary, but surely the user requirements are the same.

This means that whilst we in UK don't have the S636 or variants, the US market does not have the F55.

In my view it would be helpful to have all chairs available in all markets if possible.

Meanwhile, the F55 remains the preferred base model for any of us to rebuild from. I'll always buy in any old ones I can get at the right price, both to refurbish, and to make good used spares available at reasonable prices.
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Re: Quickie S636

Postby johntom » 18 Feb 2011, 15:13

Here are the new motors. One vendor says they are LINIX, (best of Chinese mfr.)

Image
This is all I could get of a label. RPM apear to be 549 on other side.

Image
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Re: Quickie S636

Postby woodygb » 19 Mar 2011, 12:10

A bit of web browsing gives the following info.

Make/supplier appears to be Linix.
90ZY24-450D/89JC26G2554-02. RPM 163
26-1 gear ratio
Making the motor rpm around 4,238
The 450 denotes 450 watts
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Re: Quickie S636

Postby Burgerman » 19 Mar 2011, 15:06

Watts in this case (on a motor) doesent determine its strength or power capability. Only its ability to loose heat and so efficiency or surface area... Means very little. Any heafty 450 watt motor will take 10 times that for shorter durations, and possibly double its rated continually if its in a cool climate, or you dont care about them getting hotter than normal...

I am going to use up to 14,000 watts on my 8.5mph groove motors! I dont expect problems.
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Re: Quickie S636

Postby woodygb » 19 Mar 2011, 16:42

Specs 42 - 47 volts 15.2 mph and a 2 motor/wheel drive.
Amps per motor for wheel spin occurs @ 0.8 * mass in kg's...Assuming a very grippy friction coefficient for the tyre.
Working your 14,000 watts backwards = 168 Amps ish and 210kg's total mass for chair and occupant?
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Re: Quickie S636

Postby Burgerman » 19 Mar 2011, 16:52

Dont know what you are working out. But the total amps per motor are 150 (250 peak) so say 300. x volts = watts. So 300 x 47 = 14,100 watts. Or 18hp... Or more since peak is 500 amps...

What are you getting at? You cannot determine wheelspin from any formula. Since loading is dynamic. And depends on weight transfer, traction, tyre cleanliness and temperature as well as formula.

In a wheelchair I would be just spat out of the back! As I would on a bike if all that power was used off the line.

As an ex drag racer I tried all the calculations in the world. Means nothing. I canm wheelspin a 50cc bike. Or run a 300 bhp bike from 0 to 170 in 8 seconds with no wheelspin and a bit of stretched arms and some tunnel vision! Depends more on how you hold your mouth than maths...
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Re: Quickie S636

Postby woodygb » 19 Mar 2011, 18:20

Burgerman wrote:What are you getting at? ...

It's a formula I have used in the past to estimate the Amps required to attain wheelspin for a given mass on a tyre assuming max traction... pushing against a wall.

Max amps pull depends of course on the motor and wiring resistance.

Burgerman wrote:You cannot determine wheelspin from any formula....



Feel free to ignore it as meaningless.

Regards Woody
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Re: Quickie S636

Postby Burgerman » 19 Mar 2011, 18:41

No - was just interested. I used to design and build rolling roads for bikes. Tested everthing from small commuters, (250 / 400cc crappy tyres, etc with about 40hp) to 450 bhp plus serious turbo/nitrous drag bikes. The ones that slip, wheelspin, were always the little commuter bikes. The serious horsepower bikes just dig in and grip. They have 10x the power. But equally they have better geometry, better rubber, and tyre grip isnt simple.

But watts (HP) tells you nothing anyway unless you know the torque at the wheel. Because it doesent tell you the gear ratio.

Plus any controller used will NOT feed 47v to the motor under stalled condition. If it did it would exeed its 150 amp rating.

It will be more like 3 to 7 volts at stall speeds. Because any higher would mean more amps than the controller can do...
So if your motor takes 150 Amps stalled at say 4 or 6 volts then thats it! So that means max watts of 150 x 4 (or 6) watts... x2. The advantage of more volts is that max Amps can be maintained as speed increases. Its here that the full 14000 watts counts. Acceleration will be much improved as speeds increase. And terminal speed will be about double the usual 24v speed.

So it will be safe. And a little wilder than a stock chair! More importantly it will keep goor speed up hills, ramps, on sand etc. At the expence of more battery power. But it has that too. 3000+ Watt Hours of it!
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Re: Quickie S636

Postby Burgerman » 19 Mar 2011, 18:56

Max amps pull depends of course on the motor and wiring resistance.



Quite. And voltage! Doubling the volts means that it will (can) pull double the amps or power at any given speed.

Plus those groove motors were the most powerful I could find by seat of pants testing for 8.5 mph motors. So must be quite low impedance. And the wiring is all doubled up heavy 8 Gauge (actually 10 Sq mm) and as short as possible. The battery loom will be 12 inches and doubled up. The roboteq cables will be shortened to about 4 inches. The motor cables will be stock sized but shortened to about 8 inches long.

Battery resistance and voltage drop is also tiny compared to lead, even odyssey. Its "solid" with almost no sag compared to the Odyssey batteries. And at double the voltage (almost) the amps are reduced to half. 100 at each of the motors in stalled condition, will mean about 70 max at the battery cable. I know that seems odd but its true! Full battery, 47v 13 cell resistance including cables, is just 6mOhms!!! And just 3 mOhm per motor/side from the controller which at nearly 50 volts is negligable. Which is why it can do 14000 watts for 60 secs at a time. It uses 32 Mosfets rather than 8 or 16. http://www.roboteq.com/brushed-dc-motor ... controller
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Re: Quickie S636

Postby woodygb » 19 Mar 2011, 20:28

I've used in my Robot Wars related hobby the RoboteQ , Dogz Bollox, Curtis 1225 and Robot Power Sidewinder controllers.

The RoboteQ died under ...ummm.. adverse conditions.
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Re: Quickie S636

Postby Burgerman » 19 Mar 2011, 20:49

Well we will see! Which roboteq? The earlier ones had half the output devices, so could be made to suffer more easily. Of course Robot wars people can kill any controller in stalled state if not configured correctly. But mobility controllers also die in these kinds of conditions.

Either way its going to be very thoroughly tested...
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Re: Quickie S636

Postby woodygb » 19 Mar 2011, 20:57

The AX2550 ... NOT the RoboteQ's fault...adverse conditions equals full tilt into arena side ( steel rails ) closely followed by 2 100kg's bots.
Something inside was I suspect physically broken by the G forces ( I couldn't see it ) ...It was never repaired due to the cost / aggrevation of returning it to the States for repair ( the UK repairer at that time had backed out ).
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Re: Quickie S636

Postby Burgerman » 19 Mar 2011, 21:01

Do you still have it? Might be interesting to look inside and compare. Or fix...
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Re: Quickie S636

Postby johntom » 29 Nov 2012, 19:55

johntom wrote:I have a new Quickie S-636 funded by Medicare/Medi-cal, (USA California Medicaid). I have owned it for one month. It came with 6.5 mph 4 pole motors, Group 24 MK batteries, tilt, swing away joystick, and standard rear suspension out of the factory. I paid an extra $85.00 for 9" front casters when it was ordered.

I have owned both a Quickie S-646 and a S-646SE in the past. Unlike the older models, the ANTI-TIPPERS COME RAISED 1" right out of the factory. They are not in constant contact with the ground. The speed and torque are more than adequate for my needs. If I am on #5 speed setting, it will Whip from side to side like a soccer chair if I desire.

With the 9" casters the ride is smoother than my Invacare 3G Arrow with it's 8" suspension forks and almost as fast. This is a great outdoor chair that qualifies as an indoor type for insurance purposes. This is a very good choice if you want both indoor and outdoor performance. I am a demanding user, and drive it hard every day. I am very pleased with this chair.

UPDATE:
It has been a year and 10 months prox and my S-636 is problem free. Just had to tighten a few bolts in my leg hangers and armrest.

The motors and gearboxes are still very quiet after daily hard use. I can barely hear them. They just purr along at full speed. Great quality gearboxes. My old Pride chairs would be grinding by now.

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Re: Quickie S636

Postby hobie1dog » 22 Dec 2016, 00:10

I got fitted for a new power chair today. I went in and was asked if I knew what I wanted, and I pointed to the 636 the rep was already sitting in. It's as close to a BM as I'll ever get. They let me dive it outside and on a grassy but modest hill, then switch it up to the full 6.5 mph, which seemed plenty fast compared to my Invacare 4.5mph model. So now the phase 2 paperwork starts. It took a month just to get the seating appointment.
Earth: The Insane Asylum of the Universe-nowhere else could things be more screwed up.

Invacare Pronto m61 $250.00 in it
Quickie S636- BM wannabe
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Re: Quickie S636

Postby Dblshotz » 09 Jan 2017, 03:39

hobie1dog wrote:I got fitted for a new power chair today. I went in and was asked if I knew what I wanted, and I pointed to the 636 the rep was already sitting in. It's as close to a BM as I'll ever get. They let me dive it outside and on a grassy but modest hill, then switch it up to the full 6.5 mph, which seemed plenty fast compared to my Invacare 4.5mph model. So now the phase 2 paperwork starts. It took a month just to get the seating appointment.


Youre going ot love it. Ive had mine for going on 3 years and have had ZERO issues with it other than the usual wear and tear.
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