Wheelchair on tracks

[Vitolds]

If you want to work - buy a truck
if you want to drive fast - buy Ferrari
you understand the meaning?
Austrian chair is not suitable for driving in summer - spring - autumn. Only when there is winter and snow!
I do not know how to translate "slide-ways", they are not suitable for driving outside the snow.

[Burgerman]

>>>I gave you a photo Roboteq 2360.

>Max Amps per Channel 60
Needs 3x more...

>Continuous Amps per Channel 40
Seriously? That wont fly my model planes.

>ON Resistance (mOhm) 2.5
Again, hot!!!

Brushless have issues.

And Roboteq is hopeless without the script... And current sensors. And low gearing and many more volts...

[Vitolds]

oh ....
no problem!
peak (2360) only 35 amps!

[Vitolds]

I have motors 550 - 3000 rpm
I have 2 stars
I chain
I have a major star (on tracks) 300 mm
I'm tired of you!

[Burgerman]

>oh ....
>no problem!
>peak (2360) only 35 amps!

Because you are measuring BATTERY amps...
Measure Motor Amps. Just for me... You will then figure out WHY it wont turn like you want it to do. And why it stalls when you climb.

They (Motor Amps, Battery Amps) are totally and completely different. (The controller will show 100 Motor Amps if you measure it, and just 30 Battery Amps). You simply do not understand the physics.

I can SEE the thing slowing and struggling even with your lightweight spouse in it, every single time she turns. And she always turns while moving forwards unless in slippery mud or slippery snow. Or I see it struggle as in your vid trying to climb a slope with you in it (video then jumps). And in this last video. And on all of your other videos.

You do not understand what is happening.

>I have motors 550 - 3000 rpm
>I have 2 stars
>I chain
>I have a major star (on tracks) 300 mm

NONE of that makes any difference.
Its all just "gearing".

Only:
-Motor impedance
-Motor efficiency
-TOTAL gearing (final speed) matters. (All the up/down previous ratio etc is completely unimportant).
-MOTOR amps at full stall load AFTER throttling by the controller. (and there isnt anything like enough!)

THIS only determines how much torque you have.

[Vitolds]

you a ram.
you see in the front seat footrest?
footrest stumble upon pit
you see a caterpillar that off the ground?
footrest plowing the ground!
I know very well physics, mathematics.
I now understand why do you have a problem with of Europeans head.

[Vitolds]

Look at the size of the pit
on a chair so you can do?
my wife is not a stuntman! was terrible to!
Turn on your brain and stop your life measure amperes!

[Burgerman]

I give up.

[Vitolds]

race mode

[CPguy]

@ Vitolds: I do not understand the puctures (what are you trying to show?) but I understand this: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A2-14 . The T-14 tank is sexy!

[Vitolds]

Армата beautiful!
my photos, it's the start wheelchair
drag racing wheelchair on tracks
10 kW - 100 kg = monster

[Burgerman]

But what is 10kW?

[Vitolds]

controller
Of course engines

[Burgerman]

Do you mean that its MOTORS are 10 kW?

Is that 10kW maximum power?
Or
Is that 10kW continuous without overheat? The difference can be 25x ...

And even if a motor is 25kW continuous, then depending on its IMPEDANCE you may only get 100 watts of energy from it at 12V. Or 24V.
It may take for e.g. 2000 Volts to get its 25kW. So supplying it with 24V means it may not have the power to pull the skin off a rice pudding...

To have ANY idea how much power a motor can make we need to know a few specifications.
Free running RPM and AMPS.
Stalled AMPS.
The voltage these test were conducted at. (24V ?)
Motor IMPEDANCE and Peak efficiency.

At the very least. So saying X watts is completely meaningless. That is simply a measure of how many INPUT watts, it can sustain continually without damage.

Adding a cooling fan to a motor can increase its Watts rating by 2 to 3 times. But it doesent make more power.

And...
The motor with LOW impedance, may pull say 500A from a battery stalled.
And the same motor connected to your 60A controller will pull only 60A -- limited by software in the controller, current limiting, maximum when stalled. Meaning you motor cannot make more torque than the 60A limit allows.

[Vitolds]

burger, Get off me with your amperes!
study the mechanics!

[Burgerman]

I am sorry but it is DIRECTLY relevant. And it MATTERS! Even if you don't understand it.
I already understand the mechanical part perfectly. It is very simple.

YOU may not understand that "Amps" stuff, but this is your problem. You need to learn, because otherwise you are ignorant and do not understand anything useful about motors or control systems.

Because saying "10kW DC motors" alone, tells us absolutely nothing at all about how powerful they are. Really, nothing, zero, nada, zilch.

[Ih8urface]

do you have any info/ experience on the current tankchair? is this chair under powered? speed stats? battery power? website says lithium battery. any help would be appreciated, thanks

[Burgerman]

Yes.
It uses 4x relatively cheap lead batteries. Not great and weigh a ton.
Or a lithium option that's no bigger in capacity, but lighter. That will perform slightly better as long as they give no problems - which they likely will due to how they are implemented.

And its biggest issue by far: It uses a far too feeble 100A + 20A boost (for 10 secs), power wheelchair controller. The R-net by PG drives. With inadequate power.

Tankchair even now has a special web page and videos showing how you can make it turn, by keeping moving forwards, and to not try and turn on the spot... And what to do when its feeble controller overheats. Because they have so many people complaining obviously...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjyRBFUWNes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pddGuKGeaPI

What's happening here in the videos is not that its "broke" or has some "fault". But that its controller itself doesent have the power to turn left/right while at a standstill and trying to do do has overheated while he was turning left/right and has "rolled back" the power level to almost zero to save itself from being damaged through heat. It an in built protection system common to all wheelchair controllers. Rinse and repeat. The more you try, the more it rolls back. So the more it "wont turn" or locks up as the guy in the vid says.

Turning on the spot takes a lot of power. Many Amps. More than the controller can provide so sometimes it wont turn. Rolling back and forth, or turning while moving forwards or backwards takes far, far, less.
The controller is not adequate for the job that it has to do. They are barely adequate in a wheelchair that they are intended for.

The "fault" they talk of, is that a wheelchair controller is not capable of giving enough Amps for more than a few seconds/min at best, if you try to turn on the spot. Or climb something steep. Esp if there's any real grip on the ground or dry grass etc. Also realise that the talk of "bigger motors" by the manufacturer will not fix the problem. The CONTROLLER is the problem. It cannot supply enough power (Amps) without overheating and all but shutting down. A bigger motor may even make it worse. It has no fault as such, other than by design. And there isnt a better mobility controller available.

They do have a basic lithium battery, that is too small capacity and using a BMS which means potential problems, but that doesn't fix the problem either. Because that isnt the issue.

So they made several videos...
So as to stop you as a user trying to turn. Or to expect to stop and give it a rest while it cools down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cafRUg9WPr0 how to get it to turn without adequate power...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNlW2VeDp-8 overheating...

So avoid unless you accept its a bit limited...

[Vitolds]

Burger Stop lying.
I do not use controllers from wheelchairs.
I showed you that these controllers can be used.
I am doing
48B
2 Motor 1000x1000 or 2000h2000 watts
If you need a big run, this gasoline engine power 15-25

[Vitolds]

Now I finish fabrication minitrak suspension
more power, more speed - need suspension, wings.
The petrol version is managed as well a single joystick.

[Burgerman]

Burger Stop lying.
I do not use controllers from wheelchairs.

I never said you did. We are talking about Brads Tankchair.

I showed you that these controllers can be used.

No you never showed that they would zero turn reliably on a dry grass field, or a grippy clean surface. Despite countless requests. Evertything but that. Every time I asked that you ignored me. And showed everything else. Including getting stuck and "jumping" the video to avoid it beeing seen.

And you showed very clearly that you dont understand the physics, or how motors or controllers work.

I am doing
48B
2 Motor 1000x1000 or 2000h2000 watts
If you need a big run, this gasoline engine power 15-25

No clue what that means. Or why or how its relevant.

[Burgerman]

Now I finish fabrication minitrak suspension
more power, more speed - need suspension, wings.
The petrol version is managed as well a single joystick.

New chair with better power that works?

Lets see it!

[Vitolds]

electricity
48 volts
engine option
motors 1000 watt + 1000 watt
motors 2000 watts +2000 watts
is it clear?
to make powerful or use a other batteries, it makes no sense.
better use of the petrol engine

[Burgerman]

electricity
48 volts
engine option
motors 1000 watt + 1000 watt
motors 2000 watts +2000 watts

No because as I have tried endlessly to explain, telling me motor watts DOES NOT TELL ME ANYTHING USEFUL. IT DOESENT SAY HOW POWERFUL THEY ARE!!!

THIS http://www.castlecreations.com/products ... m1500.html
35MM X 50MM. Same size as an egg. 1000 WATTS CONT. 4000 WATTS PEAK. How does that help??

I gave up trying to discuss this with you several times because you do not understand anything about motors and how they work. And never answer my questions. So we get endless circles.

What batteries?
What configuration?
What motors, with full specs?
What controller? Amps?
What max speed? KPH

[Burgerman]

Can we see it?

it makes no sense.

What makes no sense?
I have always said petrol engines are far better outdoors.

[Vitolds]

engine power? - is sufficient
that's all you must know
Russian laws - 18 km / h need a motorcycle driver's license category
48 volts can not be used on a wheelchair
2000 watt motor - to register of vehicle, obtain license plate.

[Burgerman]

2000 watt motor - to register of vehicle, obtain license plate.

Do you realise that a 700 watt motor, can be turned into a 1000 watt motor as an example, simply by adding some cooling like a heat sink? Or a fan. With no other changes? It refers only to max CONTINUAL power allowed before heat damage. It does NOT say if its weak, or powerful. And in any case that is limited by the controller Amps (torque).

A stock powerchair, using a normal motor of say 400 watts, takes typically more than 100A when stalled at full throttle. Or accelerating hard. That's 24V X 100A = 2400 WATTS. Per motor. Or 4800 per powerchair. Why doesent that need to be registered?

So how are you determining motor watts???

I dont know why I am bothering because you will not answer me, and will change the subject and claim it "works"...

[Vitolds]

amp you man!
I do not use engines from wheelchairs.
I use brushless motors
Get off of me, amp man

[Burgerman]

So you didnt answer, changed the subject... As I said.

I wont bother in future. Last I heard you had a very low powered Roboteq controller. Theres no point trying to discuss this as you never reply to my questions. Its like trying to explain physics to my dog. Wouldnt matter how many times I try, he would not ever get it.

[Vitolds]

I am tired you to prove.
I showed you
You always cite a bad example of the Americans.
weight, size caterpillars compare!
material caterpillars!
gear!