Invacare TDX SP 2 NB (Narrow Base)

[Glitterfairy]

I have had my TDX SP 2 NB in Transparent Purple since Tuesday 19 July, and so far I really like it. It is the first centre wheel drive chair I have had and I really noticed the difference with the rear wheel drive (for me anyway) in terms of manoeuverability and turning radius . The centre mount footrest makes a huge difference to these factors too as it means the overall chair size is kept more compct than my old chair with its side mounted swing away footrests.

My chair has all the available electric options: tilt in space ( 30°) electric recline (30°) electric LNX elevating centre mount length compensating foot platform with split footplates and electric elevation ( 30 cm). The footplates can be manually folded up towards the seat frame. All the electrical functions are really making a welcome difference to my pain and comfort levels already

I chose the soft armrest pads , which are soft foam with a wipe clean cover. I am pleased with them and they at least have solved the problem of the pressure on my elbows that other armrest pads caused. The footplates are at least the right size for my feet which are small anyway at a UK size 5 (US 7). I will have to have them modified because my feet fall off the sides because of their posture. I cannot drive the chair by myself and until I get an alternative control we decided to buy the optional G90A control, which is so sensitive even on the lowest speed and has buttons in colours that are high contrast, and a small, but very bright, screen which shows functions like speed and which electrical function you are using. Luckily, the screen does not take up much area of the control and the G90A is a compact control. It has some jacks for switches and a horn that is actually decently loud that people can hear it (in stark contrast to others). In the near future, I hope to add an attendant control, lights and indicators as well as an alternative control which I can use a lot more independently than I can a joystick type control, and also gtrac to help me keep the chair on track on uneven or sloping terrain.

[Mechniki]

I was given an Invacare XTR SP2 Spectra initially from WS (wheelchair services) the appointment for assessment took nearly a year. My Invacare Mistral of 14 years was on it's last legs. so for a stop gap I hire purchased a ROMA P200 Marbella.
The WS brought out a Spectra SP2 even though I had asked for a Salsa or a Storm 3. So the Spectra had reclining seat etc with swing a way footrests. My first journey out, I broke the footplates on a dropped pavement. The second journey out I broke both gearboxes on the way home. Some plastic gear. Then a module failed, then a cable, then one of the motors.

So I was constantly having to rely on the Roma Marbella. Two weeks passed, AJM Healthcare had already taken the XTR SP2, they brought it back with a huge deep scratch in the frame. I wasn't happy. They came back, and sprayed touch up paint over the scratch. This made me even unhappier. I said you scratched it and you call that a repair. They took the chair away again. This time repairing it properly. New paint. Resprayed. Happy for a day. I went out, batteries went completly dead.. Turns out they had disconnected something in the power module. Again they came to repair it. A couple of days later both motors started making funny noises.

AJM came out again, and took the chair away. By then the Marbella was coming up for 11 months old, and it's batteries failed. Lloyds' Chemists, Betterlife, came the following day with New Batteries and fitted them, no quibble no hassle even though the wheelchair was an ex demonstration model. They didn't charge me.

Two days later WS was at my door, with a spanking new TDX SP2 - it is a complete POS - had tilt/recline modular seating. First day, broke the footplate, just the bracket, skimmed the top of a dropped pavement and split the box section. AJM took 3 weeks to come and fix it... Then the power module failed... weeks to get a new one.... then the connecting lead from the controller to the actuator module shorted... though it did get me home... then the batteries had bad connections and wouldn't charge, so got new batteries... then the actuator module failed....then the lead shorted again (apparently doesn't like damp or wet) more recently had new batteries again on the 22nd December 2016 - complete battery failure on xmas eve (the negative terminals weren't tightened) well they were overtightened and had stripped. Once AJM came out to fix it in January, twice in February, and 7 days this March and they took it away on one occassion. Now the chair is like a bucking bronco. an intermittent fault - possibly the controller.... I haven't used the chair in six days... I am now using a mish mash chair, part Invacare Mistral, part Marbella, with Valve compression springs from a mini for suspension.

The only thing I miss, not having, is the rise,tilt, recline. I hated that it would get it's casters that I cannot see caught on furniture or worse a cable. I miss the riser, big time, but only because the NHS made me pay extra for it. They say it does 4mph, it doesn't. 6KPH is not 4mph. There's no where to stow anything on it, you cannot put a wheely bag on it. It has places to fit lights, but no lights are fitted. Well almost, I have bicycle lights on it. And wired two motorcycle tail lights into the reflector panel, using 8 'AAA' batteries to power them. I aslo added a riser for the footplate actuator. so the footplates sit higher, and a riser for the recline actuator so the chair would be more comfortable.

It's a hard ride, not as safe as it appears to be. And the battery life at 50AH per battery totally inadequate. The NHS/WS and AJM say there is not a bigger battery that can be fiited to the narrow base. There is, they just dont consider using AGM batteries instead. The TDX2 is 11 months old now. And has only made one longish journey approx 10 miles and ran out of juice within half a mile of my home....though had to wait a bit, for battery recovery, did get me home. There is no way I would recommend getting an Invacare chair now, but maybe, you dont have AJM healthcare as the approved repairers.

It's on it's 3rd set of batteries, the front casters were tightened a week ago, as the stem bolts had come loose. The Engineer also noted the batteries were fitted incorrectly connection wise, but didn't correct it. AJM couldn't find the fault that causes the chair to buck. So I wont use again.
Sorry for the long winded post, and having not posting in a long while...

[Burgerman]

So, not happy then.

Heres the problem. They are providing you indoor chairs. You are trying to use them outdoors where they are not adequate, as everybody does. You will need to take the voucher instead, and add some cash, and get a real chair. Any make, including invacare is reliable if used for its intended purpose, and if assembled and adjusted and set up correctly. And all chairs, including invacare are completely useless otherwise!

Eg I bought this:

download/file.php?id=6081&mode=view

Brushless, 125Amp, riser, tilt, legs, recline, centre footplate, 38 miles / 59km range, good suspension on 4 wheels, oem programmer, 8mph (now 9 after bigger tyres and programming) and 3 year warranty. 30% discount, and zero VAT. Special order build, 3 weeks delivered. This is great for outdoors. Its configured correctly because I did it myself. And moved seat, fitted bigger tyres, reprogrammed, removed every bolt and greased, etc.

[Mechniki]

thanks BM

[harshad]

BM...this refers to the pic you posted in this thread on 22 March 17. Is this wheelchair completely built by you or have you modified an existing wheelchair? What make are the actuators? I can see a column actuator under the seat for seat elevation and the other linear actuators for recline, footrest and tilt.

So, not happy then.

Heres the problem. They are providing you indoor chairs. You are trying to use them outdoors where they are not adequate, as everybody does. You will need to take the voucher instead, and add some cash, and get a real chair. Any make, including invacare is reliable if used for its intended purpose, and if assembled and adjusted and set up correctly. And all chairs, including invacare are completely useless otherwise!

Eg I bought this:

download/file.php?id=6081&mode=view

Brushless, 125Amp, riser, tilt, legs, recline, centre footplate, 38 miles / 59km range, good suspension on 4 wheels, oem programmer, 8mph (now 9 after bigger tyres and programming) and 3 year warranty. 30% discount, and zero VAT. Special order build, 3 weeks delivered. This is great for outdoors. Its configured correctly because I did it myself. And moved seat, fitted bigger tyres, reprogrammed, removed every bolt and greased, etc.

[Burgerman]

Ah. I bought a chair that does tricks. I never had a chair with a seat lift around. At least not at the moment. And wanted to be able to wash my van roof, or reach stuff occasionally. So a seat lift... Also spent about 7 months on my bed with a sore or two which pissed me off a lot! So decided I needed tilt/recline, at least for some of the days when I am not active.

So for occasional use I bought a brand new Invacare Xplore Brushless, chair. An OUTDOOR/indoor chair. Why brushless? Its 2017! Doubles the range. No parts to wear out. Silent. Because it was very cheap!!!

And then made a few minor changes. Because as stock, its an abysmal oil tanker long unsteerable mess that only works in straight lines outdoors...

Initial order was made with two non standard options. (special build)
1. power CENTER footplates. Why? Because those damned silly swing away things hit everything. They are far too wide, stuck out ahead, and because I cant use a chair thats too nose heavy.
Swing away footplates only work if your seat is way too far forwards making indoor maneuverability terrible and the chair steer badly. And making it oil tanker long ... So a central plate allows you to move the seat mounting back a long way, and to lose the "corners" formed by the swing away footplates, and shorten the chair about 6 inches while moving the C of G back to where it should be for proper steering control.
Also:
2. A different joystick controller - REM550. (Now reprogrammed severely as I have OEM access, all original programming sucks really badly!!! (his chair is the same unsteerable garbage as every other here.)

Then modified it a bit after moving seating back/reprogramming.
3. Black front tyres...
4. Widened the rear wheel rims to be 3.5 inches, (from 1.75) wide, to allow the stronger, better wider 110/80-8 rear motorcycle tyres to be fitted.
5. Modified seating to change the angles a bit as I never want or need to have negative dump... So allowing further seat relocation.
6. Moved lights under the seat so they dont get wiped out by everything you get close to.
7. Added my trademark Anderson 112/24V charge/in/out connectors, so I can charge properly and at high speed.
8. Sprayed the footplates black wrinkle finish... They arrived in "corrosion silver"!
9. Rebuilt it almost. They never heard of grease in the factory. So much disassembly and greasing that it took days.
10. Cut off push handles as they were about 2 meters long and wiped out everything in the house... And simplified the headrest mounting, so it doesn't stick out and hit stuff as you turn in confined areas.

Now have a chair thats still a bit big/imprecise indoors, but a massive improvement. Tons shorter, and it steers properly. But it saves my skin literally, and reaches stuff. Gets used maybe 2 times a week. No bolt yet for van driving. I prefer my other chairs most of the time. They are more "instant" and more compact.

Before... Martin my carer having a rest! 24.5 wide.

After the above modifications/programming and now 27.0 wide.

[Burgerman]

Some more after pics... As these come, they are unusable, from programming to being way, way too nose heavy.
But a few minor changes and it transforms them.

Its covered in dust here. But otherwise used once before these pics taken.

[Burgerman]

Rear... Click for bigger.

[Burgerman]

Other way...

[Burgerman]

Another...

[Burgerman]

Another... Max Tilt. If I am not active, and sit all day as in winter I get sores. This tilt thing helps transfer weight and gives my backside a rest.

[Burgerman]

And it goes up! And because I have a programmer it can go faster than a crawl... So is useful to reach or clean now and again.

[Burgerman]

Front...

[Burgerman]

side

[Burgerman]

Charge...
At high amps fast, at 24V or at 12V. Or plug in the charger the other way and charge or start anything. Or power a bed/drill, AC inverter, etc.

[Burgerman]

Seat flat. You can drive around like this at the park, or waiting for a beer...

[Burgerman]

Flat other side... Feet in a more sensible position. Like this I can reach to clean my van. Or to a high cupboard.

[Burgerman]

Normal position.

8mph, (bit more with these bigger tyres), latest 3rd generation brushless so has a great 59km or 37 miles of range on its lead batteries. (And about 3x that when converted to lithium as soon as possible. So around 100 mile range!)

Its suspension on all 4 wheels, and bigger rear pneumatic tyres, mean its got probably the best pavement ride of any chair I ever tested. And the suspension is linked. It allows the chair to stay level as the surface pitches and feels like a boat! All highly adjustable. About 7k to your door.

[hank]

Like a swiss army knife or multi tool.
Looking good.

[Burgerman]

Thats why its heavy and cumbersome compared to my much lighter more agile BM2/3 chairs. But it does tricks. So you have to either have both, or compromise one way or the other.

[sin85]

considering you have seat lift, how did you manage to move seat back? is the lifting column now closer to the front of the seat? how many cm did you move?
the controller that you have, what are its advantâges? is oem programmer available? where?
did you widen the existing rims or did you get new ones? how did you do it or where did you get them?
i am putting all these questions as i am considering getting this chair and would do the same modifications.
thanks

[Burgerman]

considering you have seat lift, how did you manage to move seat back?

Spanners and built in adjustments, moving a few things to different positions, combined with not allowing the seat to go flat at 0 degrees, or forwards to -4 degrees as stock with 2 spacers. Or the elevating legs motor hits the seat mounting if not. And because theres no swing-aways, so also no caster problems.

is the lifting column now closer to the front of the seat? how many cm did you move?

7cm , yes.

the controller that you have, what are its advantâges? is oem programmer available? where?

Advantages are that with a complex seat setup, you can see whats happening, and easily choose the right option, set say profile 5 and reduce its speed and graphically see whats going on, etc. I used a REM24 and its hard to know whats going on. OEM? Easy! PM me.

did you widen the existing rims or did you get new ones? how did you do it or where did you get them?

On a brushless motor the motor itself forms half the rim. So making it wider is the only sensible option or you need to go to larger 10 inch rims. And that limits starting torque. How? Spacers, longer bolts, and a ring of steel sheet and pop rivets!

i am putting all these questions as i am considering getting this chair and would do the same modifications.
thanks

Its all pretty easy. But test a brushless chair before you buy!

Its quite am amazing to me that these are not more popular. There are fancier chairs on the market, and some more complex seating that offers more extreme angles etc. But at a high cost. And those are not brushless! As stock, esp with swing aways, and 30 feet long, with garbage programming it likely puts people off. Why do they not sort it out as I have, and tell the world about the brushless chairs they make?

Advantages:
Once reconfigured a bit, and with centre footplate, (the power centre plate option limits how far back the seating can be moved) it is a massive improvement over a long, un-steerable stock chair. But I realized this would be the case when I ordered it. Thats WHY I ordered it! As it is its good outdoors, but heavy and big indoors. I wouldn't want it for in the house or to drive from. But its great for outdoor range, comfort, and for relief if you suffer sores or need to reach high. Or if you are the sort that needs to sit higher at the bar! That doesn't interest me but some find this useful.

I dont like the tatty looking seat back. And am looking to see what else is available. Or get something made locally that is fabric sewn, padded and looks smart. Any suggestions? Maybe dark grey suede or something.

May make one from upholstery foam, then take it to be finished locally like a modern car seat.

[Burgerman]

You want one of these? How much in HK? If available.

http://www.invacare.com/cgi-bin/imhqprd ... y=HongKong Ask them!

[sin85]

with maroon or dark cherry red lateral supports???

[Burgerman]

?

[shirley_hkg]

You want one of these? How much in HK? If available.

http://www.invacare.com/cgi-bin/imhqprd ... y=HongKong Ask them!

Can't have it without £12K .

[Burgerman]

[markatavairagya]

Where did you purchase the chair and what model is it thanks?

[Burgerman]

Any invacere dealer, ring around for best price. One is a TDX SP NB. The other is a Storm 4 Xplore. I dont recommend the storm unless you are light and can modify it. As stock they have zero torque and so cannot turn and need Cof G moving back and reprogramming to be usable. And mine may be returned soon since it has inadequate torque for the job.

[Burgerman]

Its a shame, as I liked it. But its gone back to its maker for a full refund.

But even after moving seat back, etc, and careful programming, this chair does not have adequate starting torque for turn in place or threshholds from 0mph***. At my 20 stone weight. It claims to be good for 23.6 stone. But its just not.

So as long as you are under around 13 to 14 stone, you may be OK.

For the tech minded the problem is like this. A relatively low level of torque requires a truly massive BATTERY current at or near stall. And the programming allows this only for an instant, as it is trying to protect battery, loom, fuse etc. It then rolls back to a level that will not move the chair while it waits for everthing to cool. So if you are heavy, demand any sort of rapid turn acceleration, forget it. Its good side is that it really does take just 2 amps with both motors running at max speed to power the controller and brake, and motors. So on a long run range will be massive. So if you are light its still worth considering as long as you reprogram it pretty severely.

Its stock programming is nothing short of abysmal, and akin to driving a hovercraft. That can only be fixed to around 70% of what I would expect from a well programmed brushed chair. With a normal dealer or even OEM programmer. However theres IS a way to increase turn acceleration and turn deceleration from the normal maxed out settings of 70 and 100 by a considerable margin. This helps a lot to make it steer properly. But I should not divulge how its done just here! If you have any brushless chair and dont like its vague steering email me....

(***or it does but not for long enough, or only a couple of times)