Quickie F 55 rebuild

[avonf55]

Hi,

A couple of years ago I attempted a slight modification of my F55s having read your blog. I did much of what you suggested and ended up with a much smarter looking chair, although despite new motors, the new drive system, including bigger wheels and 73ah MK batteries, on the bit disappointed that it doesn't go any further on a full charge than it did.
Just been offered some funds to buy a new wheelchair, but can't find anything on the market that comes or loohesheks as good as my Quickie F 55s, so I'm looking at replacing some of the parts instead, motors, controller, etc. However, having given my local wheelchair shop the serial number of my chair, I've discovered that none are still available.

I've looked through your BM3 rebuild and see that you've used a set of Quickie Groove motors and a different controller. Did the motors fit straight onto the F 55 frame or did it need re-adjustment? And, could I use the S-Drive controller, now offered by Curtiss Wright/P&G, as an alternative to the Roboteq controller. I know it's probably inferior but I'm not interested in attaining extra speed, just a bit more endurance and would be content to end up with something resembling your BM2 rebuild.

Thanks in advance.

[Burgerman]

Why not fit lithium?
Get 2.5 to 3x the range?

I've looked through your BM3 rebuild and see that you've used a set of Quickie Groove motors and a different controller. Did the motors fit straight onto the F 55 frame or did it need re-adjustment?

Totally different! Also no longer available! Although a different but similar motor is available as a direct replacement to the AMT motors.

And, could I use the S-Drive controller, now offered by Curtiss Wright/P&G, as an alternative to the Roboteq controller. I know it's probably inferior but I'm not interested in attaining extra speed, just a bit more endurance and would be content to end up with something resembling your BM2 rebuild.

You will not get extra range by changing controller. And that controller is for a scooter and wont work for a chair. The only way to get better range is by using lithium.

This is a lithium BM2 chair.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5380&start=160
And scroll...
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5380&start=260

This, with the lower rolling resistance tyres, and a 120Ah lithium ion phosphate battery as shown will allow about 50 or so miles per charge.

[ex-Gooserider]

Unless you are having problems with the existing motors and controller, I wouldn't change them, as there isn't a lot of benefit to that. I'd second BM's suggestion of just doing a Lithium conversion...

ex-Gooserider

[avonf55]

Thank you both for getting back so quickly.

Why not fit lithium? For one thing, I don't have the expertise, although I could probably find somebody who does and what are we looking at, ballpark, to do the whole conversion, if I can please?

Where can I get new motors? Only I have a spare F55s sitting in the garage that could do with some.

The reason I was contemplating changing the controller stems back to when you built the BM1 and you substituted the original power module for a 100 amp one to allow for more torque and manoeuvrability. I didn't replace it when I did the work on my chair and I think it shows. Should I then consider the RoboteQ controllers?

Because of what I'm used to, I'm lucky if I can go a couple of miles on a full charge, which makes me think I've been driving around with the brakes on, 50 miles on a charge would be absolutely amazing.

Basically, it all comes down to cost, I'm afraid and some idea of that would be really helpful, as I don't know exactly how much I've got to spend.

Cheers

[Burgerman]

Before even consiudering fitting a roboteq controller you have a lot of learning to do! Its complex. Thousands of posts and hundreds of pages to go through, and you say not technical. You need to be technical for lithium You wont find anyone that will or can just do it. At least not in a worthwhile way. Again learning needed. Neither of these things are remotely plug and play.

Motors? EMD they have a website. https://www.parvalux.com/ Or modify and convert to something else.

They may be able to help if you know what you need. PM90, 174 RPM, 12v brake, and 4 pole...

Range will need a lithium education.

Cost for all of this is dependent on your abilities, how flexible you are, and your knowledge. Its easy to throw money at "experts" who dont have a clue. Esp batteries. But thats the only place range comes from.

[flagman1776]

I don't know what batteries your chair is fitted with both as a size designation and brand / model but wheelchairs are very hard on lead acid batteries... Often a too small space... you always want the biggest battery that can be fitted. And the best quality. Nothing else will do.
A Lithium conversion (LiFePO4 safer cell chemistry) is better but it requires knowledge. Your chair is designed to work on about 24 volts but it's no critical. You could leave the drive system and just convert the battery AND the charging system (A MUST).

[avonf55]

That kind of answers the question, why not fit lithium? Because you need to be technical. As for knowing what I need in the way of motors, a straight replacement for the F55s factory fitted motors, will that not be enough?

On Burgermans' advice, I fitted the largest batteries to fit the chair, 73ah MK batteries, but for reasons I still can't fathom, 2 miles is about as much as I can get out of them and I'm not exactly obese, a little overweight, but not obese.

[Burgerman]

Then the batteries are not new, or not charged correctly, or you live on a mountain side!

[steves1977uk]

This motor looks similar to the F55 motors... https://www.parvalux.com/pm90-150-gb12.html

Whether you can buy a pair directly from them I'm not sure. Maybe rover220 can help.

Steve

[rover220]

Can no longer get f55 motors and can only get 6kph groove. 13kph is only available for one side.

[rover220]

Puma 40 AMT are probably the nearest I could get.

[elryko1992]

Rover, where can i found two motors for Puma 40 to buy? 10km or more?

[Burgerman]

http://www.amt-schmid.com/en/products/r ... srg_06.php

You can find them where they are made. But they will not sell to end users in small numbers. They sell to the likes of sunrise, or whoever and manufacture mostly to order in batches to the spec required. So you will need to find a sunrise dealer.

[rover220]

Rover, where can i found two motors for Puma 40 to buy? 10km or more?

I can supply but they are not cheap.

[elryko1992]

I found something, but this is 10 or 13 km? : http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ALEX-MOTORS-G ... Sw4CFYqvsG

[elryko1992]

I know Burgerman, because i contact the AMT they don't sell to people, only sunrise or dealer etc.

[Burgerman]

Those are 350 watt, and I think that 160 may mean RPM so around 6 mph.

The 174rpm motors are usually 10kph or a bit over 6.2mph.

[elryko1992]

aha... thanks!

[rover220]

Those are 350 watt, and I think that 160 may mean RPM so around 6 mph.

The 174rpm motors are usually 10kph or a bit over 6.2mph.

Yes sounds about right. 13kph normally in region of 215 rpm iirc

[elryko1992]

thanks for information

[Burgerman]

My BM3 8.5 mph sunrise groove motors do 221 on 22V if that helps!

They also do 442rpm on 45V ans measured on my bench.

[elryko1992]

Nice motors, but i don't found anywhere 8.5mph, and i think is very expensive. My Typhoon 2 works very good and nice 12km/h 500W. Its a strong chair. I want to modified my wheels like your Storm 4 Burgerman. 110/80-8 , its good? you have a Typhoon? i see a photos with a wheel you modified?

[Burgerman]

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6151

You mean like this?

[elryko1992]

Yes John, like this. 110/80-8 i buy the tyre from Heidenau K75 because i don't found the Kitaco Duro, but is the same no? and i buy two tube with valve 90 grade, 3.50/4.00-8. And i make the spacer form steel 40mm to a factory, and i buy the bolt screws 65mm steel, but now i need to make the circle from wheels. Thats is hard for me because i can't do my self.

[Burgerman]

You need to do some measuring. The mesurements I used were for the chair I had. I have 2 more sets of brushless here.

They vary. Some have the ridge on the motor bell closer to the inside, or outside. Some have the wheel outer wider than others.

So you may end up with the rim too wide. Try to aim for a 3 inch wide rim for the 110 tyres. And a 3.25 for the 120 tyres. Thats between the inside edges. Because Heidenau K75 is slightly narrower and doesent seem to like wider rims as much as the Duro tyres. Tyre sizes are nominal... You are trying to end up wuth the rim, 6mm narrower than the tyre once fitted and inflated. Or the wheel will hit things.

[elryko1992]

I understand but now i buy this tyre and i will try with this to see how works. I will make some photos when i do the wheels to see. Now i wait a friend to help me to make the circle like yours.

[Burgerman]

Good, just trying to warn you not to make it too wide! Test with just spacers, and tube at low pressure.

[elryko1992]

ok thanks!

[avonf55]

http://www.amt-schmid.com/en/products/right_angled_drives/srg_06/srg_06.php

You can find them where they are made. But they will not sell to end users in small numbers. They sell to the likes of sunrise, or whoever and manufacture mostly to order in batches to the spec required. So you will need to find a sunrise dealer.

Thank you Burgerman, I'll get my dealer to look in that direction. Also found a ring smart battery charger pro 824 yesterday, which may solve my charging problem.

[Burgerman]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PUMA-HANDICAR ... SwnHZYkhOi