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Re: Videos - Rides

Postby snaker » 24 Feb 2018, 01:29

This one is exactly the same as my camera's problem :cussing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80NjYDR ... e=youtu.be

You can refer my video, it starts shaking at 00:55. In the period 00:00 - 00:54 (equally the first 145 minutes of the whole video), gyro works perfectly, no shake at all.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/sYda8EnjEyiiz6Kp1
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Re: Videos - Rides

Postby expresso » 24 Feb 2018, 17:25

yeah - about same - its annoying to me - i am returning it today - its packed already - will wait again till weather gets better and purchase another to test - overall the camera was good and i like the remote control - but needs better gyro or what ever is used to not make it choppy

i wonder if shooting at 1080p30 would result different ? i know 1080p60 is double the frames and that should be smoother - but maybe thats tripping it up and camera cant really handle it - i didnt test it at 1080p30 - on my next camera - i will do both before deciding -

my first which i felt was my best one now - was 1080p30 - Canany brand - cant find it anymore and it broke a while back - too bad now so many and hard to pick a good one
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Re: Videos - Rides

Postby Burgerman » 24 Feb 2018, 17:42

You are not getting it.

Gyro uses much power.
Camera at 60fps 1080P uses more power than 30fps.

Added together this uses more power than the USB charging gives. So battery discharges as you drive, and you then get a jumpy picture.

So swapping camera isnt likely going to help. A more powerful USB adapter may well fix it, or a more powerful charger may, or an adapter that goes in the battery compartment will do it.

You need to feed it 5V and about 2A. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SJ4000-5000- ... Sw7FRWXVkz

Ignore the output wires, cut them off.
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Re: Videos - Rides

Postby expresso » 24 Feb 2018, 18:49

So your saying this is all because of low power ?

i have another external battery which i can try on my next camera since i packed this already and going back today -

and i will text any new camera from now on with both 1080p30 and 60 -

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00 ... UTF8&psc=1

i have that one - but wasnt using it - was using my older one which is this one below

https://smile.amazon.com/Poweradd-Slim- ... F0NDYTQ8NQ

this makes it easy to just leave connected and last all day - i been using this from the start with all my cameras - - but up till now - my camera which i liked best Canany was 1080p30 and didnt even have a gyro or anti shake on it i dont believe - but seemed fine to me - now i am looking to improve on it and seems to be working against me -
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Re: Videos - Rides

Postby expresso » 24 Feb 2018, 18:54

https://www.ebay.com/itm/362018034248

if i got this cable instead - which dont see why my external battery pack wouldnt work the same -

but if i order this cable - what battery would i need to get to just plug it in - and how do i charge it then ?

please put link to the battery i would need and how to charge it - looking for plug and play stuff :)
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Re: Videos - Rides

Postby Burgerman » 24 Feb 2018, 19:58

How much power does your external usb battery put out? If its already high then it will not help.

Inside the camera is a "charger". It takes the 5V usb, and turns it into a CV voltage of 4.20v for the battery. If that charger is too small (say 300 or 400mA) then the camera will be using power faster than the internal charger can supply it. So the battery discharges after x time and the picture goes jumpy. And in this case a bigger supply wont help. Depends. So how many mA can your USB brick really give? It may be 500, maybe 1000. Maybe 3000.
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Re: Videos - Rides

Postby expresso » 24 Feb 2018, 20:04

i linked them above - the ones i been using - i been using the smaller 5000mAh size - i have a larger 6000 which is new havnt used it yet - i always used the 5000 size before with the camera which i no longer have - never had a issue - all day running - when i get home i recharge it - the battery in the camera never gets drained this way -

the camera should have power - but its possiable its getting weaker - when i got home it was on ONE bar left on my external battery - but still the battery in the camera should still have a full charge i believe at that point either way -

next one i try - i will use the new 6000 mAh external and try both 1080p30 and 60 to compare -
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Re: Videos - Rides

Postby Burgerman » 24 Feb 2018, 20:59

No I mean what is the OUTPUT capabiliy of the external batteries USB? Not the battery capaciy. If its low like 500mA that would cause your problem.

Found it.
Upgraded Charging Technology - Auto detect your device and deliver its fully-intended charge speed up to 2.1A at most once connected.
So thats not likely to be your problem. Although it could still be... Depends if the camera when in operation takes MORE than 2.1A.

but still the battery in the camera should still have a full charge i believe at that point either way -

IF the camera takes say 2.5A, and that USB socket in your external battery supplies 2.1A then your battery will NOT be full, it will be depleted which is why the camera starts jumping after a period of the day has gone!!! Thats the point.

It could also be that the camera takes 1A in use and the cameras internal BATTERY CHARGER that is built into the camera charges at half this rate. So your cameras battery will still end up empty even with a 3A USB!

Analogy... You are charging your powerchair from a solar panel as you drive. After maybe 60 miles you will stop, or only be able to go in fits and starts as the battery is dead and the solar panel not powerful enough.
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Re: Videos - Rides

Postby expresso » 24 Feb 2018, 21:09

who knows - will have to test on any future cameras i try out -

the link above with the wire you suggest to get -

how would that work - i would need some kind of battery at the end of it - which battery would i need to get - and is it plug and play ? then how to charge that battery ?
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Re: Videos - Rides

Postby snaker » 25 Feb 2018, 01:43

All powerbanks now support 2A charging, more than enough to feed a camera. The problem is the charger inside the camera. E.g mine only allows a 500mA current (maybe less in reality).

It seems this shake problem after a period of recording only happens to some specific brands, not to others. E.g some can use the power directly from a 5V external source, they can work with their battery removed. So they never have the problem of lacking power.
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Re: Videos - Rides

Postby expresso » 25 Feb 2018, 02:46

i never though of trying it with out the battery inside the camera and just my external attached - i would think its better to leave the battery inside and external connected -

on the next camera i get - i will try that - its too bad about that shake on some of the clips - the rest of the clips were very nice on my laptop -

now i have to search around again and take another chance with a different brand -
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Re: Videos - Rides

Postby snaker » 05 Mar 2018, 03:08

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Re: Videos - Rides

Postby expresso » 05 Mar 2018, 03:57

nice - almost looked like it never was going to end :)
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Re: Videos - Rides

Postby Burgerman » 05 Mar 2018, 13:32

Thats the sort of place you go early morning to eat your breakfast. And relax for a bit. And watch people go out fishing?

I do similar here, but our boats are a bit bigger. And almost completely gone. We joined the EU so we could have the largest fishing port in the world decimated. From hundreds of deep see trawlers, factory ships etc to a handful of tired old wrecks left today.

1984 a few were left:
Image
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Re: Videos - Rides

Postby snaker » 06 Mar 2018, 01:49

Thats the sort of place you go early morning to eat your breakfast. And relax for a bit. And watch people go out fishing?

No. I have not reached that high level :joint

It's just a poor fishing village along the sea. In fact people here live hard with a very small income. I just went by and saw this peaceful wharf. The water here is also clean and blue, no rubbish.
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Re: Videos - Rides

Postby hobie1dog » 07 Mar 2018, 05:25

Thanks for sharing this with us snaker.
Earth: The Insane Asylum of the Universe-nowhere else could things be more screwed up.

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Re: Videos - Rides

Postby snaker » 12 Mar 2018, 04:05

A ride along a sea dike. This road surface eats much power :cussing


youtu.be/aOlozlgiGOY
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Re: Videos - Rides

Postby expresso » 19 Mar 2018, 02:53

i think i found a decent camera for motion - AKASO Brave 4 is the camera i am using -

heres one clip i did yesterday -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFelgTTvYsE

video looks very good on my computer and motion seems to be much better than the last camera i tried -
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Re: Videos - Rides

Postby Burgerman » 19 Mar 2018, 12:50

Looks ok. Hard to tell on utube!
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Re: Videos - Rides

Postby expresso » 19 Mar 2018, 17:45

Burgerman wrote:Looks ok. Hard to tell on utube!



its doing a much better job on motion than the others i tried so far - so i think i will end up keeping this one - again it does show better on my Laptop screen - than my desktop - which i would have though the opposite - on youtube you can up it to 1080p hd and shows better

another thing to keep in mind - i made the changes to the settings from FWD to RWD - that made the chair a bit more unstable side to side movement i felt and i didnt like it on Zero - i have upped that setting to 40% and felt better to me yesterday -

it was set to 70% stock - so this video was when its on Zero - full RWD -

its still very cold to ride - and wont be doing much riding till June i think :) can further adjust that settings after i ride more - but at 40% it felt better than Zero -
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Re: Videos - Rides

Postby Burgerman » 19 Mar 2018, 19:47

You are using FWD stability algorythm to mask your hand control/coordination issues. Which is wrong. Rear drive is naturally already over stable. You should use 0% for rear drive or you get non proportional turn rate behaviour, and acceleration, dep on throttle/turn position.

And then add some tremor damping (under speeds) to aid the thing you are callimg instability. It removes the result of your hand jerking the stick due to your disability or technique.
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Re: Videos - Rides

Postby expresso » 19 Mar 2018, 20:25

Burgerman wrote:You are using FWD stability algorythm to mask your hand control/coordination issues. Which is wrong. Rear drive is naturally already over stable. You should use 0% for rear drive or you get non proportional turn rate behaviour, and acceleration, dep on throttle/turn position.

And then add some tremor damping (under speeds) to aid the thing you are callimg instability. It removes the result of your hand jerking the stick due to your disability or technique.



yes i can do that also - have to find the settings for tremor damping - its not me really but the chair over bumps etc, makes my hand move which in turn makes it unstable - till i test different adjustments - i will leave it this way since it feels fine - remember its been at 70% for past 3 years - so

on the other chair i left it alone with RWD settings since its either ON or OFF -
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Re: Videos - Rides

Postby Burgerman » 19 Mar 2018, 20:35

its not me really but the chair over bumps etc, makes my hand move which in turn makes it unstable


That is still you. :fencing A mix of incorrect joystick pod position and incorrect hand position. It allows unintended control inputs caused by terrain and your arms mass wobbling it about. Its also caused by a wobbly jotstick or arm mount. I personally dont get this at all, due to correct technique, and correct joystick positioning and solid mountings. Not one tiny bit. If you cant hold the side of the pod to give your hand a solid reference position and absolute hand stability, then you cannot possibly avoid unwanted control inputs over bumps. Which is always bad... :thumbdown:

In programing, Damping or so called Tremor Damping is a way of "dulling" the control by averaging the control inputs over x amount of time. It stops the chairs instant response if the stick is jerked around fast by bumps or disability. You need this in every single chair where the joystick is in the wrong position, so your hand cannot cup the side for stability for a solid unmovable reference position. And that means all stock chairs. Or where your disability doesent allow this level of holding or control. Tremor damping slows and reduces response to rapid movements only. Personally I hate it. I want the response. But you may need it.

Getting straight line stability by using any amount of front drive algo on a rear drive chair isnt the correct way to accomplish this.
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Re: Videos - Rides

Postby expresso » 19 Mar 2018, 20:59

Yes i understand all that you are saying - it will differ for each user and how ever there chair is setup - there hands - etc, - at the moment - everything will stay the same on my chair - i am looking into a different arm pad which will bring my hand arm lower and therefore raise the joystick where i hold it

i used spacers already and got it up as much as i can - which was a big difference from stock position - i bet any amount finding a disabled user to have everything on there chair just right and have there arm hand hold it just right is like finding a needle in a haystack - there are very few who have it just right - you are one of them
but most of us have to do it ourselves one way or another -

i believed i did it the best i can - but maybe theres a bit more room for improvement in that dept. - will try with different armpad - since the ones i have are very thick - using a thinner waterfall model from invacare - will bring the JS up higher and may make a Pos. difference or it may not -
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Re: Videos - Rides

Postby Burgerman » 19 Mar 2018, 21:10

it will differ for each user and how ever there chair is setup - there hands - etc


The ability and control capability may differ. But using a front drive algo to disguise the problem is always wrong. Tremor damping, and turn rates are the things you should be adjusting to make up for the differences. Preferably not turn acc/dec rates either.
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Re: Videos - Rides

Postby expresso » 19 Mar 2018, 21:29

Burgerman wrote:
it will differ for each user and how ever there chair is setup - there hands - etc


The ability and control capability may differ. But using a front drive algo to disguise the problem is always wrong. Tremor damping, and turn rates are the things you should be adjusting to make up for the differences. Preferably not turn acc/dec rates either.


i will do that and test what works best - it seems that ALL chairs come this way - at least all mines have - if i didnt have the tools to even access these settings - would never know - actually if you didnt bring it my attention - i wouldnt have given it any thought -

what i do notice also - i tried a few different tires if you recall - and the ones i am using now are a street trend duro front tire - 280-250 tire - its Ok - but i feel the Kenda had a better grip etc, but the larger 300-4 tire i removed was the best out of the bunch other for the fact that it made my chair too high up front and too airy bouncy - which affected it in a Neg. way for me

But the 300-4 tire had a better smoother turning as i move the chair around - side to side etc, - this new tire i just put on - seems a bit more sticky - i will be adding a bit more PSI to give it a little less resistance - i did get rid of the Wheel shake for good this time - used the higher slot on the fork - but it may have caused another issue i have yet to determine for sure till i add more PSI and try it again -

i kinda of hear a nose as i try to turn or move side to side sometimes - may be too much pressure on that front tire this way and maybe too little PSI -
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Re: Videos - Rides

Postby Burgerman » 19 Mar 2018, 22:43

Or your chairs high seating means it must be a fair bit nose heavy for stability reasons. So the casters are quite heavily loaded compared to my chairs for eg. So yes you may need more pressure. But you are now learning to notice these things and figure it all out!
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Re: Videos - Rides

Postby expresso » 19 Mar 2018, 22:56

Burgerman wrote:Or your chairs high seating means it must be a fair bit nose heavy for stability reasons. So the casters are quite heavily loaded compared to my chairs for eg. So yes you may need more pressure. But you are now learning to notice these things and figure it all out!


yes thats true with the seating also - its actually lower now that i put these tires on the higher slot on the fork - being this is the first time on Air - it changes everything -

the 300-4 tire was the exception - it was a strong tire and didnt need alot of PSI to still be firm since i am not that heavy either - i notice on my other chair with foam tires - Indoor chair - its smoother to turn when going slow or in tight areas etc, -

but with the Air tires - and lower PSI - it has more grip and it takes more to make it turn etc, -

just going from one tire to another - changes the feel - when i add more PSI to those fronts i have now - i am sure it will smooth itself out with more rolling and less resitence - when i am moving at speed - its not noticable really - its at slow speeds where the minor issue crops up - and i feel my rear tires are too much PSI also -

will lower the rear and add more to the front - make some minor changes with the tremor etc, and see how it feels next time i go out - being that its cold - wont be too soon - i hope by the summer time - i have it dialed in a bit better - will be also trying new armpads by then also -
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Re: Videos - Rides

Postby Burgerman » 19 Mar 2018, 23:08

Eventually once you figure all this stuff out, and get the chair, controller positioning, and CG, tyres, and programming all perfect then its a totally different chair. And its natural, easy, and highly usable and sort of automatic and predictable.

Then when you get in another stock chair, or a new chair it feels absolutely unusable! Even dangerous. Because it IS! I tested a lot of other peoples chairs over the years. EVERY stock chair is frankly useless. A few small changes make a massive difference.
And you become very picky and critical like me :fencing

And this is the part that leaves me bewildered. I suspect 95 to 99 percent of all powerchair users are in stock, badly programmed chairs, with incorrect cg, seating positions, wobbly mounted, incorrect controller positioning, bad joystick techniques, solid tyres, that are barely usable with evil programming and stupid turn acc/dec settings, and 101 other programming or configuration errors, and they do not even know! If you ask them, everything is just fine! They think their chairs are great! They think WE are nuts. :shock:
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Re: Videos - Rides

Postby expresso » 19 Mar 2018, 23:17

yes thats true and thats how 95% of users feel about there stock chairs -

But what works for one dosnt always work for another so - all you can do is put it out there and each users would need to figure it out on there own what works best for them - like i am doing now - i can only do so much but still makes a difference i can feel - i can feel when its worse and when its better with the changes -

who knows when i ever get my new chair - thats going to be another project chair if i dont get lithium with it - then its going to be converted soon after i get it - along with who knows what else i need to adjust - - not thinking about it - paying attention to my Main chair which i use 99% of the time in the summer

i have no problem using it as it is if i had too - so i am not stuck - but anything to make it that much better only helps
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