I see italy's politics

[Burgerman]

are all going well...
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44277888

They will be the next out of the EU. I think. But theres 4 or 5 others that are looking likely too!

[greybeard]

The demise of the godawful EU can't come quick enough but at the rate our spineless government is moving, some of the other countries will be out long before the UK - unless the whole rotten structure crumbles first. Here's hoping!

[Burgerman]

The problem is that we voted OUT, and won in a referendum. Out is the opposite to in. As in the same as before when we voted in!
We got a government leaflet, as part of the overwhelming remain numbers of all of the government, saying VERY CLEARLY that out would mean:

We would be poorer, and OUT of the single market. Out of the customs union. And back were we were, with no EU control, before the vote to enter the EU. Out of everything.

So what happened? We won.
The political elite, and media, didnt want it. They are all remainers. So TWO YEARS later, they are still arguing about coming half out. And after a thrown election by may on purpose, to give them less power, so that getting out in the way we VOTED for is harder to do, we are discussing staying in the customs union, and staying in the single market in some form. That means we are still in the damned socialist EU superstate in everything bar name, and control. And after we waited TWO YEARS we are now told that the "transition period" where the EU still control us, and we cant be free of their ruls, or trade elewhere, still apply is to be extended by 2 years. So if it isnt extended even further, it will be 7 years after the vote, before we are PARTLY out of the damned EU. And by then the heavily biased media and political class will have worn down enough people to rerun the referendum and get a remain vote. All this was planned when the people voted the "wrong way".

And the real reason people voted? We are all sick to death of both the EU bullshit and control, and the massive amount of immigration, esp muslims, that are basically destroying this countries culture and standards. And they show no sign of doing anything whatever about that. Other than branding anyone that doesent agree a racist or islamohobic. And we now have thought police for anyone with an opinion that disagrees with a liberal.

[Burgerman]

Italy is seeing the same. The gov elites wont allow the peoples choice to have power or do as voted. And it will end badly when this ignore the people attitude pro eu thing blows up in their faces..

[popschief]

To bad the voting majority who want the EU control eliminated
don't have assault fire sticks with high capacity magazines.

bp

[Burgerman]

They dont need them it never comes to that. Every overthrown government is removed by sheer weight of people saying they wont take any more instruction from a leader, they lose the power to govern. lack of credibility. Or their own citizens who have guns in their own millitaries take over temporarily and remove them. People power. But seldom many shots fired. EG... TODAY https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/01/euro ... index.html

You are just thinking about some daft NRA propaganda misused from your bill of rights that you blindly swallowed. And will now try and justify to prove you didnt...

Half of italy want EU.
Its similar to here with brexit.

Half this country voted out of the EU 51%
Half voted in 49%
Out just won. But the 49% are putting up a few barriers to try and stop us leaving. They will fail.

Arming both sides would do what? Cause a civil war, kill millions? Marvelous plan. Guns always cause death and destruction. All a gun is is a thing to make a small man feel big. A penis extension. The rest of the civilized world can easily see this. Americans, it seems cant. In the same way they still cling to fairy stories in the bible too! Eventually it will grow up and dump both.

[martin007]

The problem of Italy isn't the European Union.
Italy is different to UK.

The problem of Italy, Spain, France and Greece is that they don't want to pay their debts.

[Burgerman]

No the problem of itally is that two populist/right parties that are Euro sceptic, and wish to send home half a million immigrants are not being allowed to do this by the "establishment". Prompting a new election. But they now agreed to forget about dumping the Euro as a currency, and just concentrate on why they were really voted in. To deal with the immigrants as the voters wanted. And many surveys and polls have been done. Many want out of the EU, or more specifically want to change a lot of things being imposed on the country. And they want to dump the Euro more than 50% in polls.

[martin007]

To leave the EURO is to commit suicide economically.
The mistake was to enter the euro.

[Burgerman]

I disagree. The sooner they leave the better. And thats what they were voted in to do. Because if you take a bunch of relatively rich countries like Germany, and have a fixed currency/exchange rate like the Euro, then all the poor countries like greece spain, italy they cannot compete or sell to the world in a competitive fashion, their currency is valued too high. They can export and sell little. But the rich countries win. They have an artificially low value on their currency, meaning they can sell lots of VWs to the world. And make a good profit. Germany love this!

Any why would you want your currency tied to a massive socialist superstate run by non elected and non removable officials, an ever expanding (into poorer and poorer countries) massive block that want to basically take over where the soviet union stopped... I want no part of that!!! And if you had any sense neither would you. It will all either break up, or go super poor like the soviet block with all the lack of freedoms, and poverty and suffering that caused?

[martin007]

I want Spain to continue in the EURO.
Exit the Euro (for Spain) = Hyperinflation = Argentina = Venezuela = Zimbabwe



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation#Zimbabwe

[Burgerman]

Wrong.

Socialism is why you will eventually go hungry. You already have too much. The Euro is also part of your problem. I note your new prime minister is also socialist! I wish you a lot of luck with that!!! No predominantly socialist economy has ever succeeded in the history of the planet. Yet they keep on re testing it till people cant eat, begin real suffering, and death and destruction follows. Just like the whole of the eastern block, pre capitalist china, venuzuala is doing it now. And argentina isnt öfficially socialist but has severe socialist leanings and is one of the biggest problems it has for decades. Spain will follow in a decade. Socialism never works anywere.

[martin007]

You have a robust currency.
The British Pound is a safe currency.
You don't live in Spain.
UK is a serious country; Spain no.

Socialism is why you will eventually go hungry. You already have too much. The Euro is also part of your problem. I note your new prime minister is also socialist! I wish you a lot of luck with that!!!

I´m apolitical.

[Burgerman]

Thats rediculous. Define serious? The UK is a free trade and free market economy with some NHS and social care, and a few other socialist protections. Much like the US, and germany, etc. Mostly capitalist, with a little socialism. We dont have the Euro to suffer though. So our currency floats to reflect its true value. When we are strong its value rises. When weak its value drops. Which HELPS to make our products cheaper overseas. So we make more money, more sales. Yours cannot. Its tied to the EU permanantly, and its hurting all those countries that are struggling. Like the southern med countries. Its one reason you are poorer than you were. The EU, and its stupic common Euro is making you suffer.

And your new socialist minister will make you ever poorer and the standards of living will fall, over time. And if you continue down the socialist path, and become a predomanantly socialist country you will go the way of argentina, And every other socialist economy.

[martin007]

And your new socialist minister will make you ever poorer and the standards of living will fall, over time. And if you continue down the socialist path, and become a predomanantly socialist country you will go the way of argentina, And every other socialist economy.

What you say is already happening.

[Burgerman]

Well now you know why. And it will get MUCH worse. Get out of the restrictive rule making EU that is holding back all of your industries. Get rid of the stupid Euro. Get rid of your socialist government. Scrap all the socialist policies. And vote in a capitalist government. Allow your currency to float and find its natural market value.



Then promote business, and trade, and production. HELP them, dont saddle them with rules and restrictions, and dont tax them to death. The rest follows. In a decade or so the EU wont exist. At least not in its current form. Look what they did to poor greece. And they will still be in debt in 50 years time.

There are voters and polititions all over the EU in every country endlessly telling the EU project leaders that they dont like what they are doing or dont want more integration. They then IGNORE this, and the result is Brexit, and far right in italy etc. Its happening all over europe.

[martin007]

It has been a pleasure to discuss with you.

[Burgerman]

And you. I am now on my 5th ... Not because I want to. For my bladder infection. Coming out like water right now!

[Lord Chatterley]

Italy gives the rest of Europe a lesson on how to treat refugees:

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/10/italy-shuts-ports-to-rescue-boat-with-629-migrants-on-board?__twitter_impression=true

LC

[Burgerman]

They are NOT refugees though are they. They are mostly african muslims economic male fighting age migrants wanting whatever they can get for free. And expecting europe to give them it.

[Lord Chatterley]

Yep - I'm tired of these people coming here and immediately issuing threats and demands.

LC

[Burgerman]

I reworded this...

They are NOT refugees though are they. They are mostly barbaric, african muslim, male fighting age, economic migrants wanting whatever they can get for free. And expecting the soft liberal/socialist EU to give them it while they destroy our stable culture and society.

Tell me, why do I as a tax payer want the above? Why do I OWE them anything?

The leftist political elites, the ethos of the socialist superstate EU, the media, and the educational establishments push this crap endlessely. The PEOPLE however dont want it. Hence the rise of the right, the growing number of anti immigration and anti EU governmrnts getting into power across europe. The populist parties. The gert wilders, le penn, and countries such as hungary, poland, czech republic etc etc. The EU had better wake up. The people dont want a soviet style dictatorship even if the idiots in power do. And the EU wont survive which is a good thing.

[Lord Chatterley]

The NGOs are actually creating this problem by paying people smugglers and then by breaking international law by not taking the 'refugees' to the closest & safest ports - ie. Tunisia.

LC

[Burgerman]

New Italian Interior Minister Matteo Salvini is taking a hard stance on letting migrants into Italy

But they dont want to go to tunisia. Theres no free housing, free money.

THey want EU papers. So they can come here. Free house. Free NHS, free spending money, grants to build mosques everywhere to spread the desease. Free prescriptions. Extra free money if they have kids. But fortunately most are fighting age men. So thats good then...

If they are real refugees, there should be equal numbers of women, around 10% disabled, old, and at least half children. Most of these "children" are about 20 and have beards.Thats not what we see, even though the media go out of their way to film near the only real children or women they can find.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6497894/m ... sion-dock/

Thius is what we actually see.
About 500 of them, and 100 children, women, etc. Where are the older ones? Some of the children below. 120 unacompanied ones.

[martin007]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44441386

[Burgerman]

Yes. Spain will get sick of immigrants turning up, and demanding everything and causing huge cultural issues if only by sheer numbers. Then a rise in the right will happen there. If its not alraady.

"The biggest migration movements are still ahead: Africa's population will double in the next decades. A country like Egypt will grow to 100 million people, Nigeria to 400 million. In our digital age with the internet and mobile phones, everyone knows about our prosperity and lifestyle." — German Development Minister Gerd Müller.

"Young people all have cellphones and they can see what's happening in other parts of the world, and that acts as a magnet." — Michael Møller, Director of the United Nations office in Geneva.

"If we do not manage to solve the central problems in African countries, ten, 20 or even 30 million immigrants will arrive in the European Union within the next ten years." — Antonio Tajani, President of the European Parliament.

If we allow it, then our european lifestyle and culture will soon vanish under the weight. And they breed much faster than the europeans do. Making sure they take over. And they dont/wont integrate. Especially the muslims.

Spain is on track to overtake Greece as the second-biggest gateway for migrants entering Europe by sea. The sudden surge in migration to Spain comes amid a crackdown on human smuggling along the Libya-Italy sea route, currently the main migrant point of entry to Europe.

The westward shift in migration routes from Greece and Italy implies that Spain, situated only ten miles from Africa by sea, may soon find itself at the center of Europe's migration crisis.

More than 8,300 illegal migrants have reached Spanish shores during the first seven months of 2017 — three times as many as in all of 2016, according to the International Organization for Migration (IOM).

Thousands more migrants have entered Spain by land, primarily at the Spanish enclaves of Ceuta and Melilla on the north coast of Morocco, the European Union's only land borders with Africa. Once there, migrants are housed in temporary shelters and then moved to the Spanish mainland, from where many continue on to other parts of Europe.

In all, some 12,000 migrants have arrived in Spain so far this year, compared to 13,246 for all of 2016. By comparison, 14,156 migrants have arrived in Greece so far in 2017.

Italy remains the main migrant gateway to Europe, with around 97,000 arrivals so far this year, compared to 181,436 for all of 2016. Italy has been the main point of entry to Europe since the EU-Turkey migrant deal, signed in March 2016, shut off the route from Turkey to Greece, at one time the preferred point of entry to Europe for migrants from Asia and the Middle East. Almost 600,000 migrants have arrived in Italy during the past four years.

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/1084 ... ant-crisis

[Burgerman]

And now he turned away 2 more and is causing mayhem with the lefty/liberal socialist superstate EU. Love it! Its about time.