The difference was the moral, legal and scientific philosophy in the UK protected the principle of individual rights.
Firstly, define capitalism. Define socialism.
After the Second World War America produced around half of everything that was produced in the world. If capitalism is so great, why has this diminished to such a massive degree?
Why does Britain virtually produce nothing when it used to be the workshop of the world? If you take out the City of London, the UK would fall way down the pecking order of economic powers in the world. again, why if capitalism is so great? And why is China doing so well?
https://www.ft.com/content/9bf532a8-66d ... 589957ada4
funkykeyboard wrote:In the First World War Russia was defeated. It was unable to compete industrially/economically, and this meant it couldn't compete as a military power.
Within a few years after the revolution and the formation of the USSR it virtually single-handedly defeated Germany, Europe's number 1 industrial power. It went on to become the world's number 2 superpower. How?
but Marx and Engels did not define capitalism by a distinction between bureaucracy or individuals having control. For Marx and Engels feudalism was still feudalism whether the church ran it or the King and Lords.Marxism isn't a management analysis, it's a class analysis. It wasn't about state control:Burgerman wrote:Firstly, define capitalism. Define socialism.
100% capitalism.
Capitalism simply means free trade without government interference or taxation, and certainly not redistribution of wealth. Free trade means free markets means, labour cost, price of services or products are simply based on supply and demand and dictated by only the free market pricing with no government distortions.
100% Socialism,
means that goverments centrally plan everything. Unlike capitalism, it aims to be totalitarian. To control your life. You cannot start, own or run a company or employ labour. You cant decide where to work, what to do, you are told. You cannot develop a car, an iphone, or a drug. Thats for the government to decide. You cannot own property, cars, or your fridge. Everything is controlled by a massive government beurocracy. Theres no free market, no free trade, no self employment, and no freedom or escape. If you want a car, or to move house you add your name to a list. In a decade, you will get what you are given. Theres no competition in the market, so theres no product improvement.
but Marx and Engels did not define capitalism by a distinction between bureaucracy or individuals having control.
For Marx and Engels feudalism was still feudalism whether the church ran it or the King and Lords.Marxism isn't a management analysis, it's a class analysis. It wasn't about state control:
Withering away of the state" is a Marxist concept coined by Friedrich Engels referring to the idea that, with realization of the ideals of socialism, the social institution of a state will eventually become obsolete and disappear, as the society will be able to govern itself without the state ...
Yaron also seems blissfully unaware of the distinction between socialism and communism that Marx and Engels envisioned.
I have no idea who is right about what is best for humanity, but if Yaron is going to attack Marx and Engels, shouldn't he attack what they actually said?
In a purely capitalist society, 1 of its great strengths, you buy Labour not the labourer. When you have no need for the Labour, the labourer can die. It's of no concern to you.
You and I would be dead wouldn't we?
forget the debate about global warming, let's just accept its reality hypothetically.
If global warming exists, how can a bunch of individuals each pursuing their own interest deal with it?
Look at the history of China. Always had a very strong state control over the country. Until capitalism, it consistently led the worldin technology. Statism, is not socialism.
Burgerman wrote:Its not capitalism though. There was no free trade, no or little ownership of property or business by individuals. And yes it was still socialist.
Capitalism is the thing that stopped them dying with minor infection or rotten teeth or starvation. Capitalism gave them freedom. Choice. And it made the country wealthy on the back of it, allowing people to have a decent standard of living with such things as enough food, power, heat, transport, medical care, education, the ability to afford a safety net for those that couldnt work, Its the thing that made people free. And fed them. And made them live longer, healthier lives.Look at the history of China. Always had a very strong state control over the country. Until capitalism, it consistently led the worldin technology. Statism, is not socialism.
It had ABSOLUTE control over everything and everyone. Almost zero indiviudual freedoms. And predictably desperately poor. It was a communist dictatorship, and a socialist economy. The only thing it led the world in was totalitarian control, exreme poverty, death, lack of freedom, and mortality.
Sorry. When I grew up china had nothing. Literally eating dead roadkill and dead babies for protein. And no power, no medical care, no clean water, certainly no transport for the masses. As far as technology goes, if they had any, it wasnt obvious! And certainly didnt help them under their system. Or lead the world!
There has never been proper capitalist society in its pure form, there has always been monopoly and monopsomy issues in capitalism. Which has got even worse today with the massive concentration of capital that took place over the last 40 years.
Burgerman wrote:Its not capitalism though. There was no free trade, no or little ownership of property or business by individuals. And yes it was still socialist.
Capitalism is the thing that stopped them dying with minor infection or rotten teeth or starvation. Capitalism gave them freedom. Choice. And it made the country wealthy on the back of it, allowing people to have a decent standard of living with such things as enough food, power, heat, transport, medical care, education, the ability to afford a safety net for those that couldnt work, Its the thing that made people free. And fed them. And made them live longer, healthier lives.Look at the history of China. Always had a very strong state control over the country. Until capitalism, it consistently led the worldin technology. Statism, is not socialism.
It had ABSOLUTE control over everything and everyone. Almost zero indiviudual freedoms. And predictably desperately poor. It was a communist dictatorship, and a socialist economy. The only thing it led the world in was totalitarian control, exreme poverty, death, lack of freedom, and mortality.
Sorry. When I grew up china had nothing. Literally eating dead roadkill and dead babies for protein. And no power, no medical care, no clean water, certainly no transport for the masses. As far as technology goes, if they had any, it wasnt obvious! And certainly didnt help them under their system. Or lead the world!
capitalism
ˈkapɪt(ə)lɪz(ə)m/
noun
noun: capitalism
an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.
"an era of free-market capitalism"
synonyms: private enterprise, free enterprise, private ownership, privatized industries, the free market, individualism; laissez-faire
socialism
ˈsəʊʃəlɪz(ə)m/
noun
noun: socialism
a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
synonyms: leftism, Fabianism, syndicalism, consumer socialism, utopian socialism, welfarism; More
communism, Bolshevism;
radicalism, militancy;
progressivism, social democracy;
labourism;
Marxism, Leninism, Marxism–Leninism, neo-Marxism, Trotskyism, Maoism
antonyms: conservatism
policy or practice based on the political and economic theory of socialism.
synonyms: leftism, Fabianism, syndicalism, consumer socialism, utopian socialism, welfarism; More
communism, Bolshevism;
radicalism, militancy;
progressivism, social democracy;
labourism;
Marxism, Leninism, Marxism–Leninism, neo-Marxism, Trotskyism, Maoism
antonyms: conservatism
(in Marxist theory) a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of Communism.
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