Will the EU muck up the internet?

[Gnomatic]

I've been reading up a bit on the EU's copyright directive that's currently being negotiated. Seems EU parliament coughed up a bureaucratic hairball with significant possible unintended consequences.

One of the main rubs is the part that on a site like Youtube for example, the proposed law you shift any copyright liabilities from individual content uploaders onto Youtube itself. And there's no possible way Youtube can police all the content that is constantly being uploaded to it. Thats just one example.


youtu.be/gYU77Qqvy-U

I suppose its crap like this that made the whole Brexit vote happen.

[Burgerman]

Correct.

Its another ridiculous bunch of legislation written by a bunch of idiots that think they can control the internet.

Its totally unworkable. But they dont understand or care about that. The EU is all about ideals and socialism. It would affect this site for eg. And I am not about to start policing the internet to please a bunch of unelected bureaucrats. And neither will anyone else! For starters its all hosted in Canada. And can easily move in about 1 hour to the Russia, Philippines, etc. Tell me. How will the EU get anyone to take down BILLIONS of images, or check who owns them, or who posted them? Esp mine as I use a VPN and my IP is currently in south America.

Another example. They forced all the UK ISPs to remove or block links to hundreds of pirate sites. It took me all of 10 seconds to re-route my internet and change my IP to circumvent that.Took them 3 years to get through parliament, and get the big ISPs to do as they are told... And 10 secs to fix! Same as all this pop up boxes asking if its OK to grab all your user info. That only works on other peoples computers. I simply dont see it. Same as ads. I never saw ANY ad on any site for about 8 years now.

To make or sell a pillow in the EU you must comply with 108 regulations. And you must comply with a further 9 to make the cover. And some of these rule out the small manufacturers as the amount of paperwork and testing and certification is too complex and needs a full time solicitor working for you.

[MichaelB]

You might find that it is a reaction to the public desire to have control of the internet. Politicians have little idea of how things actually work and the UK is no different to the EU. By its nature the internet can't be controlled as those who want to will find a way around anything introduced to control them. I've been using it since 92 and nothing has changed, the clever kids always find a way around.

They haven't worked out that it is anarchy.

[Burgerman]

Years ago my local hobby flying club, had members, fees, an address, and was a legal entity. We had people in charge that were hopeless ad flying but loved the mentality of clubs and committees and rules etc. We as a club faced endless battles with the authorities about rules, flying site access, noise etc.

I left. Along with 6 or 9 others. We have no legal entity, no point of central command, no address. They eventually banned that club from flying at 3 sites. We of course still do. Those with the rules and centralised control mentality, said we needed to be one big body in order to have a chance to fight them. They were completely wrong of course. Since they are now banned and we continue as before because we baffle them. No way to control a dozen unknown individuals.

The government think someone controls the net. They dont. Its just a bunch of computers all over the planet. You dont even need a web host, I used to do that on my own PC. They are of the mentality that they can control things. But they never recognize that legislation, rules, only work if people recognize them.

They will stamp feet and go all red. But it will never have any real effect. The internet was designed to be unstoppable. Theres no central point. No switch. No way to control what 200 countries and millions of users do, host, copy, steal, or decide. As such I can download ANY software. And use it as if it was registered for free indefinitely. I can watch any TV channel broadcast or re-run, from any country for free. I can watch or download any movie, and any game for free. I can do it all anonymously, and never see any adverts anywhere ever. Its all about knowledge as usual. And governments cant stop it. No matter what they think. Even things like netflix are free. You can sign up for a month free as a new user. Hint. A new user is a new IP address and a new throwaway email address. Rinse and repeat.

[Gnomatic]

Also in this EU copyright crap, is Article 11. Which forces news aggregators like Google News to pay a fee/tax to web publications they link to. Spain tried this four years ago. Spanish newspapers and publications lobbied for and got a Spanish law passed that sought to impose fees on Google for its Google News service. They felt Google was "stealing" their content.

In response, Google rightfully told Spain to go get bent, and shut off its Google News service to all of Spain. What happens? Traffic to Spanish news sites and publications plummeted, and they lost revenue and some went out of business. Seems the EU wants to replicate this phenomenon to all its member States.

And of course, any Spaniard who wants access to Google News can simply use a VPN and get as much Google News as they can handle. Its as if the Spanish gov woke up one day and said "Hey, why don't we pass a law that hurts businesses and consumers alike, while being completely unenforceable!" The EU thinks its a good model to replicate.

[Burgerman]

Because when it comes to ANYTHING where some knowledge is required, like the interweb, human made global warming, power, etc then they are clueless. All they do is listen to very shallow, bullshit given off by the leftist, liberal and progressives. And then like macron bankrupt the people - already suffering because of their years of overly socialist ways, in a daft and futile attempt to save the planet. Now they are rioting in the streets and he doesn't get it...

Right now I am downloading some movies from a site that the UK gov banned, and also watching US Netflix series, with a throwaway IP/Email on another free trial...

Of course the UK passed a law blocking sites such as the piratebay.org which just caused the internet to respond! The week after blocking the pirate bay torrent sit, these few extra redirected URLs below appeared, and as fast as they get blocked more new ones pop up! All just wack a mole ridiculousness. And that just ONE site, they blocked hundreds. And are still trying! Governments are 2 generations behind on anything technical always.

08954317678950.com
argentinabay.info
bayproxy.pw
belgiumbay.info
denmarkbay.info
fattorrents.ws
finlandbay.info
germanybay.info
greecebay.info
hizliresim.com
indiabay.info
indonesiabay.info
iranbay.info
irelandbay.info
italybay.info
magnetsearch.net
magnetsearch.org
mctorrents.se
netherlandsbay.info
norwaybay.info
pbproxy.com
piratehole.com
pirateproxies.info
pirateproxies.net
pirateproxies.org
pirateproxy.wiki
pirateproxybay.com
piratetavern.net
piratetavern.org
piratewiki.info
proxypirate.pw
saudiarabiabay.info
singaporebay.info
swedenbay.info
themeatbay.com
thenewbay.org
thepirateproxy.co
theproxy.pw
tpbay.co
tpblite.com
tpbproxy.cc
tpbproxy.pw
turkeybay.info
ukbay.info
unblockbay.com
unblockthepiratebay.net
unblockthepiratebay.org

[Gnomatic]

youtu.be/89ZkydX0FPw

[Burgerman]

Funny. But no matter what governments do with the web, it will ultimately be possible to bypass it and carry on as normal. It was designed that way to make it reliable and non stoppable from the start. Its built of backup routes and solutions! Its like the gov trying to stop porn on the net and make it child friendly. Some tart giving a donkey a blow job is always 3 clicks away at all times. They cannot stop it, no matter how illegal they make it in say the UK, as its likely hosted on a server in some lawless 3rd world country or on someones laptop server in a bedroom. And that can have a new IP in 3 mins flat via encrypted VPN! They are living inside some kind of imaginary power trip. Because they do not get the complexity, or how the web works. Whole countries like north Korea block the entire outside world. Or try. But those with little knowledge, and only mobile phones just find ways to get around it.

I can host anything I want on my PC or laptop, and can connect via cable, or via the phone line, or via mobile internet data (4G now, and 5G very soon which is super fast) anywhere as I move about. Latency is crap, but speed is adequate now. With ever changing routes and different fake IP addresses. Even fake DNS servers that know my changing IPs. Its not possible to stop me. And I am ONE person. Governments are dreaming.

[Gnomatic]

True. And then there's Tor and the dark web that's even harder to track and ANYTHING can be purchased.

[Burgerman]

My VPN has tor built in... Belt and braces! Best and fastest VPN on the planet and zero logs guaranteed. And many add-on security features too. https://www.expressvpn.com/

And I am connected via a power-line wifi extender connection from TP link with firewall, to a hardware firewall cable router. And use Ublock Origin as an ad and data as well as other protection against ID and leaked info tool. Also a faked network address and a made up random hardware address that changes a dozen times daily. Including Anonymous DNS servers from my VPN with no logs. I wish the spammers, government, hackers, data collectors, advertisers, and all those attempting to block or control internet access all the best!

Another essential, is U-Block Origin.
Yes it blocks ads. Even utube embedded etc. But it lets YOU choose what to block. Logos? Those annoying boxes that ask for money or to agree to see the page, and anything else you dont like on a site.

https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... ock+origin

[MichaelB]

The only thing that limits the internet is speed, net neutrality is the key, as long as ISP's honour that there are few limits. But that won't stop those who think that it can be controlled as they don't understand it. There are still risks for individual site owners dependent upon what they publish but with no global rulebook easy to get around. I've been using it since 1992 and can almost find whatever I want although cracked R Net no dongle software is proving elusive

[Burgerman]

The only thing that limits the internet is speed, net neutrality is the key, as long as ISP's honour that there are few limits.

Capitalism, and free user choice of ISP will see that its not a problem. I for 1 will ditch any ISP that doesn't keep it fair. Thats why it works. As soon as they see their business dwindle they will have a rethink! Theres hundreds to choose from all offering something different here. In any case, the UK keeps on offering faster and faster speeds that nobody needs. I reduced my 100mb to 30, cant detect any difference in normal use. I remember when it was a problem in the early windows 3.1 days because I bought a "fast" new at the time, 14.4kbs dial up modem! When I finally got a 512 cable modem it was ridiculously fast on web pages, mail, etc. And when it went to 1 mb I was amazed. Really what we have now isnt any faster, unless you are downloading 4k uncompressed movies all day. Its just marketing. Most people never use 5% of their bandwidth. So colour me unworried!

[MichaelB]

It'll depend upon how ISP's survive and where the controls are. Plus location, I get nowhere like the speeds a lot of users do, 2 years ago we were flooded and moved to a temporary home, was lucky to get dialup modem speed eventually organising a line of sight connection. Also got to remember that a lot of people don't understand and just take a package from BT or Sky. Personally I will stick with my small ISP based in Hitchin where I know the owner and any problems resolved quickly and easily, personal service still means something.

2400 baud dial up when I started even when it got to 56k albums still took forever to download

Government has never and will never control it but politicians haven't worked that out yet.

[Burgerman]

t'll depend upon how ISP's survive and where the controls are. Plus location, I get nowhere like the speeds a lot of users do, 2 years ago we were flooded and moved to a temporary home, was lucky to get dialup modem speed eventually organising a line of sight connection. Also got to remember that a lot of people don't understand and just take a package from BT or Sky.

Capitalism, if not controlled or distorted by socialistic rules or taxation, means that good solutions will appear to fill the gaps to provide what you the consumer needs. Driven by market forces (that socialist dirty word, profit) E.g. musk is about to launch a worldwide accessible space internet service thats fast and cheap. And theres many new radio systems appearing. And theres the new super-fast phone signal data systems, about to be launched...

Of course if you tax musks personal wealth more, or his business, he cant invest in massive global fast cheap internet, so everyone suffer=s and pays more. That how trickle-down really works. Society wins, trump wins. Socialist practices prevent him doing it.

[MichaelB]

The issue is "what the consumer needs" for the majority Sky and BT can deliver that. The smaller ISP's have to attract enough customers to make a service viable. Throw in expensive infrastructure and the cost/profit/risk doesn't always make sense. That is what capitalism falls down on. The market must be big enough to warrant the investment.

It will be interesting to watch, AOL, Demon etc etc examples of how easy it is to get wrong. For now I will just rely upon useless politicians to attempt to regulate what they don't understand

[Gnomatic]

Capitalism can bring the most services at the cheapest cost to the consumer. However, that doesn't mean all regulations are bad or unnecessary. As far as the internet goes here in the US, a big issue has been Net Neutrality - without which ISP's could play favorites and throttle content from companies who don't pay for the privilege of accessing said ISP's customers. Now, if the consumer has available a variety of choice in their ISP, that can work. However, in most the US, there is only one maybe two choices of ISP's for a given consumer. And on many occasions over the last decade or two, big ISP's have publicly stated their desire to create fast lanes for web services that pay, and throttle those that don't.

But such practices are highly unpopular politically. So while ISP's here in the US have lobbied successfully to the Trump admin to roll back the net neutrality regs the Obama admin put in place(which got a huge boost from the John Oliver clip below), they seem to be taking a cautious approach to upending things ...... for now at least.


youtu.be/fpbOEoRrHyU

[Burgerman]

But ultimately capitalism still wins. In the very same way it brought you computers and the internet in the first place.

The search for solutions to the lack of competition in the sticks in the US and across the world wont last long. Because the driving force of capitalism, is money! Theres a gap in the market. Many are clamoring to fill it. So such things as long range radio towers, power-line internet services, are all starting to appear. And many companies can offer piggyback services on all these new methods. Also the new super fast and very low latency 5G systems, including planned satellite systems. Because there are many worldwide ISP services in the pipeline, that will feed a desert in africa or a busy city in europe equally. Including Musks one. All super fast, low latency setups. Any that start to charge their suppliers for faster content speeds, or throttle others will be dumped. Competition is on the way. Right now I can choose literally hundreds of suppliers to my home. And when 5G turns up, then most of that cable, fibre, copper wil be history. Its all going to be wireless one way or another. If any ISP company here that I was using started throttling certain companies products, they would be dumped immediately. Others would do the same. And they know it. They have to compete on features, speeds, services, reliability, and cost to stay ahead here.

There are over 200 ISPs in the UK. At least wired/cable ones. And these all offer different services at different prices but many of them piggyback the biggest 4 companies systems. But the law here makes them allow all these other companies to do this. So MOST of the UK has an awful lot of choice. Already. But wait while everything goes wireless. And satellite. And power-line...

[LROBBINS]

but many of them piggyback the biggest 4 companies systems. But the law here makes them allow all these other companies to do this.

So, in Great Britain there IS net neutrality.

[Burgerman]

The one drawback to capitalism, is monopolies. We have a monopolies commission. So the same happens with gas, electricity. And water. And any essentials that may grow into an noncompetitive entity.