The problem is bigger than Brexit. Being in the EU a year or 3 longer doesn't impact on anything other than some rich f'cks not avoiding the EU tax investigations they were doing their best to get out of.
We need to fix our political system so that we can make voices heard which means probably coalitions not the 2 party no choice choice. Handing more control (not that we didn't have enough control) to inept government is stupidity first we need competent government. Handing it to a party who are fixated on one thing even stupider. PR could of changed everything, UKIP would have had MP's had a voice in parliament and been involved, MP's of different parties work together not follow Corbyn and his lunacy or May and her inflexible position. Even worse, we might exit with May's withdrawal agreement, that really would be stupidity, out but without any of what we have now. Just getting out is not an answer it has to be out with the right terms not tied to something that we can never exit from.
you won't achieve a decent Brexit
Unfortunately we can't just leave, read that page on the withdrawal agreement, citizens rights, security IP, judicial matters. Personally I would want to continue to work with Europe on security, get information from them and reciprocate. Keep immigrants on the French side of the channel etc, etc.
It is about UK citizens rights who live in Europe,
our security where we share criminal data, joint policing operations, Euroatom. The legal nuts and bolts that tie us to the EU and these need to be taken apart legally.
We have to convert a multitude of EU law into UK law which hasn't progressed quickly and is being pushed through in bulk not looking at each law and whether we want it.
And the reality is no Parliament is going to give approval to a no deal exit under any circumstances, we've got more chance that the EU will get sick and walk away.
Sadly we don't get to decide anything as this fiasco proves, that is beyond obvious. If May gets that withdrawal agreement past Parliament we need to be able to stop it, if we don't it won't be Brexit other than in name, tied to the EU in transition arrangements, a £39bn bill and backstop that could limit our ability to trade forever and the only way out would be under EU control. I'm ambivalent to Brexit, can see benefits in each but don't want to end up worse off than we are now
but we could if MP's pass it or even worse a version with a Labour backed customs union and I want to be able to have a final say. I can't understand why Leave voters don't see the risk of a non Brexit Brexit and don't want to have a vote to be able to stop it, must have more trust in our political system than I do.
You just don't get that we will probably leave under a revision of May's withdrawal agreement combined with Corbyn's custom union, that is not the Brexit anyone wants.
The only way to stop it is a vote on whether the electorate want it, we don't!
It is a worse position than we are in with our current terms. Unless you think that May's deal is acceptable?
Obviously given the local election results there was huge support for the Lib Dems and their second referendum plans and UKIP lost ground but a confirmatory vote is the only way to prevent us leaving under a terrible agreement.
We might not be able to negotiate any trade deals if they move to a customs union so long term we will be worse off.
Even the planning they have done for no deal is bad, there are too many problems trying to do WTO rules so they have already set new duty rates for thousands of items but nothing on anti dumping duty which protects many UK manufacturers from cheap Chinese imports. Instead of exporting more it'll be cheaper to import. They just kneel to China and accept, just like they did when thy vetod the EU anti dumping duty on steel which cost jobs and plant closures. Those aren't short term losses, they will never come back. Farage and his one policy don't have the ability to sort any of this.
We have to have laws in place on the day we leave otherwise there will still be a legal right to anything that refers to the EU/ECJ you can't have nothing and gradually introduce them as you find time.
We need a transition period as 3 years on they still haven't managed to work there way through everything. Potentially they could by October but May is still pushing to get her agreement through before the euro election.
Whilst we have agreed the rights of EU citizens here the EU hasn't done the same, 27 countries which could have different rules, united when they want to be, divided when they don't.
And whilst this fiasco continues business can't plan and domestic policy is stagnating. There is no way the Tories will call an election so we'll be stuck until 2022 before there is an opportunity to get them out. We'll all be debating for years never going anywhere until we sort our political system.
One of the few things that might make them realise that they have to be prepared to leave without any deal is public rejection of May's deal and confirmation that there is a majority wanting to leave.
Guardian
Brexit Poll leave without deal
More than half of Conservative party members want Theresa May's Brexit deal to be rejected in favour of leaving the EU with no deal, according to a survey. ... Just 29% of Tory members would vote for May's deal, compared with 64% who would vote to leave without a deal, if there was a two-option referendum.
Leaflets are not law,
No matter what it doesn't alter the position that we are in where Parliament doesn't accept that result or May might eventually get her agreement past. Somehow they need to be stopped as her deal is worse than no deal but how can you stop it without the public turning it down?
There are very few ways that we can change things and as the country is equally divided on Brexit
it is unlikely any party could get a majority so inevitably a coalition would be the outcome of an election. One of the few ways is to repeat the result of the first vote making it absolutely clear that this is what is wanted.
Personally I want a say. Yes, we've had one but I have no problem with another if it stops a bad deal and moves us forward instead of sinking in political quicksand.
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