WillChair Three - Let's Build it!

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Re: WillChair Three - Let's Build it!

Postby Williamclark77 » 07 May 2019, 19:13

Scooterman wrote:How fast, 10mph+?


I can't recall what it was geared for there. 13 or 14mph I THINK. I had it geared for 16-17 at one point. Too fast. And the electronics got hot quickly when mowing my yard.

It takes a bit to get used to suspension that actually moves much. It feels a tad unstable. I wonder how this one will feel with about 4" of rear travel also.
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Re: WillChair Three - Let's Build it!

Postby rollingcowboy » 08 May 2019, 03:29

Will,I am glad you share the benefits of your being so stubborn with us.

Gives us all inspiration.
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Re: WillChair Three - Let's Build it!

Postby snaker » 08 May 2019, 03:58

Did you ever notice caster shake while running at 14mph on FLAT surfaces?
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Re: WillChair Three - Let's Build it!

Postby Williamclark77 » 08 May 2019, 04:54

rollingcowboy wrote:Will,I am glad you share the benefits of your being so stubborn with us.

Gives us all inspiration.


Thank you. I'd love to see others do builds!

snaker wrote:Did you ever notice caster shake while running at 14mph on FLAT surfaces?


Oh yeah, especially on my W1. Not often but happened a few times. Downright scary on pavement!
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Re: WillChair Three - Let's Build it!

Postby ex-Gooserider » 14 May 2019, 05:28

Have you ever tried a mist cooler? I've found them to be a really great thing, although they can be a bit tricky to get set up for the right level of spray...

The claim is that they are actually better at removing heat than flood coolant, as they operate on the idea that the mist spray evaporates as it hits the tool / workpiece and that phase change between liquid and vapor takes a lot of energy.... All I can say is that making cuts that would produce painfully hot chips done dry, I found the chips were COLD... Extra bonus is the air-blast that keeps the swarf out of the way so less recutting and (especially with aluminum) rebond issues... I also found my finished part was much cooler than expected when taking it out of the vice, just about room temperature....

The MSDS for the KoolMist concentrate I use says it's basically 'industrial soap' and doesn't give any special PPE requirements beyond the usual eye protection you should be using anyway... And a little concentrate goes a LONG way - I'd have to look it up to be sure, but I think it's on the order of 2 oz. of concentrate per quart of water, and I was using about an inch an hour out of the 2-liter soda bottle I have for a reservoir.... Seems fine on an open machine, there isn't much mist to spray, I've gotten worse showers squirting cutting oil on the workpiece

ex-Gooserider


Williamclark77 wrote:Thank you Goose. I'm very familiar with the super glue method. It actually works really well. It's about the best way I know to hold really thin aluminum.

I've never tried it slotting steel like this though. The super glue can't take much more than warm-to-the-touch before it fails. Slotting this steel gets hot. Smoking hot. Flood coolant is not an option with an open machine like mine. I ASSumed glue would fail and didn't even try it. I could be very wrong!

One upside to the wood is, if you look closely, you can see I cut well below the bottom of some of the parts into the wood. I did that to get to the good unused carbide instead of trashing the endmill when the bottom got dull. Same with tapping. I drilled well into the wood to make certain that the tap didn't bottom out. My machine can't rigid tap. I use floating holders. Where the tap stops can vary quite a bit from hole to hole.
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Re: WillChair Three - Let's Build it!

Postby Williamclark77 » 15 May 2019, 14:50

ex-Gooserider wrote:Have you ever tried a mist cooler? I've found them to be a really great thing, although they can be a bit tricky to get set up for the right level of spray...


I use a Fogbuster on my Tormach. I had a Chinese knockoff mist cooler on the little CNC I built. I mostly cut steel dry with only the air blast to remove the chips.

I've found dry usually works better than mist on higher carbon steels. It seems like the steel literally hardens as it cuts. A little reading around the internet confirms this. It's absolutely necessary in aluminum to keep from chip welding the endmill in place!

These low carbon A36 plates I'm using for this chair would most likely be better off using mist. I tried it dry and mist. The mist just seemed to make the chips stick in the slots more once it started getting deep. I need to add another jet to have it blow from more positions. One side just ain't enough.

My California Air Tools air compressor had trouble keeping up too. I just bought a Horribly Freight Special Wagner 21 gallon 175 psi compressor.

I also cut the air off to record those clips. It sounds so much louder than it actually is.

Post up some vids of stuff you do!
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Re: WillChair Three - Let's Build it!

Postby Williamclark77 » 15 May 2019, 15:26

Instead of using nuts I machined holes in the seat base and welded in inserts. Makes assembly much easier and quicker.

Short vid manually power tapping one in the lathe. I had 10 of these to do. Already welded in but no pics yert.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-pkmBxxp/0/df8b2154/1280/i-pkmBxxp-1280.mp4

These are what weld to the backrest cross bar and clamp onto the uprights. Started as a 2" thick chunk of plasma cutter scrap rescued from the scrap bin.

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Note the magnet under my armrest. I don't know how many times I used it to pick these dang things up.

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Op 1 complete

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The strap clamps that go on those were whittled out of this Pac Man piece of scrap aluminum I had left over from a gearbox housing I had to make.

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From this

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To this

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Coping the tubes that weld into them.

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Finished except for deburring. This is straight off the machine. Those tubes slip in the holes to accurately locate them. They'll be welded in place later.

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Test fit. Cope fit perfect. Now if I can just weld it pretty and strong!

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Almost all parts are made. I didn't photo most. Redundant. I'll get to assembling and welding as soon as I can.
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Re: WillChair Three - Let's Build it!

Postby Williamclark77 » 22 May 2019, 18:27

A good bit of progress over the past few days. It's on hold until a new TIG torch handle comes in. They're somewhat consumable and didn't realize I was out of them.

This is what the actuator connects to for the tilt. The seat base mounts on it. The two holes are for tuning the center of gravity. Combined with the three positions in the frame and there's six positions to choose from.

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Opposite side. Same thing just no actuator provision. Phosphorous bronze bushings press in. I decided against needle bearings. No need.

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Crossbar for the uprights getting drilled for the armrest mounts.

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Caster spacers. Simple stuff like these can eat up a lot of time.

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Spot drilling the footrest. Too big for my machine. Had to do part and rotate.

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Yes, that was fun to figure out how to hold. Doing the swiss cheese routine to 1) make it lighter, although it probably makes no functional difference, 2) So stuff falls out. Mine stay full of metal chips, and 3) it looks neat.

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Fitup to weld. Torch handle bit the dust right after this. It's still half done waiting.

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Part of the swingaway joystick mount.

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The joystick housing mounts on the bigger piece to the right. This setup is similar to the one I made for W2. This one will use disc springs (something like belleville washers) to set the tension. The W2 uses plastic discs I 3d printed. It works great but is finicky to adjust the tension just right. The square hole is for the tilt switch.

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This is how the crossbar mounts. The posts sticking out of the end are for the armrests. They swing up for transferring. Same design as W2.

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This adjusts the backrest angle/recline/whatever it's called. I can actually make pretty welds when I can get to it.

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I did the welds on the top of the seat base extra hot to melt them flush so no grinding would be needed. Quad hands + hand grinder = ER visit. I'm not man enough to bench grind it.

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It's beginning to look like a chair.

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I did source some more shock springs that fit. Barely. I still think they're as bit too stiff for the front. I'll just have to try them.
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Re: WillChair Three - Let's Build it!

Postby Scooterman » 22 May 2019, 19:04

Cor! You're certainly progressing well, and fast!!! :thumbup:

Here's my joystick mount, not as good as yours but okay for first attempt. Image
The idea was for it swivel, but it swivelled when i didn't want it to :oops: , so fixed it perm :thumbup:
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Re: WillChair Three - Let's Build it!

Postby Scooterman » 22 May 2019, 19:12

I noticed on one of your previous chairs (as does this one) you have very tight clearance for castor wheels in the forks. Why is that?

Williamclark77 wrote:Quad hands + hand grinder = ER visit.
Hand grinders are dangerous hanged
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Re: WillChair Three - Let's Build it!

Postby Williamclark77 » 23 May 2019, 00:23

Scooterman wrote:
Here's my joystick mount, not as good as yours but okay for first attempt.
The idea was for it swivel, but it swivelled when i didn't want it to :oops: , so fixed it perm :thumbup:


Looks good. I think I remember you doing a thread on it. Whatever works! My W2 one works like a motorcycle clutch basket. The plastic discs grip too well. There's only a few degrees of screw turn between locked up tight and floppy.

Scooterman wrote:I noticed on one of your previous chairs (as does this one) you have very tight clearance for castor wheels in the forks. Why is that?


I designed them around some cheap Chinese tires. The Kendas I eventually used were an inch taller and 1/2 an inch narrower. Exact same size on the sidewall. They didn't rub though and weren't worth remaking the forks. I liked the look of them fitting that close and kept this one roughly the same. The forks are narrower and have about 1/8 inch more clearance. It scrapes the mud off too!
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Re: WillChair Three - Let's Build it!

Postby daunjan » 26 May 2019, 05:12

You chair looks so much lighter than conventional chairs, with your wheels go anywhere.
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Re: WillChair Three - Let's Build it!

Postby ex-Gooserider » 28 May 2019, 02:25

Scooterman wrote:
Williamclark77 wrote:Quad hands + hand grinder = ER visit.
Hand grinders are dangerous hanged


But they are so good at grinding hands.... :o hanged :lol:

I have a 9" angle grinder that I purchased before I got hurt and have found that I need to be VERY careful w/ my setup when using it, as it has enough 'torque reaction' that it wants to move me instead of me moving it... But a 4" is still not a big deal, just a lot slower....

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Re: WillChair Three - Let's Build it!

Postby Williamclark77 » 28 May 2019, 20:35

daunjan wrote:You chair looks so much lighter than conventional chairs, with your wheels go anywhere.


My W2 is 264 Freedom pounds. About 120 kilos. It goes pretty well. I've put it and my W1 through some stuff. There's plenty of videos here of W1 https://www.willsjunk.com/WillChair6. They're old.

ex-Gooserider wrote:I have a 9" angle grinder....

ex-Gooserider


You are far braver than me! I tried to use a 4.5" angle grinder one time since becoming a gimp. I finally got it turned on then couldn't handle it. Worse, I couldn't turn it off nor get it out of my clinched fists, which were clonis shaking. Never again. Some lessons don’t need to be taught twice. I use a dremel pretty regularly. It's still sketchy.

I just took my dad to the ER yesterday after he had a table saw fail. I only live about ten minutes away. They saved his thumb but it looked like a hotdog bun. I would post a pic but it's pretty nasty.
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Re: WillChair Three - Let's Build it!

Postby shirley_hkg » 29 May 2019, 00:44

O M G !

Lucky his thumb is saved . :worship
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Re: WillChair Three - Let's Build it!

Postby shirley_hkg » 29 May 2019, 01:46

God bless .
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Re: WillChair Three - Let's Build it!

Postby wheelie junkie » 29 May 2019, 11:45

Williamclark77 wrote:
Scooterman wrote:How fast, 10mph+?


It takes a bit to get used to suspension that actually moves much. It feels a tad unstable. I wonder how this one will feel with about 4" of rear travel also.


Had you considered using mountain bike suspension units with platform valving? They are designed to sit at a certain amount of sag and prevent bobbing when the rider pedals, hit rocks and suspension reacts as expected. I'd think that on smooth ground they would be very stable and also shouldn't rock back and forth as you accelerate and decelerate.
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Re: WillChair Three - Let's Build it!

Postby Scooterman » 29 May 2019, 17:56

I'm always terrified of dropping angle grinder in my lap :shock:
So what I do now whenever possible, is clamp the grinder in my trusty (abused) black and decker workmate. And bring metal to mohammed or moutain or whatever czy . Plus for extra safety wind grind power cable round workmate so if it drops out of jaws it dangles on cable and doesn't grind me goolies like texas chainsaw massacre. :ambulance
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Re: WillChair Three - Let's Build it!

Postby ex-Gooserider » 04 Jun 2019, 05:59

ex-Gooserider wrote:I have a 9" angle grinder....

ex-Gooserider


You are far braver than me! I tried to use a 4.5" angle grinder one time since becoming a gimp. I finally got it turned on then couldn't handle it. Worse, I couldn't turn it off nor get it out of my clinched fists, which were clonis shaking. Never again. Some lessons don’t need to be taught twice. I use a dremel pretty regularly. It's still sketchy.

I just took my dad to the ER yesterday after he had a table saw fail. I only live about ten minutes away. They saved his thumb but it looked like a hotdog bun. I would post a pic but it's pretty nasty.[/quote]

Difference between quad and para.... I have normal hand / arm / upper body function down to about the bottom of my rib cage so no problem with a light weight / smallish tool like a 4.5" grinder... The problems start when the tools start getting big and heavy enough, or have enough torque, that the inability to work the gut muscles enough to stay stable gets to be an issue....

Sorry to hear about your dad, hope he heals well...

Here at the Asylum, we have two 5hp SawStop table saws which is a cool technology that is supposed to keep folks from chopping up body parts.... I know we set them off pretty regularly (about US$200 damage a shot for the new cartridge and replacing the blade) but it's hard to tell how many times it has actually been an injury preventing fire vs. user error or false trips...

Downside is that you can't use a SawStop with anything but dry clean wood.... Metal or things like metal coated plastic (we had a trip from someone trying to cut plastic mirror material) will set it off, wet wood will sometimes trip it, and we even had a trip once because someone was cutting a piece that had some laser-cutter etching on it - the carbon burn residue was low enough resistance....

I have used my home table saw with a non-ferrous metal blade to rough cut aluminum, but that can't be done w/ a SawStop...

I actually have somewhat mixed feelings about the SawStop technology itself. It is great that it can prevent injuries when a fail puts you into the blade, but it seems to me that people think it makes the saw 'safe' and they aren't sufficiently 'scared' to be as careful as they should be regardless, after all the tech does NOTHING to prevent a kickback, which can cause far worse injuries.... (Not to mention that one should NEVER count on a safety device to prevent injuries...)

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Re: WillChair Three - Let's Build it!

Postby Williamclark77 » 04 Jun 2019, 16:04

wheelie junkie wrote:Had you considered using mountain bike suspension units with platform valving? They are designed to sit at a certain amount of sag and prevent bobbing when the rider pedals, hit rocks and suspension reacts as expected. I'd think that on smooth ground they would be very stable and also shouldn't rock back and forth as you accelerate and decelerate.


I'm honestly not all that educated on the most modern bike suspension technology. I don't ride bikes much :lol:

I researched shocks a fair amount and most were simply too big physically to fit. I'll be happy to try some that are roughly the same dimensions as these DNM shocks if you have some recommendations. I can't afford four $200 each shocks either.

I THINK these will do good once the proper rate springs are sourced. Tests for the future!

They salvaged his thumb without surgery. The bones weren't badly broken. It could've been much worse. He should make a full recovery in time.
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Re: WillChair Three - Let's Build it!

Postby rlnguy » 04 Jun 2019, 17:26

ex-goose,
The manual for my SawStop saw spells out how to use it to cut metal, or wet wood.
I don't recall the exact steps, when powering it on, but the safety feature can be bypassed for cutting certain materials.
The process must be repeated, if the saw is turned off between cuts.
I still prefer to use some other tool to cut metal, though.
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Re: WillChair Three - Let's Build it!

Postby Williamclark77 » 07 Jun 2019, 16:40

Armrests. They were made similarly to the ones I made a few months ago and posted.

Video of machining them. This is a different video than I posted before. The youtube embed thing doesn't want to work, so a link instead.

https://youtu.be/UeVm-fg10sk

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Bottom done and ready to flip.

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I made this ghetto fixture to hold them for machining the top. I only had to do three (one more for W2 and two for W3). So, no need to make something super durable or elaborate. Those are just the long "T nuts" I made to hold the armrests on and a piece of scrap wood.

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Note the stray dog in the background that now has a food bowl and bed in my shop.

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This is after one. After doing all three it was a horrendous mess. Cue the child. One of the few upsides to having a kid is putting her on cleaning duty. :D

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The feetrest mount on this center bar on a sleeve (haven't made it yet). I didn't take any more pictures. This lets the feet raise/lower. The actuator connects to the two tabs on the end.

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Part of the telescoping rods that allow the armrests to pivot up. They started as rusty rods. They're complete. Just realized I forgot to take pictures.

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As I was RETRACTING the drill it almost chipwelded inside the tube. She was glowing orange. Surprised me that the drill actually came out. I kept it spinning with backwards pressure. If it had cooled first it would probably still be in there.

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Lots more progress has been made. I'll get around to photoing and sharing eventually.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Off topic.

This little black rat snake was sunning in the road near some houses. Stopped and grabbed it before it got ran over or killed by stupid people that think they're heroes for killing any snake. Yes, I'll park sideways in the road and block traffic to rescue a critter. We do it all the time. Turned it loose in my barn. I don't mind the snakes. Rats and squirrels destroy stuff.

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We do this regularly. I don't take photos often because stupid people freak out.
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Re: WillChair Three - Let's Build it!

Postby ex-Gooserider » 11 Jun 2019, 02:01

rlnguy wrote:ex-goose,
The manual for my SawStop saw spells out how to use it to cut metal, or wet wood.
I don't recall the exact steps, when powering it on, but the safety feature can be bypassed for cutting certain materials.
The process must be repeated, if the saw is turned off between cuts.
I still prefer to use some other tool to cut metal, though.


I agree, there is a key switch on our saws to turn the safety stuff off, but they warn you in the fine print that if you don't do a really complete job of cleaning after, you run the risk of false trips when you turn the safety back on....

Our shop rules totally prohibit ANY sort of metal work in the wood shop due to concerns about the debris causing problems for the other shop users which makes the point somewhat less relevant... The policy was also made that it was better / safer to simply restrict saw use to 'approved' materials than it would be to try having some folks able to bypass it and keeping that appropriately controlled.... One of the downsides of a shared shop....

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Re: WillChair Three - Let's Build it!

Postby hobie1dog » 12 Jun 2019, 05:37

I was enjoying the pictures until you posted a picture of that venom spitting king cobra :lol:

Thanks for sharing all the pictures with us.
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Re: WillChair Three - Let's Build it!

Postby Williamclark77 » 14 Jun 2019, 14:51

hobie1dog wrote:I was enjoying the pictures until you posted a picture of that venom spitting king cobra :lol:

Thanks for sharing all the pictures with us.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Tilt actuator mount

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The feetrest still need finishing. All sharp edges will be removed.

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Gettin there

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Re: WillChair Three - Let's Build it!

Postby Burgerman » 15 Jun 2019, 02:33

Keep going! :thumbup:
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Re: WillChair Three - Let's Build it!

Postby Williamclark77 » 17 Jun 2019, 15:06

The main mechanical build portion is pretty much done. I'm trying to work on the hard (hard for me anyway) part of figuring out how to make the Roboteq output integer values for speed, odometer, and battery info to send to an Arduino Uno to show up on the touchscreen. I can figure out the math. The actual syntax to get it to work though, not easy for me. I'll have to dig through Lenny's script for inspiration. He's a genius at this stuff. I'm more :shock: the longer I stare at it.
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Re: WillChair Three - Let's Build it!

Postby LROBBINS » 17 Jun 2019, 17:35

Will,

I've never sent anything from Roboteq to Arduino except by CAN. Sending info by serial will require an adapter to go from the RS232 output of the Roboteq to the TxRx input of the Uno and that seems to me almost the same level of complexity as adding a CAN board to each of them without the safety features of CAN.

BTW, did you do any further testing on the last version of the analog only script? Things were left hanging last I heard from you.

Ciao,
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Re: WillChair Three - Let's Build it!

Postby Scooterman » 17 Jun 2019, 17:40

You guys are so clever, it amazes me how much cleverness there is in WD.com forums. :worship
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Re: WillChair Three - Let's Build it!

Postby Williamclark77 » 17 Jun 2019, 19:16

Lenny,

The last script I tested was when we were corresponding by email. I have not downloaded an updated version and tested since then. I honestly haven't thought to check and see if you had uploaded another revision. When I have the opportunity again I will. I don't know when that will be.

I also haven't had a chance to really look into the logistics of outputting information from the Roboteq. It seems strange that they'd incorporate so much in-depth information gathering capabilities into these controllers but make it so difficult/complicated to output. A pair of pwm analog voltage outputs from 0 to 5v or even ppm would make it much simple(er) and require no extra hardware from the user.

Scooterman wrote:You guys are so clever, it amazes me how much cleverness there is in WD.com forums. :worship


Nah, it's moreso sad that we have to be since there's nothing suitable out there.
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