Need Input on Vehicle Transfer Seat

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Need Input on Vehicle Transfer Seat

Postby flagman1776 » 08 Aug 2019, 22:11

I need to be educated on vehicle transfer seats. Still uncertain if I'll be able to resume driving or need to be driven. I'm certainly drive from chair yet.
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Re: Need Input on Vehicle Transfer Seat

Postby Burgerman » 09 Aug 2019, 01:15

Massive struggle, and then you gotta dissasemble the chair, and drag it over your lap somehow in bits to scratch all the dashboard etc. I mean put in the passenger seat. I have done it. And I wont be doing it again. A plainly rediculous hard way to go on. My opinion. So you end up not using it. Too hard. And useless with a powerchair :fencing

This is the way forwards.
http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/gopro/ramp.mp4

Then move the stupid dog...
Then drive to the steering wheel.
Then turn key/go.

http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/gopro/town.mp4


This is what I mean when I say a joined up plan for the future/worst case. ANYONE can drive the van, its easy to enter in a chair, and to drive from a chair. If thats not possible in future your carer will drive. Theres a seat in the garage, locks in place like the wheelchair. Or you are throwing good money away that could have gone towards a more suitable future solution, transfer seat/car etc. Thats a great way to be poorer. Somewhere to land, suitable chair/van, wide doors, flat WC freindly area, open adapted kitchen, wet room, etc etc. So it all works together on one floor with a wheelchair. Again my opinion. But I have to say it. Plan properly and pay ONCE. If you are going to end up there anyway, better to start as you expect to end up, worst case WHILE YOU CAN. Took me 15 years to finally get my plan done! ($$$) Started my plan 22 years back. Now life is organised, low maintainance, cheap to live, and future proofed as far as possible while I was capable. One thing remains. Air con for my bedroom. I suffer if stuck on bed in summer. And I dont want to.

Of course this is my life, not yours. But thats my advice. I remember we had this conversation before! So ignore me!
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Re: Need Input on Vehicle Transfer Seat

Postby flagman1776 » 09 Aug 2019, 03:39

BM I just watched a video exactly as you describe with a manual chair, disassembled an i knew immediately THAT system is a fail. A manual chair is a fail for me without a carer to push. With limited function on one hand. I don't think i can drive with one hand IF my better right leg doesn't come back. It's rare to have MS excaserbations 17 years into Secondary Progressive. There's no data on it.

I've seen some videos that Transfer seat turns inward, allowing an inside transfer but unless I have head room to stand nearly straight, I have doubts if I could transfer inside.
A passenger side outside transfer seat might work, if I have a carer / driver but the videos I wonder how they don't destroy the patient's knees on the door.
At this point I can stand for 60 seconds, unsupported. I need support to move at all. With support I have maybe 5 minutes on my feet every 2 hours... maybe.
i know nothing of transfer seats... I need to get educated.
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Re: Need Input on Vehicle Transfer Seat

Postby flagman1776 » 09 Aug 2019, 20:56

Everything I said in my last post still stands. I'm going to dedicate a chunk of time to exploring this on Youtube. It's not going to be quick. Still Pictures are of very limited usefulness. I need to see the transfers. I need to see the patient's legs during swing.
I don't do a level 'seat to seat' transfer. I have to stand up, move, sit down.
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Re: Need Input on Vehicle Transfer Seat

Postby Burgerman » 10 Aug 2019, 07:43

I'm going to dedicate a chunk of time to exploring this on Youtube.

:lol:
Experts then...
And smooth marketing vids using ABs that have everything idealised... $$$ driven.

I suggest you trial this, and remember that they will have a perfect car with the widest door/door opening angle/out of way dashboard etc, and see how hard it really is. And consider how hard it will get as you deteriorate over time and in winter on a freezing windy/wet day. Esp where ground is uneven. Dragging filthy wheels and wet cold manual chairs across you in the driving position. I think that at best those swiveling seat things are a heath robinson aproach. That will always be an awquard and difficult to achieve solution to a problem that wouldnt exist in drive from wheelchair vehicle. Try it, it looks easier than it is.

A small drive from or passenger vehicle even.

Drive in, go either side at front, small fiat vans. (read pertty cheap)
http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/images- ... miller.jpg
http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/images- ... -close.jpg
http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/images- ... -front.jpg

VW van, lowered floor, not cheap. Rear entry. (not that!)
http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/images- ... vw-lwb.jpg

Same thing, full lowered floor at front half only, rear luggage ad rear seat as normal. You sit in middle or front, or drive. Side entry with lift instead of ramp (better but $$$)
http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/images- ... vw-swb.jpg

Very small cheap kia car. You put the wheelchair or driver seat either side.
http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/images- ... -close.jpg
http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/images- ... lchair.jpg

If you do not want to drive at all, and dont care about sitting in the front, theres dozens of vehicles that sit you in the rear, but they are not lowered floor, or are only lowered in the rear part, so much cheaper. Such as these.
http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/images- ... t-only.jpg
And 101 other types.

And if you prefer theres the usual US style minivans with lowered floor as I use. But they use a ramp insted of lift that is cheaper but needs more space next to the vehicle.
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Re: Need Input on Vehicle Transfer Seat

Postby flagman1776 » 10 Aug 2019, 17:34

I WANT to keep driving. It's uncertain that I will BE ABLE to resume driving. If I am unable to resume driving, I'll still need transporting to places.

BM, than you for these links. They greatly advanced my transportation education. My wife scouted the Kia on her own the just other day. We have owned Chrysler / Dodge minivans in the past when the kids were small... they are all over the place here in the USA. The are used mobility vans too... my out-laws buy / sell used cars n Florida and state it's a buyers market there. But a bargain is only a bargain if you want what they are selling.

Yes, I agree having an AB demo HC equipment is deceptive. The demo ought to be by someone whose disability matches the intended HC user... and an adult, not a tiny girl. As I indicated, I wasn't impressed by a video showing an empty seat swung in / out of a vehicle. Which is why I'm going to utilize ever resource before I invest my limited physical energy looking at stuff that's a fail right out of the gate.
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Re: Need Input on Vehicle Transfer Seat

Postby Irving » 10 Aug 2019, 18:03

When we were in Vancouver we hired a Dodge Caravan with side entry and wheelchair up front as passenger. While researching this I also looked at the Chrysler Grand Voyager (similar to BMs). Slightly smaller there is the Kia Carnival, with either rear or side entry, which is a larger version of the Kia Sedona I have here in the UK (which is also larger than the Kias BM showed) and the similar sized Honda Odyssey (manufactured in and unique to N America). There are a lot more options in the US for "passenger up front" and/or "drive from" than we have in Europe and the second hand/used market has good availability.
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Re: Need Input on Vehicle Transfer Seat

Postby Mr.Math » 10 Aug 2019, 19:47

flagman,

You might also look at the Ford Explorer MXV from BraunAbility. I have no stock or allegiance to it other than I have one for my wife (who rides shotgun in a power chair, but doesn't drive) and we've been very pleased with it. Not cheap, however. :( They have been out for a few years now, so there may be some showing up on the used market. I know they are popular with veterans who don't want a minivan (VA has great benefits for mobility vehicles, from what I hear, so vets are able to get them and replace them as needed...of course the soldiers paid a heavy price elsewhere).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ze0qYYmoMGU
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Re: Need Input on Vehicle Transfer Seat

Postby flagman1776 » 10 Aug 2019, 22:00

THX. Good info.
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Re: Need Input on Vehicle Transfer Seat

Postby Burgerman » 10 Aug 2019, 22:15

I missed a pic. Side ramp, either passenger or driver, in the front. Or in the centre. And underfloor ramp, fully lowered all the way through for normal powerchairs. These are old pics, theres newer models now.

This is the only practical one thats big enough to manoever or turn, and to get in without driving through all your luggage etc...

http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/images- ... b-side.jpg

Sort of the UKs version of the minivan, but with a more reliable shorter lift insted.
THIS ONE has a 6 way adjustable turning seat. So you would get in then transfer to driving seat. But its also used as drive from wheelchair. Which is way easier.
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Re: Need Input on Vehicle Transfer Seat

Postby stevelawiw » 11 Aug 2019, 09:57

When it comes to parking, isn't a side entrance a massive PITA? In my experience not being able to park in a standard parking bay because you need room to get the side door wide open limits when you can use the vehicle, eg. Supermarkets, Cinema, town parking. I've never used a vehicle with a side lift, my only side entry disabled driving is from when I did the lifting a manual chair thing over me and putting it in the back seat, you know, before the complete tear of a muscle in my only working shoulder put paid to that :thumbdown:
But since getting my automatic rear entry ramp Caddy, parking has not been a problem as long as theres a space anywhere in the car park I'm sorted. I don't have to find a 'special' slot with lots of room which is never free when a car park is remotely busy in my experience
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Re: Need Input on Vehicle Transfer Seat

Postby LROBBINS » 11 Aug 2019, 11:52

Side load vs. rear load depends a lot on where you live. When we lived in the U.S., and when we've visited the U.S., side load Chrysler vans worked well. Extra-wide WC van parking spots are common in parking lots, and most on-street parking is parallel. In Italy, HC spaces are not near wide enough for a side load, almost all parking lots have right angle or near right angle spots, but on-street parking sometimes means having to load and unload with the car at last partly in the street; those spots were also short for the Chryslers in any case. We brought a Grand Voyager with us, then later bought a kneeling Kangoo and it was a lot easier to use; the Chrysler became our backup and long trip car. When the Voyager reached eol at 17+ years and > 200k miles, we replaced it with a Caddy Maxi w/ dropped floor + ramp and the Kangoo became backup. Only the Grand Voyager could have been drive-from, but it was never used that way as Rachi can't drive.
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Re: Need Input on Vehicle Transfer Seat

Postby Irving » 11 Aug 2019, 12:18

In the UK side entry is a problem, well certainly in major cities, as most locations and house drives aren't wide enough. The downside of rear entry is the lack of seats and the fact you have to unload everybody and everything to get out. Though mostly it's just me and driver and we have a trolley for shopping etc which makes it easier to load/unload.
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Re: Need Input on Vehicle Transfer Seat

Postby stevelawiw » 11 Aug 2019, 13:31

Side load vs. rear load depends a lot on where you live.

I bow to your superior knowledge, having only moved a total of about two miles in my life :lol:
In the UK side entry is a problem, well certainly in major cities, as most locations and house drives aren't wide enough. The downside of rear entry is the lack of seats and the fact you have to unload everybody and everything to get out.

Too true. Plus the Councils love of speed bumps which makes some roads a no go zone for me :cussing
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Re: Need Input on Vehicle Transfer Seat

Postby Burgerman » 11 Aug 2019, 17:22

But the biggest issue is that a rear loading ramp, means you must drive over the groceries, or your model planes, or the bottles of BBQ gas you just collected. So for me, that makes them a bit silly.

Also I never went anywhere yet where side ramp or lift stopped my parking. I just take 2 spaces in a car park, or park end of row. And its easier when parking on the roadside, as nobody can park behind and lock you out of your vehicle. And you land on the footpath or road.
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Re: Need Input on Vehicle Transfer Seat

Postby flagman1776 » 11 Aug 2019, 21:11

I am learning from so many good comments. I am used to having to hunt for a suitable parking space. Even using my fold up TravelScoot I've been parked out in HC spaces. My Dodge Avenger has big doors... good for getting my legs out. I must get driver's door open to get in / out, I must get passenger's rear door open to get Scoot out.
I can see rear access would be better for parking lots. Where to put groceries is valid.
There are only certain HC spaces in lots... where one could deploy a side ramp. It seems to me that the designed ramp spaces are big enough to open for the ramp but not to drive into it... if the next guy parks up properly. Sadly I see way too many many who can't park between the lines.

Question: Can you deploy a side ramp onto a raised curb / sidewalk?
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Re: Need Input on Vehicle Transfer Seat

Postby Irving » 11 Aug 2019, 21:52

flagman1776 wrote:Question: Can you deploy a side ramp onto a raised curb / sidewalk?

Certainly on the Dodge we hired you could reach the kerb from a metre away, but on smaller vehicles that don't have the width it might not be possible from that far away also height can be a problem.
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Re: Need Input on Vehicle Transfer Seat

Postby Burgerman » 11 Aug 2019, 22:01

If its not too high. Depends exactly how its been configures when it was installed. Some dont like it.

A Lift as fitted to many side entry vehicles here doesent much care what you lower it onto. Its also a few inches shorter. So less space needed. But they cost about 5k and are heavy.

This is an old vid. The newer versions of this van are superb. If a little costly...
But you keep the rear seat and the luggage compartment as stock. And the build quality and paint etc is really good, if a little heavy compared to the typical minivan. It will outlive you.


youtu.be/9YuHXlrlGNQ
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Re: Need Input on Vehicle Transfer Seat

Postby Irving » 11 Aug 2019, 23:21

The VW Caravelle is typical VW build quality. My aunt & uncle had one where the centre seats came out and down on an arm (both sides) so they'd transfer to the seat and get lifted back in and the (manual) chairs were folded up in the back.

I've often mused on the idea of having the wheelchair seat picked up off the mobile chassis by a similar arm and then the chassis autonomously stores itself in the back...
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Re: Need Input on Vehicle Transfer Seat

Postby Burgerman » 12 Aug 2019, 22:36

If you are looking at these vans be aware that many like this newest model T6 version is NOT lowered floor. So this is cheaper. And requires a special low powerchair with small battery. So to me its not adequate. So beware! The Caravelle T6 with lowered floor/side lift is the one to go for...

It does show the build quality, and the ramp quality though.


youtu.be/j0OTq6mdjag


youtu.be/pEF0w6evPWQ
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Re: Need Input on Vehicle Transfer Seat

Postby flagman1776 » 12 Aug 2019, 23:32

Good to know. THX!
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Re: Need Input on Vehicle Transfer Seat

Postby flagman1776 » 13 Aug 2019, 15:46

I am watching many YouTube videos of outside transfer seats. At present, this comes closest to my needs. As we know, with MS my needs are a moving target. Even if we try to anticipate future needs we may still guess wrong. I'm still hopeful of more recovery from my recent excaserbation.
Anyrate, a present issue is getting my feet and legs out of the vehicle, both my Dodge Avenger and wife's Hyundai Accent. My Avenger has slightly bigger doors. She refuses to drive my car. With all the transfer seats, foot and leg clearance to the front of the door opening and door itself is an issue. It came to me that maybe modifying the door opening control arm might give better clearances! I don't think it can be eliminated without risking door damage.

Thoughts?
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Re: Need Input on Vehicle Transfer Seat

Postby Burgerman » 13 Aug 2019, 16:41

Just take it off. (door).
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Re: Need Input on Vehicle Transfer Seat

Postby Irving » 13 Aug 2019, 16:55

Burgerman wrote:Just take it off. (door).

Seen a few mods where they'd done just that! (can't find pics at mo)

One where the front door had been modded to pull out then slide forward over wing to give completely free opening into passenger footwell. The slides were inside roof and cill at rear end of door.

There was another where they'd created a psuedo-gull wing by hinging door at top then again in middle so it folded up out of way

And a third on a big pick up truck where the door extended out horizontally on a couple of beams at roof level, might have been one under cill forward of the lift.
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Re: Need Input on Vehicle Transfer Seat

Postby Burgerman » 13 Aug 2019, 17:12

But the reality is that those seats are not really an everyday solution. Too many issues. So you waste money, dont go out because its too much like hard work. Which is why I keep saying you should be looking for more serious solution. But nobody listens to me (cant say I am surprised!) :D

Throwing good money after bad springs to mind.
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Re: Need Input on Vehicle Transfer Seat

Postby Irving » 13 Aug 2019, 17:27

Burgerman wrote:But the reality is that those seats are not really an everyday solution. Too many issues. So you waste money, dont go out because its too much like hard work. Which is why I keep saying you should be looking for more serious solution. But nobody listens to me (cant say I am surprised!) :D

Throwing good money after bad springs to mind.

Agreed, my friend who has MS spent 6k on a transfer seat fitted in a motability vehicle. I told her not to, but to go for a WAV straight off. So now, less than a year later, she needs a WAV which motability will provide but they won't reimburse or remove the seat and she'll have to pay to get it swapped back with the original so she can flog it on ebay (if she's lucky). Waste of at least 4 - 5k.

And a third on a big pick up truck where the door extended out horizontally on a couple of beams at roof level, might have been one under cill forward of the lift.

That last example from below included a powerchair lift - was a true drive-from custom conversion.
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Re: Need Input on Vehicle Transfer Seat

Postby flagman1776 » 13 Aug 2019, 18:14

No, I am listening and looking. Carefully weighing all options. Trying to learn. Frankly, I'm hoping to use my existing car for a bit more. A lot depends if my better right leg improves enough to drive again. I wasn't able to drive for 12 months... 2001-2. I have driven 2X since the latest excaserbation started but toward the end my leg got tired & hard to move from gas to brake. With only one adequately functional hand/arm I doubt I can use hand controls. For that matter, I can't use a normal manual WC at all. I'm not in a WC currently. I'm still walkering in the house.

I don't know what a WAV is.
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Re: Need Input on Vehicle Transfer Seat

Postby Irving » 13 Aug 2019, 18:20

flagman1776 wrote:
I don't know what a WAV is.

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Re: Need Input on Vehicle Transfer Seat

Postby flagman1776 » 13 Aug 2019, 19:06

THX!
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Re: Need Input on Vehicle Transfer Seat

Postby flagman1776 » 14 Aug 2019, 19:42

I am learning so much... still researching. I'm now convinced that manual transfer aids will be useful as long as I can stand but the costly power transfer seats are not a long term solution.
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