The new R-NET PM2 140A controller

[Andrey]

Hey everyone,

Just came across the PDF for the new R-net controller on their website (the link).

The highlights seem to be:

• A power bump to 140A.
• Native support for lithium batteries and BMS connectivity.
• An integrated Tilt Sensor.
• App connectivity via Wi-Fi/Bluetooth, with some cloud integration (whatever that means).

Let's see if this is finally enough to convince the major wheelchair manufacturers to join us in the 21st century and make lithium a standard option.

[Burgerman]

It controls nothing with battery. It just lets a BMS in your own battery connect to the system so that you basically have a battery gauge.In some future integration. That if you fitted a big enough battery for the job to begin with wouldnt be required...
They are thinking about those 70Ah drop in lead brick replacements or a manufacturers built one with a BMS like the 100Ah Bounder one.
If you fit 244Ah, thats more than anyone can ever use in a day. 100 miles or so. 6X as much as lead batteries... And that currently costs less that 1 set So all a bit pointless really.

As for the cloud stuff, thats so that they can spy on you. It logs EVERYTHING and seds it to the "cloud"... A spy.
And all OEM programming stuff needs to be done by the manufacturer. So that the dealers or the NHS dont get too confused.
Meaning you will be locked out like all the other manufacturers already did.

The only good thing is the bump by 20A peak. That will allow an 8mph chair to have nearly as much torque and control as a 6mph one has (all else equal).

Basically it has a bms data connector. When they figure out what to do with this, at some point in the future it will get used! Meanwhile it data logs everything and sends that to the "cloud" (meaning someone elses computer) so that can void your warranty of give you some nonsense about battery charging that they dont really understand. And you cant program it... I would only ever consider this IF it was possible for me to get a OEM level programming tool for. Before buying any chair with it.

Just my thoughts! Theres another thread with this module somewhere too.

[sergey0]

Meanwhile it data logs everything and sends that to the "cloud" (meaning someone elses computer) so that can void your warranty of give you some nonsense about battery charging that they dont really understand. And you cant program it... I would only ever consider this IF it was possible for me to get a OEM level programming tool for. Before buying any chair with it.

I 100% agree with you — this “cloud connection” is designed solely to monitor any changes made to the wheelchair’s settings. We’re getting closer and closer to SkyNet (like in the Terminator movie).

[Burgerman]

I have absolutely nothing that uses "cloud" anything at all.

All cloud means is that your files are on someone elses computer. If embedded software such as the R-net stuff, wants to send data to some cloud to allow YOU to access "useful" data, then thats just the worm on the hook. The real motive is to have a mountain of other info about the chair or you.

I have zero google, microsoft, facetube or any other online accounts apart from my bank, my own site, ebay and amazon. That includes phones, PCs, and everything else.

[emilevirus]

Is it still 100A or bumped to i.e 120A?
I hope the cloud feature is optional and we still have OEM access.

[sergey0]

I hope the cloud feature is optional and we still have OEM access.

I heard from a wheelchair specialist in Germany that OEM configuration will only be carried out by the manufacturer’s engineers.

[Burgerman]

Of course. Thats probably the main reason for the changes. To keep US out.

Thats why I started stocking up on on full new, or as new, R-Net 120A power modules, chairs, high end joysticks, seating modules and bus cables about 4 or 5 years ago. Because I could see this day coming.

I have enough chairs, and spare full systems to see me out twice over. And a OEM programmer to configure all of them.

[emilevirus]

Such a shame. I'd have upgraded my Magic Extreme to 140A. It'd have given me a nice boost.
But I wonder why not more amps. It's not a lot. The ESC in my RC car is 150A and like 900A peak.

[Burgerman]

Beats me. I see the same. Helis are 6 to 10S and 150 to 200A in a rapid climbout.
Tiny electric brushless motors on my planes the size of an egg take 100 or so at max throttle. Those speed controllers are tiny.

But. I have blown up a few brussless controllers and batteries and disintegrated some motors.. Quite spectacular at times!

We dont really want that on something we sit on.

What we need isnt more amps, because that just requires ever heavier cables, ever lower motor inpedances, and the losses increase. We need to do as the EV world always do. Volt up, gear down. You will big in efficiency.

I imagine that the internals in the new PM will be the same old. But software limits raised. Its only 20A... You will get that for a few seconds at best. As now. Then it rollss back progressively to anything from 50 to 80A. It does that over a specific time period, and at specific temperatures. And if the motors are stalled etc. To save everything from doing wat my hobby stuff does...

[martin007]

The problem I see is that soon they will only manufacture R-NET modules with a spy included.

[Burgerman]

Yes.
Thats exctly why I have 3 as new chairs, and all high end R-Net. One batterered one, and 4 complete sets inc new joysticks, as new power modules, seating modules etc and bus cables and all the rest on my shelf!


Then if I need parts I have the, If I need a chair I will swap the new spyware for one off my shelf...

[sergey0]

We need to do as the EV world always do. Volt up, gear down. You will big in efficiency.

They don’t use voltage higher than 24 V in power wheelchairs for safety reasons — to avoid exposing the user to dangerous voltage. There are laws and technical regulations that limit the use of higher voltage.
⚠ Why 24 V is a “common” practical limit (though not necessarily a strict law)
Safety margin: Lower voltages reduce risk of electric shock, arcing, insulation breakdown, etc.
Battery chemistry / component design: Many components (motors, controllers, connectors) are easier, cheaper, and safer to design at lower voltages for small-scale systems.
Legacy / industry norms: Many mobility devices historically used 12 V, 24 V, or 36 V systems. As a result, industry tooling, connectors, parts, and safety practices often center around those voltages.
Certification & regulatory comfort: Using a voltage range that is well understood and already tested under medical device and electrical safety standards reduces regulatory risk.

[Burgerman]

Which really means, they do it how they are acustomed to doing it because its "established" and they are used to it so its easy.

[martin007]

If I need a chair I will swap the new spyware for one off my shelf...

Can you do that?

[Burgerman]

Of course. Its super simple. Take about 1 hour. Only because I then need to program it.

[Burgerman]

You literally swap 3 things

These three things...


This is a FULL rehab chair system. Everything. For a chair with up to 6 seating actuators, and any DC motors/brakes.

Shows the:
JOYSTICK and its cable...
120A POWER MODULE
SEATING ACTUATOR for 6 seating functions and lights. And a loom.
(The 4th thing is the R-Net programmer dongle.)

Theres £125 joystick (new)
£45 power module (as new)
£45 seating module (as new)

OEM Programmer was £350 delivered many years back!

I have 5 power modules, 4 seating actuators, 3 CJSM2 joysticks, 2 CJSM1 joytics, 2 LED joysticks... And a box of cables! All bought for silly low prices.

[Gnomatic]

I'd venture programmers on the updated system will be harder to get hold of for users, let alone software access.

[Burgerman]

It will not likely be possible. The main reason for this change is not to benefit us. It is because they think end users cant do it and are dangerous (many are) and their own techs and wheelchair services or dealers are completely incapable too, so they will just want to send nice (but crap) "safe" settings presets from the manufacturer direct to the chair wirelessely/internet. You are effectively locked out.

That way "dangerous" people like us are kept out of the loop. Along with those of us that have forgotten more than 99% of the techs ever know. And the exact ones that are in the best position to KNOW what they want/need.
There will still be a "dealer" method. That cant change much, that cant remove walls, etc. Which is useless to me. But OEM acesss will be what it says. Original Equipment Manufacturer. Configured and set up by the manufacturer in a way that they see as "safe". That is inside of their regulatory rules.

Run away...

Buy a spare high end R-Net chair, and a few R-Net spares. A programmer. As I have. Rebuild it and grease everything and replace bearings and bolts etc with stainless, fit huge lithium batteries, give it an all over light coat of protective oil, wipe it all down and clean, and program it properly first. Then keep it. Test periodically. As a 100% new (better than new) chair for a rainy day. Thats what I did with several.

[emilevirus]

I mean it already existed since a while now. Permobil has the same features. They were probably "beta testing" with Permobil. One could try plugging a OEM dongle and see what happens.

[Burgerman]

Dosent work on permobil.