S646se - Full LITHIUM Pack Project - First Attempt

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Re: S646se - Full Pack Project - First Attempt

Postby expresso » 02 Mar 2016, 21:43

Scollard wrote:Look how I used my helping hands. I just used one clip to hold the wire in the cup. I used some busbars to support the connector and a wire cutter to keep it from moving away. You have yours taped down. That will work just fine. Now use the helping hands to hold the wire in place. If you have the wire tinned and the cup 1/2 full of solder all you will need is to apply the tip of the iron and wait until everything melts. Then you are done. Tinning the cups will be much easier once you have the thinner solder.

Helping hands.jpg



i will try that holding it that way - the tape wasnt great - it was ok - on the green mat in the picture but before i had it on the Wood and wasnt sticking - didnt hold it good - ok with the tinner solder - i hope to tin the cup better - -

then the clip holding the wire right on the top of the tinned cup - then touch the iron to the wire with a little solder on the tip of the iron and move away ?

tinning the cup is whats getting me now - they are close and to the other cups -

will try - i have to try what ever way works for me - i really hope the solder will improve once i use the tinner one -
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Re: S646se - Full Pack Project - First Attempt

Postby expresso » 02 Mar 2016, 21:46

i agree those helping hands i have dont stay put - not heavy and move - the glass on top never works for me - its worse if i use the glass - yes i see it closer some - but then i can arrange my hands etc, to get it right and end up burning everything except the cup i want to heat -

i should have gotten that one first - but now if Scollard did it with 25Watt iron - i should be able to with mines 60WATT - about 450 Degrees - ?
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Re: S646se - Full Pack Project - First Attempt

Postby Burgerman » 02 Mar 2016, 22:47

Well I just bought myself a hakko iron about 20 years too late! :lol:

Its 65W but small light and controlled thermostatically. So if it cools in use, it heats back to correct temp fast without burning and going black... Will make life much easier.

And making http://www.instructables.com/id/Third-H ... r-electro/ You can use a lump of wood instead.

As for the thing moving and falling over, do as I do. Clamp it. Or use double sided tape and stick it to the bench. Or stick it (or you components) into a block blue-tack. Trust me a block of that stuff works wonders for holding wires and connectors etc.
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Re: S646se - Full Pack Project - First Attempt

Postby expresso » 02 Mar 2016, 22:59

you got that iron station you linked to ?
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Re: S646se - Full Pack Project - First Attempt

Postby Burgerman » 02 Mar 2016, 23:08

No that was too expensive and in the US. I bought one here.
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Re: S646se - Full Pack Project - First Attempt

Postby expresso » 02 Mar 2016, 23:27

yes you got it there - but the same model you linked too ? i am looking to just get it also and be done with it - cant decide yet - not that the iron is going to make me better at soldering - but every little bit may help -

http://www.amazon.com/Hobby-Creek-Helpi ... 2470955011

just found this -

the kit i found has one tip - or another one with 5 extra tips - just not sure if any of the extra tips will be useful to me for the cable or not -

http://www.amazon.com/Hakko-T18-D08-D12 ... 2470955011
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Re: S646se - Full Pack Project - First Attempt

Postby Burgerman » 02 Mar 2016, 23:36

I ordered it with one pure pointed tip. Which I get on with for lots of things. And a 3.2mm wide tip for doing the bigger wires on my hobby packs etc. You wont need all the others. Maybe instead of the pointed one you may need one with a small flat part to transfer heat for soldering some things.
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Re: S646se - Full Pack Project - First Attempt

Postby expresso » 02 Mar 2016, 23:48

ok - i can either get the kit - with 5 extra tips - i found another tip i think i should get - very pointy - or i can get the kit with no extra tips - and then have the buy the tips extra anyway - will be same price in the end as the kit - i think and have extra tips - the tips in the kit can be used for thicker wires - flat screwdriver tip


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004OR ... K0TQY93VCQ
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Re: S646se - Full Pack Project - First Attempt

Postby expresso » 02 Mar 2016, 23:59

What Temp should i put it when i do the cables - small ones and larger cable ? so i know before hand - i should have it tomorrow - even before the solder !! -
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Re: S646se - Full Pack Project - First Attempt

Postby Burgerman » 03 Mar 2016, 00:19

You ordered one too?

Don't know yet. Set it to what works best! If its too hot it burns the flux away, and doesn't stay tinned will need cleaning a lot, and solder will run too much. Too cool and you dry non shiny joints, takes too long to heat the joint, or solder will not run..

The point is that with a non thermostatic iron the thing gets way too hot. Then too cool if you touch it on anything with high thermal mass like your bigger cables. This way it can be the correct temperature, and get power to stay there if the iron cools when you use it. The iron has good heat conduction and low thermal mass because it can add power and sustain temperature. Doesn't need to be heavy. Means you can use one iron for many jobs.
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Re: S646se - Full Pack Project - First Attempt

Postby expresso » 03 Mar 2016, 00:25

ok - yes i am going to order it - i want to give myself the best chance of doing it correctly - if your a expert at it - you can get away with using less than perfect irons etc, - but when your a beginner like me - it helps if the iron and solder works together and is the correct ones - should i hope make it easier for me

i am anxious to get it right -

i seen the video on utube with the guy using that model - a while ago - but i didnt think he knew what he was doing - when he tried it - didnt look like he could use it correctly - :)
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Re: S646se - Full Pack Project - First Attempt

Postby Burgerman » 03 Mar 2016, 00:26

You will finish up needing a workshop... And have all kinds of projects on the go at once like me!
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Re: S646se - Full Pack Project - First Attempt

Postby expresso » 03 Mar 2016, 00:46

i just dont want to make it harder on myself trying to do something i am not good at with cheaper harder to use iron etc, - i need to right tools so hopefully wont be as hard to learn etc,

with the wrong tools or lesser ones in inexperienced hands - makes it worse - harder to get it right -
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Re: S646se - Full Pack Project - First Attempt

Postby flagman1776 » 03 Mar 2016, 01:03

The hardest part is... working around our deficites... and we each have our own. For this project, secure the plug to the bench. Just make sure it won't move. Get your wire all prepped. Put something heavy on it or clamp it. (You could make a fixture with a piece of board or plywood to anchor the plug. Then a clothes pin or aligator clip or a heavy object.) Flux the parts. Use the tip of your iron to hold the wire into the socket. Add (fluxed) solder. Now for the hard part: hold the wire in place with one hand (weak hand) while you remove the soldering iron (held in good hand).
Both parts must be held in alignment before you start to solder.
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Re: S646se - Full Pack Project - First Attempt

Postby ex-Gooserider » 03 Mar 2016, 01:20

A few different points...

First off, work-holding is very much an 'individual preference' thing, especially for those of us with non-standard body construction / operating systems... Look at the pictures of how people hold stuff down as sources for ideas and try different approaches until you find what works for you... Before you fire up the iron, try it cold, and if you can't make it work while trying to simulate it, it won't work hot, so modify your approach. I use dozens of different methods depending on exactly what I'm trying to do... The key thing is that what you are working on doesn't move when you are touching it with the iron and solder (and remember that it should only take a TOUCH, if you are pushing on the connection you are doing something wrong...)

I don't particularly like holding wires with a 'helping hand' clip - I find that if the insulation softens at all, the clip will damage it. Better to either hand hold the wire, or set it up so the wire stays in place by itself.... (part of the advantage of the 'fill the cup / tin the wire/ then put together' method is that you don't need solder when assembling, just secure the connector, and have iron in one hand and the wire in the other...) If I do use a clip, I want one with a broad flat contact area.

I am very fond of the 'Pana-Vise' line for work holding - they are fairly expensive, but are very versatile - you start with a base that has a wide range of tilt and swivel capability, and has different options for mounting, or has enough weight to just sit on the bench as is; and then can add several different vise units that have different styles of jaws, openings and so on. It makes working on different sorts of hardware easy as you can stick something in the vice and then tilt and swivel it to get just the right angle...

I never found the magnifiers that came with the helping hands to be useful in working - I usually take them off and put a handle on them so I can use them to aid inspection later. During actual soldering they just get in the way.... Having a good work light is essential, preferably NOT florescent, get something with halogen or LED bulbs and on an adjustable position mount... An exception that does work is one of the magnifier work lamps that mounts a large magnifier in a 'Circline' style florescent tube - but I've seen a lot of people replace the tubes with LED strips... I've also heard of people using the 'drugstore reading glasses' . Of course if you are doing SMD work it is even better to use a dissection style microscope...

Soldering stations are wonderful, but they must have a thermostatic control that actually reads the iron temperature. You get what you pay for, the Hako station that BM pointed at is a nice mid-range station (I have a version that is older but similar) However some of the serious SMD guys at the Asylum have stations in the $3-500 range, and those are NICE to use - the iron is as light and small as a fat ballpoint pen, and they hold temperature to within a couple of degrees, precise enough to do freehand assembly of 402 size parts... (about like a large grain of sand - 0.2mm X 0.4mm)) In general a station will give more precise heat control and allow the iron to be a lot smaller and lighter as all the 'smarts' are in the base...

No matter what sort of iron you use, keeping the tip clean is CRITICAL - always keep it tinned, and turn the iron off if not using it for very long. When using it, swipe the tip on the cleaner EVERY time you pick the iron up, and again EVERY time you put it back in the stand - if making multiple connections at once wipe it often in between times.... If the tip isn't bright and shiny, clean it... If you use a solder sponge, moisten it ONLY with distilled water, never tap water. (there are folks that like the stainless or copper scrubbers, and ones that like the sponges - I've used both and prefer a sponge, but either works)

When working on a project like these connectors, it is much easier to break it down into separate steps and do each one on all the parts, then go to the next step - i.e fill ALL the solder cups on all the connectors, put them aside, then strip and tin ALL the wires, and cut up the shrink, if using it... Only then start actually stuffing the tinned wires into the pre-filled solder cups... (and fill all the cups, even the ones you won't be using, as that is easier than trying to keep track of which ones to fill and not...)

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Re: S646se - Full Pack Project - First Attempt

Postby expresso » 07 Mar 2016, 05:18

good ideas you gave me -

i will start next week again to practice on the cheap connectors - i got the new iron station - very fine tips - glasses etc, - they do help alot to see better - i was using just my eyes before - i agree the helping hands sometimes just get in my way -

i have to secure it down for sure so it dosnt move - thats the first thing - i will do that on a kitchen place mat - and just turn the mat around if i want to move it to the other side

once i actually ready to add the wire - i will have to plan ahead- heat shrink - etc, all have to be installed and just waiting to be used - - next week going to get a few good 70 degree days i think - i may just ride then - clear my head and get ready to start again - i am dredging it but at the same time - i think i have a better shot now with the glasses and another round lenses with led light build in - using both of them makes me see much better - this time i will do the work on my kitchen table - more room

thats a good idea to fill all the cups up at once - at least for that one cable at a time - will see - the new solder i got - is very very thin now - seems like it will take longer to fill but may be more accurate -

i try to clean the tip often and i have used reg. water on the sponge - i will use the filtered water instead now - water makes a difference for sure with many things - i didnt think it would with this - i know my espresso machine - i have to use filtered water and a water softener also - to keep it clean inside -- the water softener makes a big difference -
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Re: S646se - Full Pack Project - First Attempt

Postby expresso » 10 Mar 2016, 22:16

Back at it today - two more connectors - back on my computer desk - i find it better here then my table - not sure if its an improvement today - cant say its worse - nor too much better - i feel better at getting the first row of wires on -
not perfect but feel better doing that - its when i have to do the next roll behind the ones i did already - hard not to touch everything - and mess it up

here as some pics - what do you think ?
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Re: S646se - Full Pack Project - First Attempt

Postby expresso » 10 Mar 2016, 22:16

more
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Re: S646se - Full Pack Project - First Attempt

Postby expresso » 10 Mar 2016, 22:17

again
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Re: S646se - Full Pack Project - First Attempt

Postby expresso » 10 Mar 2016, 22:18

this is where i will build the full pack if i get the cable made :|
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Re: S646se - Full Pack Project - First Attempt

Postby Burgerman » 10 Mar 2016, 22:59

Perfectly good. Try the bigger wires.. They are slower and need more solder and heat but same principle. Your bench is starting to look pro!
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Re: S646se - Full Pack Project - First Attempt

Postby expresso » 10 Mar 2016, 23:19

i still feel its not good enough - i am worried when i have to do the row under the top row - i feel i can get the first 5 wires on top done - more practice but i feel a bit better to do that part now - i worry the last 4 wires under the top 5 - so close together -

the iron i have kept at 750 degrees - seems good but i do have to wait a moment to get it melted - not just a touch and its done - could be me also where i am touching etc, - i think i be better with the larger wire - i can take my time to tin it first etc, - no rush - will use a different iron tip and hotter setting -

adding the solder to the large cup - shouldnt be a problem either - right now - i feel the problem is more the 4 wires under the first 5 on top roll - and heating the cups to get the wire in there - i find it better to hold the wire with my hand -

just that its the same side i am holding the iron also - will do a few more - next week - during the week - i will try to secure it better also - so those pictures - would any of them have been good enough to really use ?

i will heat shrink over for a few reason - i feel it holds it together better - i feel safer knowing its not touching also - besides covers my messy work :)

one thing - when i do the real deal - should i be checking the wire before i add the heat shrink etc, - just in case ? and how do i go about checking it - in detail steps please - :D
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Re: S646se - Full Pack Project - First Attempt

Postby Burgerman » 10 Mar 2016, 23:32

Later!
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Re: S646se - Full Pack Project - First Attempt

Postby expresso » 11 Mar 2016, 23:20

Ok - today was my best day yet - i think i finally figured out the best way for me to get it done - i think i be ok with getting the small wires done - now i started to try the larger wire - using 8 awg to practice on - since i have alot of it -
its better to learn the hard way and then it should work easier when i do the 12awg - hopefully - and Exgooseman is correct when he said the Helping hands makes dents and claws into the wire when it holds it -

when i do the real cable - i will wrap some cardboard or something where the cable will sit not to damage it - or may not even use it -

these are the best pics yet - i am happy with the results today - i will start next week on the larger wire to practice some tinning - it does take alot longer to heat up - i had my iron on 850 degrees - hottest setting and using a wide flat tip to cover more surface -
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Re: S646se - Full Pack Project - First Attempt

Postby expresso » 11 Mar 2016, 23:21

more
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Re: S646se - Full Pack Project - First Attempt

Postby expresso » 11 Mar 2016, 23:22

larger wire
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Re: S646se - Full Pack Project - First Attempt

Postby Burgerman » 11 Mar 2016, 23:42

Not enough flux, heat, or solder. It will run and be drawn into the cable if you flux it and get it hotter. I tin those with a small gas torch.
http://pimg.tradeindia.com/01172509/b/1 ... -Torch.jpg

download/file.php?id=4633&mode=view is good.
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Re: S646se - Full Pack Project - First Attempt

Postby LROBBINS » 12 Mar 2016, 00:02

The finer wires are starting to look really good. Burgerman's last remarks refer to your attempts to tin the AWG8 - the lumpy solder says "the wire wasn't hot enough". For 8AWG a torch is probably a better tool than an iron, though I've done OK using even a small, but hot, iron held to the wire a long time before bringing the solder into contact. Except for a little bit of solder melted on the tip to conduct heat, the solder should touch the wire, not the iron. You won't need to use a torch for AWG 12, but you will have to hold the iron on the wire longer than you needed for the finer wires before touching with the solder. Ciao, Lenny
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Re: S646se - Full Pack Project - First Attempt

Postby Burgerman » 12 Mar 2016, 00:35

Really good is even better after I fixed your photo. What on earth are you using as a camera?
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Re: S646se - Full Pack Project - First Attempt

Postby expresso » 12 Mar 2016, 04:14

Burgerman wrote:Not enough flux, heat, or solder. It will run and be drawn into the cable if you flux it and get it hotter. I tin those with a small gas torch.
http://pimg.tradeindia.com/01172509/b/1 ... -Torch.jpg

download/file.php?id=4633&mode=view is good.



yes i have the torch - i didnt really try hard to tin that 8 AWG - i was done for the day after i what i though was a good day for the smaller wires - i know what i have to do now to repeat it - now i am on to the bigger wires -

when i do the 12 AWG - i think it be much better - i am using the 8 AWG because i have enough of it and if i can do the 8 AWG - then the 12 will be easy - same idea with the connectors - if i got 25 wires on there good enough - then 9 wires should be fine when i do the real cable -

if i use the torch on the larger wire - how do you use it - do you use it to heat it up only and then finish it with the iron - or you leave the torch on near it the whole time you tin it ?

i should dip the wire in flux first - heat it good - either torch or iron - and use the solder - - in that order -


this is what it took to finally get the small wires good enough to actually use -

my camera sucks - its my cheap phone camera - when this is all done - a new phone is the next item to get - i am tired of these crappy slow sluggish cell phones - -
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