PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

[Scollard]

ok thanks -


let me explain - the Cable that needs to be made which connects to the PL 8 side - i got the 36 inch extension for the balance wires -

what i wanted to know is - do i use that cable and not add more wire to it to extend it more - or leave it at 36 inches - use the lead cables that come with the PL8 the ones that are fused already - those are i think same size 36 inchs long - if they are not - then i have to add more wire to them to make it the same as the balance -

if thats the case - i can use 12 AWG wire to extend it - i would have to cut solder together heatshrink over it - and thats it -


i guess the end result for the cable that comes off the PL 8 - is going to 3 foot long plus the connectors etc, ?

the cable in the end which goes to the full pack in the chair - that may have to be longer

Yes, you are just going to use the 3' extension cable and cut off the PCB end. Then strip the ends and solder it to the connector. The advantage is the extension cable has the end that plugs into the PL8. There is no advantage to using a 3' extension when you make your balance wires that hook to the battery. One end will be the Sub-D plug and the other will be the ring terminals. So you will end up cutting off both ends of the extension cable. Making the connector that plugs into the charger is a real bitch. You won't have that problem.

[expresso]

ok the chair end - i would use the wire i just got or getting on monday 22 AWG - ring to subd - thats the chair end - with the power leads of course

heres another thing i am not sure of - those balance wires have to be soldered to a certain position on the Sub D end - thats tricky to make sure i put the correct wire in the correct pin -


one more question Scollard - about the full pack - the extra 8 Cells i will add on top - i need the 8 AWG wire for those top cells - can i use Silicone kind in 8 AWG
the marine wire i have - is hard to bend etc, -

and which color should i use - ALL red or all Black or do i need to mix it - RED and BLACK - ? before i order some silicone wire - should i get both colors - ? i have to place another order for more of those end caps - so i might as well get this wire at the same time - just tell me if color matters - or i just get 10 feet black and 10 Feet Red i found on ebay -

8 AWG silicone kind -

thanks

[Scollard]

ok the chair end - i would use the wire i just got or getting on monday 22 AWG - ring to subd - thats the chair end - with the power leads of course

heres another thing i am not sure of - those balance wires have to be soldered to a certain position on the Sub D end - thats tricky to make sure i put the correct wire in the correct pin -


one more question Scollard - about the full pack - the extra 8 Cells i will add on top - i need the 8 AWG wire for those top cells - can i use Silicone kind in 8 AWG
the marine wire i have - is hard to bend etc, -

and which color should i use - ALL red or all Black or do i need to mix it - RED and BLACK - ? before i order some silicone wire - should i get both colors - ? i have to place another order for more of those end caps - so i might as well get this wire at the same time - just tell me if color matters - or i just get 10 feet black and 10 Feet Red i found on ebay -

8 AWG silicone kind -

thanks

Yes, you want a nice flexible 8 AWG stranded wire. You live in NYC, you need to find a local electronics store. Color does not matter. You don't need very much, 5 to 6 feet. It would be good to just buy bulk from the local shop. You will also need 18 ring terminals. These you are going to solder.

You have to decide how you want to arrange the 9 balance wires. The connector has 2 rows of 5. So you will use all of one row and 4 on the 2nd row. You will use the multimeter to check that you get them in the correct order.

Look here for some pictures.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1813&start=620

[shirley_hkg]

You don't need 8awg wire for a 15ah cell, do you?
12awg is enough, and you need them on the 2 ends only, ie 0 and 8.

The others , 1 - - - - 7 , are there for equalization only, so 16awg or less would be enough.

What make you think that you need 8 awg wires to connect the set 15AH cells to the main 90AH pack ?

You should arrange it in a way that most of the current are to be drawn from the 90AH pack , not the 15AH set .


Using these connectors seems more flexible. Assign 2 or 3 pins to bear the main current with more contact.

Easier to solder the 9 balance leads , with a spare pin next to each other.

[shirley_hkg]

I'm using this .

[Burgerman]

http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/BM3-con ... le-40A.jpg

He is trying to make this charge cable. No Anderson involved. This uses the 36 inch cable only.

Same on the battery half.

[expresso]

Ok thanks - Yes in NYC and cant find anything - you be surprised - those little stores that carry everything you need - thats not here - i cant even get something cut at a hardware store - Homedepot dosnt cut here - ACE - hardware - dosnt cut anything - they dont carry things like you think - i barely find things i need - never mind trying to make something out of material thats not what its used for - - its mostly kids working who dont know much other than whats hanging on the walls -
like velcro strips

i do all my shopping on amazon and ebay -

Shriley --- i like those connectors - this way its not so crowded when you attach the small pins etc, - i already got the same connectors as BM - will have to use those - do you have a part number for those connectors ? if for some reason i dont get it going with the ones i have - i can look those up -

to be honest - i am not sure how to connect it in a way where it uses most of the 90ah pack as opposed to the 15ah - i believed its all connected as one - will be used as one pack - i may not end up with the extra 8 cells on top of the 90ah - if i dont like how fits etc, - i am going to shoot for it - and try - but if its becomes too much for me to make work or fit - then i stay with the 90ah - i am sure the 90 ah is going to be just fine for me - but i understand how more is better overall -

i decided to make it worth with the divider i have on the chair now - i will replace the velcro to a thinner kind to give me a little more flex to lift it up a big - i got some thin metal flat rod to side under the divider and lay on the sides of the chair which lifts the divider up a big by just doing that -

if that really dosnt work - then i have to find a replacement material to use as a divider - being that its not easy to find material and get it cut to size etc, - i will try to use what i have first - would make it easier for me - less stress -

[Irving]

Those connectors that Shirley showed are neat, I've used smaller versions of them on other projects.. They are aviation grade YD32 13pin - 4 pins are 2.5mm rated 25A, and 9 pins 1.8mm rated 10A (carrying, not breaking so connect first then power on) so you need to parallel the bigger pins for 40A charging.. The 32 refers to the 32 x 32mm hole spacing of the chassis mount which is 42mm square. They come in various versions i.e. a male chassis socket/female plug or vice versa or cable to cable. The standard is male chassis socket. You can get them from several vendors on Aliexpress

[expresso]

thanks - always good to know other options - i see why BM went with his kind for the higher 40 amp rating - even if its not needed all the time - knowing you can if you do need and knowing if you do use 25A or 30A your still below what it can do -

worse case - i check them out

oh sorry i though you meant the other connector db25 -

[Scollard]

thanks - always good to know other options - i see why BM went with his kind for the higher 40 amp rating - even if its not needed all the time - knowing you can if you do need and knowing if you do use 25A or 30A your still below what it can do -

worse case - i check them out

oh sorry i though you meant the other connector db25 -

Everything Shirley showed you will be just as difficult to solder as the Combo Sub-D you already have. Patience is the key. And maybe get some solder-wick in case you have to remove some solder. Again I stress Patience Patience Patience. Use your helping hands to hold everything and it will work out.

http://www.amazon.com/Aven-17541-Desold ... 1A60NB3_tt

[expresso]

Ok i will remember that when i start it - thanks for that link - i was just about to place an order on amazon for other items i need - i can add that on it now -

Once i really start to make this Cable - whats the best way to approach it -

Start with the power wires first - one on each side - or just start on one side power wire - and work your way across to the smaller pins and the other power wire ?

i am going to try to even heatshrink each wire - i am shooting for the Moon - but hey - if i can swing it - its done right once and thats it -

the other thing for me is - i have to make sure those balance wires are in the correct pins - which i dont which they are - looking at the Female end which will be on the chair - one large pin will be not used - and one smaller pin not used

i am assuming the pins being used have to be in a certain order ?

[Scollard]

Here is where I am in my build.

The 2 batteries:

Soldering the Combo Sub-D. Expresso, notice the helping hands.

Interior of the Combo Sub-D. Expresso, see the heat shrink on the wires. Also not that I only shrunk half of the large heat shrink. This is because I'm going to insert the wire mesh underneath before shrinking the rest.

[Scollard]

Here is the completed connector.

Here is the completed cable. This is the chair-side cable. Going to make the charger side next.

[expresso]

Very nice BM - i like that - i will try - dont expect it to be perfect first time - may not look as good - but as long as it works - i be happy - the Chair side cable -
how long do you usually make that 6 feet total ?

i hope the all my wires fit in the case i got - seems tight -

i will try the Charger side of the cable first after i practice a little to solder with any wire - i got those helping hands also - just got them -

what chair will that pack go in ?

that case is different from the others you used - any reason why ? better fit - more room etc,

[Burgerman]

Not me!
Scollard, very nice scollard. But I would have used a metal shell considering all the effort it takes. But looks good.

Once i really start to make this Cable - whats the best way to approach it -

Once you spend a week, figuring out how soldering works, and what size irons, and how to best do everything, tinning wires, and flkux, temperatures, and all it will be obvious to you. Did you watch the videos. Dont rush, plan... That type of heatshrink with glue on the inside helps hold the mesh sleeve. At the charger end. And some self amalgamating tape inside the clamp on the connector helps on the chair end.

Personally I did the 9 small balance wires first. Each one will need to be in the right order and best to do a computer drawing...

Then I moved from a 10 Watt small iron to a 100 watt sloghtly bigger one for the bigger wires. If you are practised non of it takes long. My cables (I made 4) took well under an hour to complete. If you take 2 days, and then need to cut it off and start again I wouldnt be surprised. Dont let that bother you. Its all learning. Once you get it, its for life.

[Scollard]

Expresso, cable length was 3'.

Shell is metal, nickel plated zinc. I'm going to rubberize it with some spray rubber later on. That will make it essentially waterproof.

I soldered my 10 balance wires first. Then I did the 2 power wires. As I said. I soldered everything with my 40 watt iron.

Expresso, you want to label your balance wires before you solder them on the chair side cable. On the charger side the balance wires will be numbered according to the white connector that goes into the PL8. You need to make sure the pins line up between the 2 connectors. Before you seal up all your connectors we will check them with a multimeter.

[expresso]

oh my bad - i though it was BM - its you Scollard - very nice - - thats your pack - - cable came out very good - - ok so balance wires first - -

i will get back to you to ask about that making sure its in the correct pins before i solder them - dont want to mess that up - - your almost done there -

i was thinking of using some of the black graffing tape i got - to cover the whole case etc, - its like electrical tape but better - not shiny finish and sticks good -

rubber spray sounds good -

[Scollard]

There is this product called Plasti Dip. There are some guys here in the Porsche club that color their rims with this stuff. It's incredibly durable. IT will give you a nice flat rubberized surface.

[expresso]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006S ... l_huc_item


someone told me about this a while back - i never looked it over - was thinking its a good way to change color on your chair - then you can peel it off if you dont like it or get bored -

i would think its alot of work to do the chair nicely or really to take it off - seems like work - i seen videos showing someone doing a car - in wish list for later

[expresso]

Scollard - would you spray the whole case of the charge cable - over the end where the wires come out also - that would be ok ?

just cover the front - pins etc, - - another thing - is there a DB 25 cover you will use - ? like the dust covers for the andersons ? i would want to cover it when not and only remove it for charging

[shirley_hkg]

Doing the SUB-D connector is definitely a hard job for novice. I can't do that nicely, poor wrist.

If you are not eager to take credit, take it to a radio shop, where they can do it without effort.

[Scollard]

Scollard - would you spray the whole case of the charge cable - over the end where the wires come out also - that would be ok ?

just cover the front - pins etc, - - another thing - is there a DB 25 cover you will use - ? like the dust covers for the andersons ? i would want to cover it when not and only remove it for charging

It's up to you I suppose. I'm just going to spray the DB25 housing to make it waterproof. I live in Seattle and quite often I am out on my scooter in the rain.

The actual Combo Sub-D is waterproof to begin with.

[Burgerman]

At 24v and at 3.6v per cell, it wouldn't much matter if you did it under water. Rain doesn't conduct enough to matter. If its mounted under the seat pan near the front edge where mine are, then it wont get wet regardless.

So covering it all in that goo seems a bit unnecessary and messy + difficult to work on or fix later on. And it seals any water or condensation that does get in so that it never dries out.

[flagman1776]

One possiblity for increasing weather resistance is to mount a piece of rubber or plastic film above the plug so that it draped down over it as a shield... lift up to plug in... but catch any stray splash.

[Burgerman]

Lets look at it sensibly.

In the UK the mains electricity is 230V AC. Max peak voltage is 360V since its a sine wave. If I take a RUNNING 2kw electric fan heater, still plugged into the wall, and lower it by its cable into a bucket of tap water or rain water, nothing bad happens. It continues to run, and slowly heats up the water. If you look very close there are a very few tiny bubbles because of the chlorine in tap water, and the fan rotates slowly. as the water causes a lot of drag.

As I lift it out, by its cable and still running, the water and dirt run away and mostly stay in the bucket. The heater emits a puff of steam, and the fan speeds up again. All working normally but now clean. I used to clean the dust from my heater this way!

Now I am not saying it doesent matter, but we are talking about 24V here. In a connector that will not get wet anyway. Tucked away under a seat high off the ground. Is the connector on your joystick covered up? No. Because it doesent matter. Dirt does. But its also quite hard to see how you will get dirt there, in enough quantity that it could ever make a difference. Even the one on my vans wheel arch, blasted with water, road muck every winter, works great after 9 years... Uncovered and coated in road crud.

Front wheel arch. When it was clean...

So dont worry!

[flagman1776]

[expresso]

Doing the SUB-D connector is definitely a hard job for novice. I can't do that nicely, poor wrist.

If you are not eager to take credit, take it to a radio shop, where they can do it without effort.

i will have no choice - i would have to do it - NYC is not what everyone thinks or is used to - Radio shop - haha - good luck finding one here - those days are over - and maybe never was in the City Manhattan area - maybe 30 years ago in the other parts of the city - Bronx - etc, we had many stores - you can find anything - Radio shack used to be great for this - many local little mom and pop stores - fix TVS - Radios - Electronics etc, - NO more - no one does that anymore -

NYC Is for making money - not for working - no ones wants to work - just sell you what they have at 10x the price and thats it - IF you find someone or someplace that actually does something - thats custom work - even more money -

i have to do it myself - will practice with the larger 8 awg wire tonight to solder two together - i have enough of that wire - and i have some 16 awg also i can play with -

i was looking at the 36 inch balance cable - and i cant see anything written on those wires - with or without my glasses - its small !!! red and black wire of course - we know that - but the others i will need to figure out the wiring -

about the Sub D - i worry about that when i am done - i may just wrap black graffing tape around it - and use a dust cover i found at digikey - if i knew i would have purchased it already - - this was never discussed before - so everyone who made this cable is not using anything to cover the ends ?

on my chair i am not sure i can hide it enough to keep it away from rain dust etc, -

this is what i have found - http://www.digikey.com/product-search/e ... &vendor=37

will have to call them to ask how good it stays put - and which do i need - both male and female versions - for the chair side - it has to be the Male version - the charger side is the female dust cover

[Burgerman]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1813&start=1240#p77766

read!

[expresso]

Lets look at it sensibly.

In the UK the mains electricity is 230V AC. Max peak voltage is 360V since its a sine wave. If I take a RUNNING 2kw electric fan heater, still plugged into the wall, and lower it by its cable into a bucket of tap water or rain water, nothing bad happens. It continues to run, and slowly heats up the water. If you look very close there are a very few tiny bubbles because of the chlorine in tap water, and the fan rotates slowly. as the water causes a lot of drag.

As I lift it out, by its cable and still running, the water and dirt run away and mostly stay in the bucket. The heater emits a puff of steam, and the fan speeds up again. All working normally but now clean. I used to clean the dust from my heater this way!

Now I am not saying it doesent matter, but we are talking about 24V here. In a connector that will not get wet anyway. Tucked away under a seat high off the ground. Is the connector on your joystick covered up? No. Because it doesent matter. Dirt does. But its also quite hard to see how you will get dirt there, in enough quantity that it could ever make a difference. Even the one on my vans wheel arch, blasted with water, road muck every winter, works great after 9 years... Uncovered and coated in road crud.

Front wheel arch. When it was clean...


Ok - but still to keep dirt out - my chairs get dusty dirty when i ride - in dirt sections sometimes - i think a dust cover at the very least - - but about the joystick not being affected by Water - well i disagree - because many users here get there joystick wet from the rain and then have issues - till it drys - i always use a small plastic bag and cover the joystick if out in the rain - everyone one i know does it also - either they were affected or just follow what every else does -

but i do know a few for sure who got stuck or had issues with the chair joystick if it got wet - i am not talking about a dizzle - i mean wet - raining and its not covered at all - - i will still look into a DB 25 dust cover - at the very least for the chair end which will be exposed to dirt - and then why not get the other one anyway - cant hurt - when not in use

So dont worry!

[expresso]

https://www.vpi.us/d-sub-covers/db25-cover-female-973