PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

[Burgerman]

http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/board/download/file.php?id=5569&mode=view

Set 60A

[steves1977uk]

Expresso,

instead of plugging and unplugging, you can wire in a switch to do the same thing.

which means what excatly - i have a cell monitor that i got from Shirley - but never did anything with it - if theres a way i can wire it and leave it alone - not draining my battery in the OFF postion - then when i want to see it - turn it ON - check and turn it Off again -

that i can look into - i would do it during the winter when i take it out to replace the main power wires - i need more details about this -

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Heavy-Duty-To ... SwqYBWn9F4 or http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5pcs-AC-250V- ... rkt%3D1%26 Use one of these types of switches to isolate both the negative and positive wires on the cell monitor, although you might get away with just isolating the positive wire.

Steve

[shirley_hkg]

WOW . That's way too big to my 1cm micro switch .

[expresso]

http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/board/download/file.php?id=5569&mode=view

Set 60A

What do i have to set to 60A if your talking to me about my Supply section of the PL 8 ?


i dont have battery source enabled - only DC power - -

i can enable the battery source also and leave them both enabled ?

download/file.php?id=5566&mode=view

or make me a screen shot like this - the way i should keep mines - so i can see whats needs to be enabled - settings etc,

thanks

[expresso]

Expresso,

instead of plugging and unplugging, you can wire in a switch to do the same thing.

which means what excatly - i have a cell monitor that i got from Shirley - but never did anything with it - if theres a way i can wire it and leave it alone - not draining my battery in the OFF postion - then when i want to see it - turn it ON - check and turn it Off again -

that i can look into - i would do it during the winter when i take it out to replace the main power wires - i need more details about this -

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Heavy-Duty-To ... SwqYBWn9F4 or http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5pcs-AC-250V- ... rkt%3D1%26 Use one of these types of switches to isolate both the negative and positive wires on the cell monitor, although you might get away with just isolating the positive wire.

thanks - i really dont know whats the best way for me in my case - i have to figure this out better - i have a cell monitor i got from Shirley - if i can use that somehow - i wonder if i run long balancing wires from the box up to my seat and then can connect it from with in my chair seating myself and disconnect it - i would have to keep this long balance wires cable on my seat side - thats all i can think of right now -

Steve

[expresso]

WOW . That's way too big to my 1cm micro switch .

what is that - the small box is just an alarm for your batteries - ?

i have to look at the Cell monitor i got from you - - i will be taking the pack out this winter to replace main power cables etc, - if i can understand and figure out a good way to add the that monitor or use something to give me some feedback that i can do myself from in my chair alone - i would want to do it once the pack is out this winter - if not once i put it back - i dont expect to have to take it out anymore - so this is a good time for me to try it -

[shirley_hkg]

You don't need to remove battery from chair for rewiring .

Solder a DB male connector to the monitor . That's it .

[expresso]

:lol: You don't need to remove battery from chair for rewiring .

Solder a DB male connector to the monitor . That's it .

oh very nice - didnt think of that - i can make a DB with the balance cable from the PL 8 and plug it in the monitor you got me -

check it and unplug it after - make a good 2 foot cable to leave near my side on the seat -

If i left it connected during the rides - will that drain the battery alot ?

if i dont keep it connected - will it lose its settings after i unplug it ?

105ah - gives me 40 miles using 90ah - 15ah is left reserve - enough to keep Cells about 3V - should be safe there

140ah should give me 50 miles - same more or less in reserve - that i havnt tested yet if i ever make it - but 40 miles was done and correct

but if i can do use it this way - i will do it - want to make extra back up cable anyway - this one will be made with just balance wires - no power wires in the DB - ?

thanks - i have to find the monitor you got me and start looking it over -

[Burgerman]

If it takes a small 50mA (SHIRLEYS FIGURE) from one cell group. it will take 1Ah hour meaning 1 hour to rebalance the battery, at the end of charge when recharging in a 20 hour day of typical use. Because the PL8 has 1A true proportional balance capability, it will rebalance safely and smoothly but add 1 hour.

Or will take an additional 10 to 20 hours on charge, repeatedly bouncing the cells up to a silly voltage if you were still using the on/ off BMS with its inadequate 50mA to 100mA balancer! Boing boing boing In reality the charger will probably turn off before they get balanced. So gets worse next time! And over and over.

[expresso]

If it takes a small 50mA (SHIRLEYS FIGURE) from one cell group. it will take 1Ah hour meaning 1 hour to rebalance the battery, at the end of charge when recharging in a 20 hour day of typical use. Because the PL8 has 1A true proportional balance capability, it will rebalance safely and smoothly but add 1 hour.

Or will take an additional 10 to 20 hours on charge, repeatedly bouncing the cells up to a silly voltage if you were still using the on/ off BMS with its inadequate 50mA to 100mA balancer! Boing boing boing In reality the charger will probably turn off before they get balanced. So gets worse next time! And over and over.

So this means its Safe to leave it connected once i make the cable ? i did the ride again today but went further the whole path -

44 miles round trip - charging up now - The ADD on put back 25ah in the 36ah pack - i expect to put back 75ah on the 105ah pack once done charging

very good - took 6 and half hours round trip -

would i be able to use a normal DB9 connector and still plug it in the DB25 i have on the chair - ? instead of using the db25 i used to make the charge cable ?

if it works - i can plug it in using just the Balance wires on the DB 9 - if the holes line up etc, - or else - sacrifice another DB25 for the cell monitor - worth if i have to - its nice to know and see it during these long rides -

[Burgerman]

You will need to sacrifice...

No don't leave it on all day. Press a button to connect the neg! Or unplug the meter from the pins.

[expresso]

yes i just realized that - its ok - i have extra - was ready to make many mistakes but turned out - i only ended up wasting the first one when i tried to make the cable very first time - after that - all good -

i dont know how to do the push button thing - i have to look at the cell monitor i got from shirley - i have to just plug it in and check - then unplug it - thats fine - as long as i can do it while i am sitting in the chair - i be alone - thats fine

i can make the cable using one of the PL 8 balance cable 36 inch long - should be enough - plug it in when i go out - and leave it - when i want to check it - i plug in the monitor and remove after i check it

this way - it wont use any battery at all ?

push button sounds nice also - i dont know what i need and where do i add it and how etc, -

[Burgerman]

Not enough to detect... A tiny momentary switch in the one negative wire. Next to the monitor. You have to keep it pressed. Use a LATCHED switch to keep it on or off if you prefer.

https://www.amazon.com/6x6x6mm-Momentar ... +momentary 1/4 inch square.

Bigger... if you want. https://www.amazon.com/Pieces-12mmx12mm ... icroswitch

Cut 1 wire, add in line with your iron. And 2 tiny bits of heat shrink.

A latched one but a bit big? Up to you! I would use this. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-x-DIP-PCB- ... 1060706375

A tiny switch http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CHROME-PLATED ... Sw-YVXlgMX

[expresso]

Not enough to detect... A tiny momentary switch in the one negative wire. Next to the monitor. You have to keep it pressed. Use a LATCHED switch to keep it on or off if you prefer.

https://www.amazon.com/6x6x6mm-Momentar ... +momentary 1/4 inch square.

Bigger... if you want. https://www.amazon.com/Pieces-12mmx12mm ... icroswitch

Cut 1 wire, add in line with your iron. And 2 tiny bits of heat shrink.

A latched one but a bit big? Up to you! I would use this. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-x-DIP-PCB- ... 1060706375

A tiny switch http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CHROME-PLATED ... Sw-YVXlgMX

What do you mean not enough to detect ? IF i made the cable and just left it on my side - when i want to check - i plug in the cell monitor -- that wont work ?

if not i have to add one of those switches push button - i would have to make the cable - then the Neg. wire - only - splice it open and just add one wire to that Neg. wire and thats it ?

when i am ready to make this cable - i will ask again to make sure - i see four pins on those push buttons - have no idea what i do with those 4 pins -


http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-x-On-Off-Sub- ... 2518.l4276

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philmore-30-228 ... xyOmBSKNBp

these would all do the same thing ? the push button one - do you have to hold it down to make it work - or just push it once to turn it on and push it again to turn it off ?

which is best way to go -


I got 77ah and change returned on the 105ah - and about 25ah and change on the ADD ON - which means that used up 102ah total - of the 140ah pack on todays ride

[LROBBINS]

Yes, their are four mounting legs/contacts on these switches, but they are actually 2 pairs - two are connected internally to one switch contact, and the other two to the other switch contact. Double check with your ohmmeter to make sure you get them wired correctly, or you will simply have a permanent connection rather than a switched one. These are designed for printed-circuit board mounting and the four legs ensure a solid mount to the board when soldered. You can actually use ANY SPST momentary or latching switch that you like - all you are doing is opening the minus lead to the monitor, and connecting the two ends of the opened wire back together with the switch. Switch open - no current drain, switch closed - monitor active.

[Burgerman]

So 44 miles on 102Ah? Actually about 4 or 5 less because recharging is about 95 percent efficient. You really used 97Ah(ish).

So you had about 40% left. Or 25 percent if you leave a safe bit in reserve.
So you could have gone 44miles + 25% safely or another 11 miles, giving a safe 55 miles possible. You need to get up even earlier.

[shirley_hkg]

AVE SPEED of 10kph as expected .

[expresso]

Yes, their are four mounting legs/contacts on these switches, but they are actually 2 pairs - two are connected internally to one switch contact, and the other two to the other switch contact. Double check with your ohmmeter to make sure you get them wired correctly, or you will simply have a permanent connection rather than a switched one. These are designed for printed-circuit board mounting and the four legs ensure a solid mount to the board when soldered. You can actually use ANY SPST momentary or latching switch that you like - all you are doing is opening the minus lead to the monitor, and connecting the two ends of the opened wire back together with the switch. Switch open - no current drain, switch closed - monitor active.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-x-On-Off-Sub- ... 2518.l4276

i may try this one - this way i have a secure on and off click and stays there - i post back once i get the parts and start to actually do it to make sure i connect the correct wires - i wait till winter to do all this kind of work - wont be long till its cold anyway -

i wonder why no one mentioned this before - if this was all it takes with the SubD etc, - i could have done it long time ago - i got the wrong impression before of how to use the monitor - now i know better

thanks

[expresso]

So 44 miles on 102Ah? Actually about 4 or 5 less because recharging is about 95 percent efficient. You really used 97Ah(ish).

So you had about 40% left. Or 25 percent if you leave a safe bit in reserve.
So you could have gone 44miles + 25% safely or another 11 miles, giving a safe 55 miles possible. You need to get up even earlier.

its nice to know i have more than enough reserve - i dont think i try to break that record this summer - its just about over to take these rides soon - this was the first time i got up this early - 8 am - !!! and had to rush to be out by 10 am
i normally dont get up till 10am

by next summer - what i will do is take either a Bus or Train up to the NJ Bridge - saves me 12 miles easy - this way i start off on a full thank of Gas when i am in NJ already

i found an area at the Alpine boat house - which was the end of this Bike Trail more or less - speaking to someone there - and was welcomed to charge if i needed there anytime they are open - mostly Mon- Fri - summer times

that was the 20 mile mark on the nose - one way - thats good to know - and there was a small snack shack which was closed but Soda Machine outside with extra outlet - with roof over your head also - thats another option -

so if i had my PSU and charger i could have charged easy there - with out the PSU - i would need to charge from a Car Battery only ?

[expresso]

:lol: AVE SPEED of 10kph as expected .

yes it was right ON the mark - alot of hills now - so speed goes down alot many times - stopping etc, now that i use the chair this way - thinking it over about want to even consider larger tires even if i could do it - i may not want to now

if the chair is going to take a hit on the bottom end - to gain a bit more on speed isnt worth it - if no hills in my riding - then it be ok - but i feel it already on hills with the fast motors - slows it down some - even though its MUCH better than lead -
i still feel it - if i lost any more bottom end - it wont be good thing

Good thing that this chair feels fine with the current tires - other than they wear out very fast - they feel soft enough for me to use - not worth the trouble with this chair - will leave it alone -

[Burgerman]

so if i had my PSU and charger i could have charged easy there - with out the PSU - i would need to charge from a Car Battery only ?

Unless you can do magic!

If you had my BM3, same range, but 16mph, you could enter the New York marathon, and win it! Just follow the leader to the last 100 meters, then pull out and pass him, waving arms!

[expresso]

so if i had my PSU and charger i could have charged easy there - with out the PSU - i would need to charge from a Car Battery only ?

Unless you can do magic!

If you had my BM3, same range, but 16mph, you could enter the New York marathon, and win it! Just follow the leader to the last 100 meters, then pull out and pass him, waving arms!

i see - that would be cool - Ok let me ask you this - is there a smaller PSU i can use in that situation - even if i had to charge at slower rate - lets say 20A - do you think i can find a smaller lighter unit - - just an idea - i mean i do have the 20A dumb charger - SB50 could use that for a quick charge - but would be too big heavy to carry around and the reason i did lithium was so i Dont have to carry any chargers - - but being the PL 8 is small - compact - its manageable do carry if needed

so any smaller lighter PSU which can be carried with PL 8 ?

[Burgerman]

Any. The smaller they are the less use they are. I would use a car as supply in emergency. Those are everywhere!

Remember you now have 3x the battery. 3x the range. You NEED 3x the charger power to charge at the same speed as lead before.

Thats why we are using a 40A PL8! It is 5x as powerful as the lead 8A mobility chargers. Its not going to be easy to get a power supply that's small, and that can make much of a dent!

[Burgerman]

If you put that 140Ah lithium on a brushless invacare chair it will go 75 to 85 miles!

[expresso]

If you put that 140Ah lithium on a brushless invacare chair it will go 75 to 85 miles!

What would a ADD ON pack do for the Invacare chair with GB motors - lets say the 36ah i have now - and a 45ah pack - ?

i am suggesting to Quickiee2 if she wants to ride with me far - she can add the fast charge cable back on her chair - and hand the ADD ON on her chair

would she be able to do 40 miles that way ?

[Burgerman]

Without knowing how many Ah per mile its hard to guess. But maybe. Just.

[expresso]

Without knowing how many Ah per mile its hard to guess. But maybe. Just.

would be interesting to test that - i dont think she do it anyway - put the cable back and connect the ADD on - but i know this may mean nothing -the joystick lights etc, - but when we did ride - my chair would be in the Red - and hers never lost one bar - not that it means she full -
but her chair can do much more on the same batteries than any other chair -

i would say 20 miles easy and maybe a bit more - with the ADD on - she can gain another 10 , 12 to 15 miles more easy - if she can get 25 miles with the lead -
then 40 with the ADD on maybe is doable - if not - very close

maybe for next summer - would be easy since i have the ADD On already - all she needs to do is put the cable back - Cant say the condition of her batteries at the time - that can hinder the true mileage

so shirley should be doing alot of mileage with his chair -

[Burgerman]

possibly. But he uses older used batteries, I think. And takes his GF/wife with him. Still likely gets up to 65 70 miles. Brushless and lithium together best of both worlds.

[expresso]

GF and Wife hopefully not both at the same time - Go Shirley

[Andrey]

I finally completed my 84Ah battery (8S) (hurray!) and faced a strange thing.

Battery connects to a charger (Hyperion 1420) with d-sub connector (power+balance), balance splits via adapter to 4s+4s on the charger end. I successfully drew out 30Ah from the battery (by hyperion). All looks good. All 8 groups shows about 3.30V with 0.007V gap.

But...when I unplug battery from the charger, it immediately turns off and PSU goes to "Over-current" mode (tried 3 times). When I turn it on, everything works again.

What happens and what to do? Have absolutely no ideas. Help

Thank you!

p.s. charger also doesn't connects to PC, seems usb is dead. It happend sudden few month ago while I charged cells, but charger itself works ok after this.