help me

[daveonwheels]

because you need to stop altering motor compensation.it is the wrong way to make chair drivable as we've told you for 6 pages

[q700m]

Burgerman
I don't understand why he was able to raise it?

[Burgerman]

When you reply to my many posts, and many questions etc then we can continue. Until that happens I feel like I am talking to a brick wall.

[q700m]

the seat is stationary.
the left hand is the most controllable, other types of control I cannot use.
I can't stand any kind of limb or arm tying.
i have driven an f50, a p220, a samba, a groove and an edge 2.0 in this way.
the lower limbs when the chair is not nervous stand on the footrests normally.

[q700m]

Lets try again.
I already asked you to TEST this. You ignored me again.

1. SET turn speed, and minimum turn speed to 7.

2. SET the YELLOW fields, AS BELOW:
Do the ADVANCED ELECTRONIC STABILITY first on its own. And do not set is above 55. And TEST. It should help you.

3. AFTER you test the ABOVE (2) then test the FRONT WHEEL DRIVE TYPE as shown, seperately. So you know how that feels. It MAY help you or may make it worse. TRY these SEPERATELY.


Then TEST With video so I can see.

the ADVANCED ELECTRONIC STABILITY first on
worst
FRONT WHEEL DRIVE TYPE
much worse

[Burgerman]

Well then I dont know how to help you. Just set everything to 1 and all the jumpiness you dont like will be gone. Along with all possiblility of control.

You ignored this again: Then TEST With video so I can see.

The problem here is that your control ability is nowhere near adequate. You do not have the hand control eeded to control a joystick safely. Without some changes to the chair I cant see how that can change. And even then will likely not be good. The 3 second long video you posted simply shows that the chair is doing exactly as it should. The turning in the video was quite gentle even with wildy over controlled input. It was you that wasnt. I dont know how its possible to change that.

[q700m]

but can I really not set the motor co-compensation to 35 mohm?
when I fell on the slope it was at 30
and all acelerations and decelerations were at 1

[Burgerman]

Because when you set compensation LOW the chair has no torque so doesent respond UNTIL you add loads more gas/stick to overcome a resistance/ load... Then it takes off suddenly at speed. It does this on turn commands as well as when accelerating, decelerating, and especially when under a load such as a ramp or threshold. It therefore REMOVES linear control. And then makes the chair OVERSHOOT the original command once the load is lessened. In your case turning and tipping you out unexpectedly.

That compensation was only a part of the reason the chair tipped you out. The other part was that the turn accel and decel set to a crazy slow/(delayed) 1. It kicked in and gave a big turn command long AFTER you wanted it, aided further by the overshoot from too low compensation. The 3rd part was that your control ability is around 10% correct and 90% incorrect. So you are not giving the correct input data. You do not have adequate hand control. Even the position of your arm is hurting your control.

This is the reason that you have to have aa hard to get OEM level programmer to adjust compensation. To stop people like you that do not understand that its dangerous setting it incorrectly in the mistaken belief that it is intended as a user or control adjustment setting!
Now it can be fine tuned. But chairs are usually set with it too LOW from the factory by around 5mOhms. With settings like your 1 or 8 for turn speed you *must* have the compensation set to the stock setting, (at least) in order that the chair will actually turn if its under a load. Like a ramp, thick carpet, etc. Even if it seems OK on a hard surface.

But do as you want. When you land on your side again I will remind you why. YOU cant feel this effect, because your hand control input capability is so poor. You are looking for anything that "dulls" the chairs response. Preferrably completely!

The problem is not the compensation.
Your accident was caused by a mix of rediculously low turn acc and turn dec settings. Of 1. And low compensation.

Is your chair 8MPH? (13KPH)? If so then thats also a PART of your problem. Because that makes steer control inputs more sensitive as well as making the chair faster. Because of taller gearing. So you need a 6 or 10 kph chair. And this will only help a LITTLE.

You would also be much better in a rear drive powerchair as they are directionally STABLE instead of a mid drive that is NEUTRALLY stable. Rear drive chairs WANT to go straight. Mid drives dont... They want to turn.

What about the different shaped RESTRICTOR PLATES? You ignored this too.

[LROBBINS]

BTW, a diamond restrictor plate reduces turn response when moving forward or back even more than a circular one, and I even had one joystick that had a semicircle in front and a triangle in back so turn response was like for a circular plate when going forward, and like a diamond when in reverse.

[Burgerman]

I prefer the square ones. Driving my powerchair by RC with square joystick s much more spirited! But I dont have hand movement issues and have good joystick skills. Yes a diamond one would help.

[LROBBINS]

I am not familiar with the RNet parameters, but there may be equivalents to some of those I have in my homemade CANbus system.

TurnAtFullSpeed = 60; // range = 20 - 100. 100=no reduction of turn rate with speed, 20=turn rate
// is 20% of normal at full speed.
// particularly useful for front wheel drive chairs

This turns a circular restrictor plate into something between a circle and a diamond. The 60 value is what's on Rachi's old FWD chair.

CompTurnBoost = 65; // milliohms, range = 0 - 767
/* Because heavy loading of casters on some chairs can make it difficult to
start a turn when not moving, CompTurnBoost provides extra compensation in
that situation. This extra boost disappears as soon as current drops when
the caster starts to swivel. The effect of this boost also decreases as
fore-aft power increases, and becomes zero at 5% fore-aft PWM which is enough
fore-aft movement to straighten even heavily-loaded, difficult to swivel casters.*/

Even though this more than doubles the baseline compensation (50 mOhms on her old chair), because it acts only in this special circumstance it won't lead to runaway. Even the basic compensation is somewhat protected from runaway if set too high because the motor current sensors go only to 100 Amps, so limits the added command.

[Burgerman]

I am not familiar with the RNet parameters, but there may be equivalents to some of those I have in my homemade CANbus system.

TurnAtFullSpeed = 60; // range = 20 - 100. 100=no reduction of turn rate with speed, 20=turn rate
// is 20% of normal at full speed.
// particularly useful for front wheel drive chairs

This turns a circular restrictor plate into something between a circle and a diamond. The 60 value is what's on Rachi's old FWD chair.

This is what the two settings for FRONT WHEEL DRIVE settings and the software stability do as far as I know. So it should help fix the problem but he says it made t worse and we cant actually see this as he wont do any videos. Dont see how it could make it worse but thats what he said. I need to actually be there and make him test half a dozen things seperately. But I cant do that!

CompTurnBoost = 65; // milliohms, range = 0 - 767
/* Because heavy loading of casters on some chairs can make it difficult to
start a turn when not moving, CompTurnBoost provides extra compensation in
that situation. This extra boost disappears as soon as current drops when
the caster starts to swivel. The effect of this boost also decreases as
fore-aft power increases, and becomes zero at 5% fore-aft PWM which is enough
fore-aft movement to straighten even heavily-loaded, difficult to swivel casters.*/


Even though this more than doubles the baseline compensation (50 mOhms on her old chair), because it acts only in this special circumstance it won't lead to runaway. Even the basic compensation is somewhat protected from runaway if set too high because the motor current sensors go only to 100 Amps, so limits the added command.

Thats what the TORQUE setting does. Set 1 to 100. Its affect is only felt at super low speeds when starting or overcoming initial load when turn in place and if set too high makes the chair jump initially. If set too low or 0 then it just relies on the normal compensation settings. So you set the normal main compensation to the correct value by driving and thorough testing. Then add a LITTLE "Torque" (stupidly named) at a time and test on thresholds, turning on ramps, turning in place. Only the first 2 inches! After that its not doing anything you can detect. Add enough so turns are just reliabe even at silly slow turn speed settings. And not enough that it jumps when you touch the joystick.

[q700m]

which is more dangerous, lowering the engine compaction or lowering all acceleration and deceleration?

[Burgerman]

If you dont want the chair to do unexpected things they are both important.

You ignored everything I spent 30 mins typing in the last post again. This is becoming tiring because you do not respond, or appear to even read what I write.

[greybeard]

If you dont want the chair to do unexpected things they are both important.

You ignored everything I spent 30 mins typing in the last post again. This is becoming tiring because you do not respond, or appear to even read what I write.

Can't help feeling you are being played, BM.

[q700m]

If you dont want the chair to do unexpected things they are both important.

You ignored everything I spent 30 mins typing in the last post again. This is becoming tiring because you do not respond, or appear to even read what I write.

Can't help feeling you are being played, BM.

I'm a poor christ, let alone make fun of anyone

[q700m]

If you dont want the chair to do unexpected things they are both important.

You ignored everything I spent 30 mins typing in the last post again. This is becoming tiring because you do not respond, or appear to even read what I write.

excuse me, but you know my problem is language, I read and write via google if I understand, you tell me to reduce the torque to the minimum ?

[daveonwheels]

lrobbins lives in italy and speaks fine italian.he's a nice guy and im confident he can help you with your language problems. just ask! [ask for lenny ]

[daveonwheels]

If you dont want the chair to do unexpected things they are both important.

You ignored everything I spent 30 mins typing in the last post again. This is becoming tiring because you do not respond, or appear to even read what I write.

Can't help feeling you are being played, BM.

no,q700m does not speak english

[greybeard]

OK.

[Pierro]

no,q700m does not speak english

My English is also bad and I use google translation too. There are often translation errors and problems with understanding.Technical terms in particular are often mistranslated. But q700m never asks about BM's comments. This gives me the impression that he hasn't read it. However, I also have the feeling that the q700m cannot cope with the programming of hes chair. If he doesn't cooperate, nobody can help him. And that seems unfriendly.

But we don't know the exact background. Maybe he doesn't have anyone constantly plugging in the dongle and nobody filming him while he's driving. I don't know, a little more communication would help us.

[q700m]

I repeat exactly what happened, because if it was not due to the low compensation, I would feel guilty.

Code: Select all

when I put the compensation at 30mmohm I was happy, because the wheelchair was very drivable and overcame obstacles and slopes without difficulty.

but then, I didn't understand, because on that slope the chair turned quickly on itself and fell, maybe because I started at the beginning of the slope at very low speed 1 then 2...3....4....5 quickly with the right wheel that took a hole and the chair turned on itself.
I'm afraid that it will happen again, otherwise I would put the motor compensation at 30mohm and I wouldn't have any more driving problems
what do you think could have happened?

p.s. i also had all turn and forward acceleration and deceleration set to 1

[Burgerman]

I give up.

I explained this in 20 different ways.Over and over. In dozens of posts that you wont read or dont understand. And STILL you keep asking the same thing.

very low speed 1 then 2...3....4....5 quickly with the right wheel that took a hole and the chair turned on itself.

Thats EXACTLY what I would expect with low compensation and rediculously low turn acc and turn deceleration. (10th time of answering this same thing)... And the last time.

You configured your chair to be uncontrollable and dangerous. Because it doesent "jerk"... And so it is now uncontrollable and dangerous... Which you also dont like.
But you will not configure it so that its safe and controllable because then you cant drive it. And are frightened if it actually responds. Because of lack of hand skills...
And you wont reply or comment on anything I suggest that may help.

[q700m]

I give up.

I explained this in 20 different ways.Over and over. In dozens of posts that you wont read or dont understand. And STILL you keep asking the same thing.

very low speed 1 then 2...3....4....5 quickly with the right wheel that took a hole and the chair turned on itself.

Thats EXACTLY what I would expect with low compensation and rediculously low turn acc and turn deceleration. (10th time of answerin this same thing)... And the last time.

You configured your chair to be uncontrollable and dangerous. Because it doesent "jerk"... And so it is dangerous... Which you also dont like.
But you will not configure it so that its safe and controllable because then you cant drive it. Because of lack of hand skills...
And you wont reply or comment on anything I suggest that may help. So I am out of here.

forgive me. last question
then I raise the acc and the turn decelerations to 100 and keep the compency low?

[shirley_hkg]

Is it really that difficult to take videos today ?

[Burgerman]

forgive me. last question
then I raise the acc and the turn decelerations to 100 and keep the compency low?

SEVEN FULL pages of detailed explanations and you are STILL ignoring everything I say or ask. And then asking the same question!

[q700m]

can the flag switch only be used to change profiles?

[q700m]

can the flag switch only be used to change profiles?

I want to create profiles with different maximum forward speeds

[Burgerman]

The profile I made already does that. ONE profile, and the right switch sets the SPEEDS in 5 steps. Those are the minimum forward speeds and the max forward speeds set inside programming. You dont need more than 1 profile to do that. It already does!

Anyway since you never replied to anything I say or suggest or ask, and keep on asking the exact same question for 6 pages I am out of here! No longer replying.

[q700m]

The profile I made already does that. ONE profile, and the right switch sets the SPEEDS in 5 steps. Those are the minimum forward speeds and the max forward speeds set inside programming. You dont need more than 1 profile to do that. It already does!

Anyway since you never replied to anything I say or suggest or ask, and keep on asking the exact same question for 6 pages I am out of here! No longer replying.

please list your requests like this
1) request
2) request
3) request
so I understand what you want to know

thank you very much