Powersoccer chair that really kicks

[sepos]

HOW are you powering this Roboteq ON?
- as described in manual. using 24v setup

Do the graphs work, can you see input and output?
- graphs work, i see joystick input. motor outputs are low.

Did you copy all my MOTOR settings too?
- loaded both configuration and script. changed calibrations according to my joystick, speedpot and sensors-

Check battery upper/lower limits as I am using 45V...
- upper limit chaged to 35v, lower limit to 14v

I JUST LOOKED. SEt under voltage limit to 14V on yours. Its currently set to 30 volts. It thinks your battery is flat.

graph claims that battery voltage is dropping to 13v as i move the joystick forward, then it is gradually rising back to 27.6V. if i measure battery directly at the same time with manual meter it shows 27.6V all the time. i have just loaded battery full.

[robnnorthaustin]

HOW are you powering this Roboteq ON?

Do the graphs work, can you see input and output?

Did you copy all my MOTOR settings too?
Check battery upper/lower limits as I am using 45V...


I JUST LOOKED. SEt under voltage limit to 14V on yours. Its currently set to 30 volts. It thinks your battery is flat.

It is amazing reading to try to follow this thread. You and Lenny are amazing guys to help the rest of us that attempt to better our chairs/scooters. Thank you both!

[Burgerman]

Well I don't know why or what you are doing.

My voltage drops barely at all.

Determine what is happening with a volt meter would be my first response. Do you have a latched Relay? Is it bridged with a heavy reverse diode and a precharge resistor? Is it CLOSED and so on? I suspect you have something wrong here. Do you have a fuse and breaker? Are these bridged and have a diode across them too? And blown/tripped?

Measure voltage INTO the roboteq, compare to batt voltage and then find the place where its getting "lost"...

[sepos]

voltage dropping issue located and handled.

Now steering seem to be working nicely, but forward&reverse is not.
I see all inputs from joystick working fine, but pushing forward or reverse seem to give too low impulse to motors.
Left and right make wheels to work as expected.

would this be something to be tuned from script?

[Burgerman]

Yes.

Or 101 other things. You must analyse what is going on. It may be roboteq settings. Input settings. Calibration. Script settings. Current sensor reversal. Script configuration or script acceleration/speed setting errors, speed pot or speed pot settings errors, etc etc etc etc.

Does it show that it should produce an output on the roborun screen? Turn, forwards and reverse? On input, and output? With or without script running?

>>>but pushing forward or reverse seem to give too low impulse to motors.

Low "impulse"? What is impulse? Narrow pulsewidth (low voltage, low acceleration?) ? Low Amps? You are going to need to be a little more descriptive!

1. Wheels off the deck. In ROBORUN, script off, then script on, what EXACTLY does it show. (input and output) when turning. When forwards. when backwards.
2. When driving.

[RichAC]

I am new to the forum but have been reading everything I can about converting a chair to a BM3. I am starting to gather parts for "the build" and I have discovered that the RC Switch: Electronize 48B-2W is not available. I was wondering what a substitute might be. Would the Electronize Type FR30HX Speed Controller work? Is there another that might be better?

Thanks Rich

[woodygb]

Your wasting your time with the Electronize controller it's simply NOT SUITABLE!

[Burgerman]

http://electronize.net/fr30hx_technical.htm

Seriously?
You are on a completely different planet there! WoodyGB didnt begin to describe the error!

You must understand the scale of the problem.
Read the viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2436 thread. All 88 pages and 1750 posts that are about 95 percent towards making the expensive and extremely capable and complex roboteq 2450 controller useable as a powerchair controller.

That will give you some clue as to the scale of the problem! And it would not even be possible with that controller even if it did have adequate power.

[RichAC]

Yes I have read all 88 pages of the roboteq build more than once. What I was referring to was a list of some of the parts that you (BM) published in Feb of this year on this thread. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4808&start=60#p65584 I do plan to acquire a Roboteq controller but that isn't all that is under the seat of the chair.

The part is called "RC Switch: Electronize 48B-2W" and I assume it switches the RC on and off. The Electronize website listed some other "controllers" and I made the assumption that the two parts did the same thing because the second part I mentioned would stop a runaway situation with loss of signal. What I was looking for was a substitute for RC Switch: Electronize 48B-2W. I plan to build this chair with or without your help. However I would like your help! I know that you didn't start out knowing everything and I humbly submit that I am very low on the learning curve. I think a gentler way of telling me how stupid I am would have encouraged me more. I am just taking my first steps on this journey. In the future I will have to word my questions more carefully.

My wife doesn't need a speed demon chair that does wheelies. I am building this chair for distance and to be able to get out into the woods again. I know she will not use higher speed unless she needs to fly across the street when a traffic light is changing.

Thanks for publishing all this stuff it really has been super helpful.
Rich C

[Burgerman]

That thing you linked to was a controller of sorts to drive electric motors. Well one motor. It does the same thing as the roboteq but without all the complexity or control or power. We both presumed here that you were planning on using it to try to drive the motors. Since that's its job and you didn't elaborate.

The part is called "RC Switch: Electronize 48B-2W" and I assume it switches the RC on and off.

The other thing under the seat, that I used was a RC switch. Just a relay that is controlled by a third channel on the RC system. So that in the case of a runaway while testing via RC, that I have a means of stopping the chair via the main latched contactor that switches all power to the main controller. So cutting off all power to the whole chair.

RC switch: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RC-Rx-Tx-Rece ... 43cae580bf Cheaper. Smaller. Simpler.

Any hobby RC switch with around 10A or greater capability can switch the latched relay that I am using.

[Burgerman]

I might add this. If you are planning on only going at normal chair speeds then you will probably save a ton of work, cost, testing, development and grief by using a mobility controller as stock and 24V. Unless you enjoy an interesting complex project. You can still use a large lithium battery and get double the range.

And...

If you don't need 16mph, which feels like 30! Then rather than 8.5mph motors on 45v a better efficiency balance would be say 6.2 mph motors, on 36V, as you would end up with the same range, with a 20 percent smaller lithium battery, (or around 20 percent better range) as well as more torque and control, and still have 9.5 to 10 mph if needed which is fast enough for most.

[RichAC]

Thanks for the reply. I plan to start with the battery pack and RC. Of course better wheels too. I am intrigued by the Roboteq system you have built. I know you, Will, and Lenny are getting closer and closer to perfecting the software. I am up for the challenge of a BM3-look-a-like chair but I may not need that on this first chair.

Rich

[Burgerman]

Then you dont need that relay, you need to contact woodygb as he now has a better RC interface thats all digital and just "plugs in" on most chairs. Wish a little surgery. I use one of these now on PG drives stuff.

The RC inteface is built into the Roboteq, but any programming errors or anything goes bad, and you get a runaway that you cant stop it without some additional means of doing so.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3790

[sepos]

Hi, again back to construction hobby:) Now I have managed to tune Roboteq so that left & right turns work well. Still confused with forward and reverse driving issues. Enclosed pics hopefully illustrating the issues: ie throt forward gives some power to only right motor. Nothing happens in left motor. Still Steer left or steer right give nice kick into both motors. Throt backwards is even worse basically nothing seem to happen with either motors.

Any idea which parameters to work with? I have tested quite many of them already, but no cure for this problem.

Steering right works nicely

steerright.gif (202.89 KiB) Viewed 4340 times

Steering left works nicely

steerleft.gif (209.14 KiB) Viewed 4340 times

Throt backwards not working

throtbackwards.gif (188.07 KiB) Viewed 4340 times

[sepos]

Throt forward not working.

throtforward.gif (191.42 KiB) Viewed 4341 times

[Burgerman]

Bit confused how you have serial, analog, and script all lit together.

But its impossible to figure our whats wrong online. You will need to examine in detail to figure out whats wrong.

Can be so many things. You may have the script configured wrong, sensors connected in reverse, or non bi-directional, or on wrong motors, joystick calibration or settings, even your wiring may be wrong. Resulting in crosstalk.

What does it do with RC input?
What does it do without script?
What does the INPUT signal show in both cases and with analog joystick?

If I was there looking at it I could figure it out, start at the beginning. One stick, no script, no current sensors, back and forwards only. By RC.
Then steer.

Then add script and set it correctly.

Then add analog inputs, one at a time. Lastly add current sensors.

[sepos]

.

You may have the script configured wrong

- I have used your script, with modifications to voltage settings (LowVoltsAlarm = 140 and NoLoadCurrent = 30) and sensor center values (from calibrations)

, sensors connected in reverse,

just tested by connecting both to opposite direction with no change

or non bi-directional

should be, at least that was claimed in web site where I ordered them.

, or on wrong motors,

I changed them, but did not have any effect

joystick calibration or settings

joystick is working fine as can be seen in earlier pictures. values are changing logically as stick is moved.

, even your wiring may be wrong. Resulting in crosstalk.

what do you mean with this?

What does it do with RC input

?
not using RC, this is just stuff from your configuration

What does it do without script?

forward and reverse not working at all and brakes are not opening (with script left wheel rotating), left and right work, but right wheel starts a bit more slowly than left wheel

What does the INPUT signal show in both cases and with analog joystick?

input signal from analog joystick is same with or without script, working as expected.
If I was there looking at it I could figure it out, start at the beginning. One stick, no script, no current sensors, back and forwards only. By RC.
Then steer.

Then add script and set it correctly.

Then add analog inputs, one at a time. Lastly add current sensors.

I think I will next try this.

[Burgerman]

For now, disconnect everything.

Connect only motors, and a RADIO CONTROL RECIEVER. Configure it, and calibrate it. Make sure you get left/right. And back and forwards CORRECTLY. Everything perfect, and working predictably. If not, go through every setting until you figure out what you have wrong. You cant go any further until this part works. Don't even connect brake.

Then try to do the same thing with the analog joystick inputs. When BOTH work correctly, then add other things, and test script.

Re-read the roboteq manual.

[Burgerman]

Before that, what does MOTOR COMMAND 1 and 2 alone do, on screen?

Turn should split the two lines apart. Forward should send them both up to the top.

Test that first.


Post screenshots.

[Burgerman]

Your left turn, and right turn graphs are also not working properly, the above and below centreline should be mirror images.

Which mix mode are you using?

[ex-Gooserider]

Uh, while you don't want to connect the brake to the Roboteq, don't you at least want to tie the brakes to the right voltages to enable them (so you aren't running motors with brakes engaged?) Alternatively pull brake coils off motors and let them hang separately....

Motors run with the brakes engaged, but doing so is like driving the car with parking brake on - sooner or later you get smoke and things start melting....

ex-Gooserider

For now, disconnect everything.

Connect only motors, and a RADIO CONTROL RECIEVER. Configure it, and calibrate it. Make sure you get left/right. And back and forwards CORRECTLY. Everything perfect, and working predictably. If not, go through every setting until you figure out what you have wrong. You cant go any further until this part works. Don't even connect brake.

Then try to do the same thing with the analog joystick inputs. When BOTH work correctly, then add other things, and test script.

Re-read the roboteq manual.

[sepos]

I use mixedmode2, which was in original setup

I don't have RCR, just analog joystick.

something in Roboteq is prohibiting to get power for motor 2 (also brakes are not working), while going forward or backward (here brakes are working just fine). Funny that it is working fine while steering left or right. I cannot find any configuration or variable which could be the reason.

throt forward

throtforwar2.gif (129.6 KiB) Viewed 4304 times

steer left

steerleft2.gif (131.35 KiB) Viewed 4304 times

[Burgerman]

Throt forward shows input to 1 channel and is reversed...
steer right shows a different input to both left and right channels.
And you should not have the THREE LEDs lit at the top at the same time.

You have something setup or wired or configured very wrong.

What does it show, as I said before without script?
Start at the beginning. Juts connect ONE input, NO script, get that input alone working properly...

Forwards should show BOTH lined go to the top.
Right (or left) should show both lines split apart totally symmetrically.

[sepos]

I tested to change command priorities. Just found out that, if I take rs232 and pulse to "none" and just leave analog as first priority motors are reacting better. if I use priority order: rs232, pulse, analog as in original script only motor 1 is working.

[Burgerman]

Get a RC system.

Then configure: DEFAULT settings.

Then connect ONLY RC system.

[sepos]

without script it behaves in similar way: left and right steering seem fine. forward and backward only motor1 is working. serial and analog lights are lid

[Burgerman]

THIS is what you SHOULD have set.

[Burgerman]

And this. With YOUR analog calibrations, (with some added headroom -- 20mV -- spare at each end so you don't hit the min/max safety stop!)

[Burgerman]

Script NOT running, ONLY Analog LED should be lit.
Script running, then Script, and Serial should be lit, NOT analog.

There should be no time where all 3 are lit.

[Burgerman]

Script running. ANALOG WORKING FINE :