S646se - Full LITHIUM Pack Project - First Attempt

[expresso]

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[expresso]

this is how i left it till i get the new covers the Red heat shrink is 3/4 - size - i though the 1 inch i had was big - but may not - i didnt have 3/4 inch in black - next cable i use the black 1 inch - i think should be good also -

hey - as bad is it may be - i am happy and proud that i actually got this far not bad from someone who never done any of this his whole life - couldnt have done it with you guys - so Thanks to every one

[Burgerman]

Nothing wrong with that. Its as neat as mine is. You are not a machine, thats as good as you can expect to do espesially as its a new to you.

Now the important part. Have you got the wires all in the correct places? If you plug one end into the charger, its marked + and - on the balance connector.

The - wire is really number 0 and it goes to the Negative end of the battery. Then every wire goes to the + side of the cells starting at 1 and ending at 8 (the plus end of the battery).

Dont get this wrong or the charger may be damaged.

So its (NEG)0 +1 +2 +3 +4 +5 +6 +7 +8(POS)

Follow these with your fingers, mark the wires with tape and write on them -0 +1 +2 etc. Do the same with the connector trace the wire, solder with them connected together so you are sure to get it right. Mark the battery end the same way.

[Burgerman]

Use contact adhesive inside the heat shrink before you shrink it that goes over the nylon mesh or it will pull out. I actually used adhesive lined heat shrink. Same thing. And used self amalgamating tape in places too.

[Burgerman]

I did not use heat shrink on the soldered parts. And advised you not to bother. Is that your probem?

In my metal shells, it all fits neatly, clamps up tight and very securely.

If you are worried about driving off while plugged in, you can use one or two of the unused pins for an inhibit connection.

[Scollard]

Looks good.

Notice on my backshell that the screw holes to put the 2 halves together are on the perimeter. This is important to make room for all the wires. I put the 2 charge wires side by side and had 5 balance wires above and 5 wires below. I then heat shrunk them all together and forced them into the opening. It would be impossible to do if the screw holes went through the interior of the backshells. I even have an extra balance wire because I have two 12V batteries each requiring 5 balance wires.

The heat shrink you used was too long. You just need enough to cover the pin. Your soldering is great and you're stripping just the right amount, you only need about 1/2" of heat shrink and maybe 3/4" for the power wires.

[expresso]

thanks - Ok i am relieved some now - well i though using the heat shrink would be an extra layer or protection being that its my first time - etc, -

its very tight in there to bend the wires - will try next cable - chair end - next week and no heatshrink - on the wires inside and see how that works out with the same cover i couldnt use today -

one way or another - i will get it done - same covers or the new ones i just ordered - it will fit for sure in those - i can spray one black for the chair end - or just wrap a nice tape over it -

I am 99% sure i got the wires wired correctly - i labled each wire before i cut off the end - and triple checked before i soldered them that i got the right one -

i started with black balance wire - Neg. power - 0 1 2 3 4 Pos Power
5 6 7 8


o balance wire is Black neg. 8 balance wire is Red pos -

i hope it dosnt blow up my charger when i go use it -

[Scollard]

We will check it with the balance battery tester you have once you make the battery side of the cable. You can plug the 2 cables together and then plug the battery tester into the balance connector. Then you just put a battery between 2 adjacent wires and see what the tester says. A battery between 0 and 1 should show as the 1st cell. Then you bridge 1 and 2 and it should show cell 2. You just keep going until you've tested each pair.

[expresso]

We will check it with the balance battery tester you have once you make the battery side of the cable. You can plug the 2 cables together and then plug the battery tester into the balance connector. Then you just put a battery between 2 adjacent wires and see what the tester says. A battery between 0 and 1 should show as the 1st cell. Then you bridge 1 and 2 and it should show cell 2. You just keep going until you've tested each pair.

You lost me here - not sure how i would do this - i cant picture it - i am going to finish up this cable and make the Chair end of the Cable finish it up - close it done - then you can explain to me better - or in a way i get it -

this is the only other item i have - which looks like more wires to add - if i plan to use this - i am not ready to add more wires on top of the ADD On with the BMS etc, - i would have to remove everything and start over which i will do but much later on maybe next winter

this is my reward with some wine - and out like a light for a few hours with some music

[expresso]

Use contact adhesive inside the heat shrink before you shrink it that goes over the nylon mesh or it will pull out. I actually used adhesive lined heat shrink. Same thing. And used self amalgamating tape in places too.

All my heatshrink is 3 to 1 ratio and adhesive lined - - http://www.amazon.com/X-Treme-Tape-TPE- ... ating+tape

is that what you used inside also - wrapped it around the wires - then the mesh over it ?

this is what i have right now - in black and red - - is it a good idea to use this when i make the chair end of the cable ? http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DVC ... ge_o00_s00

i guess this makes sense - to wrap the wires all together first and then the mesh over it - would the tape i have already be ok - the heat shouldnt bother it when charging ? its just to keep them neat together right ?

[Scollard]

I used adhesive lined 3:1 heat shrink at then ends of the mesh sleeve. You probably shouldn't use that for the wires inside the d-sub. If you notice, when you shrink it the rubber actually get thicker. You need to use just regular 2:1 heat shrink on the inside pins.

[expresso]

I used adhesive lined 3:1 heat shrink at then ends of the mesh sleeve. You probably shouldn't use that for the wires inside the d-sub. If you notice, when you shrink it the rubber actually get thicker. You need to use just regular 2:1 heat shrink on the inside pins.

i see - didnt know that - i only have the 3 to 1 - if i can find some and get it here quickly - i may do that and use very little - short - if i decide to use it - i may not bother with the big wire at all and just the small ones or none at all -

but i have a question which i dont know why i didnt see this before - IS there any reason why the Larger outer pin is used instead of the large inner pin ? the Power cables - black and Red - i use Black for the single large pin end

the other end - i followed every one with the Red wire on the last large pin - but why not use the other large pin - instead and then the wire wont have to bend as much ? and leave the last outer large pin empty instead ?

of course it has to be match the other cable also same way - i didnt think of that - between doing it that way - very short or no headstrink - i think it could make it with the connectors i have which i couldnt fit on the cable i just made -

i ordered more that will fit for sure - since its for a flat cable to exit so its wide - will have to lay the cables flat heatstrink it flat - - maybe use a little double sided tape to hold it together better if i feel its not a good fit -

i will give it a little trail run on the extra cases i have and wire - will put it together with out solder - will tie wrap the power wires together - or can use the little clip it comes with - which i think thats what its for - to hold all the wires together before the exit -

if i can get both power wires to fit nicely that way - the balance wires - i can tie wrap also and lay them on top of the power - tie wrap all of those and then heatshrink - will dry test it tomorrow that way - - and worse case - i have the extra plastic ones i just ordered -

[Scollard]

Either pin is fine, just so long as you do the same pin in both connectors.

[expresso]

Either pin is fine, just so long as you do the same pin in both connectors.

thanks - if i realized this before - - between that and the heatshrink i used for sure didnt help - now i have to decide if i can make the Chair end the same way to make the cable i already made -

Or i can do it over - i can cut the wires off the cable i just made - and do it over - would be a little shorter but its fine on the charger end -

i will see if i can do it the same way if i dont use the same heatshrink - much shorter - - i kinda feel i can get it done if i make those small changes and use the covers i have already - if i do manage to get it done - i guess i can RMA the ones i just ordered - they shipped already - but i will still need one for the cable i made already - unless i do it over -

i missed that little detail - about the large empty pin -

[Scollard]

You just have to move the red wire. Just cut off the heat shrink and desolder the red wire. You just have to heat it up until the solder melts and then pull the wire out. Tin the other cup and resolder.

[expresso]

i was thinking about that also - but that heatshrink is pretty good which makes it pretty hard to remove i can try that i guess -

i still wont be able to fit the cover on that cable - will have to use one of the newer ones i purchase with flat wire exit - but at least if i can manage to use the covers i have that way - i can then make the chair end of the cable to match -

maybe i should try it - cut the heatshrink off and try to resolder in the other cup -- but first i will do a dry run with new connector - cover and cables - and if i can make it fit then i try to change the wire over -

if i cant get it to fit either way even if i did change it over - then i wont bother -

ok thats a good idea - i do the dry run with a new set of - but not solder anything - - if that works - then i try to change the wire over -

[Burgerman]

Why does it not fit?

http://www.dtl-connectors.co.uk/store/m ... ze-25.html

These are similar to mine. Theres nothing in the way, just fits neatly.

[expresso]

your right - its excatly the same cover -

its a very tight fit - the way i ended up with my cable - it dosnt fit - - now i will try it again with out nothing and just a dry run - not connecting nothing

tomorrow will take the two power wires and stick them in the cups take the balance cable and put it in there as if its made - tie wrap them together and see if i can make it fit close the cover etc, -

if that works - then i know how to do it - i am curious and will try both cups - outer cup and if too tight - will try the inner cup to see how that works -
i would have to say its got to be easier to not use the outer cup for the large wire and use the closer cup -
would make the wire more straight and better chance to make it fit - wont have to bend it as much -

it was my mistake to use that large heatshrink and its 3 to 1 - which i didnt know would make it even thicker - - all adds up and no matter how i tried - its not going to fit in the way i made it -

so i will just use a different cover for that one cable - but first will see which pin is best to use for the chair end cable - i may have to try to move the large wire over to the closer pin - so it can match the chair end cable i make - depending which way i can make it -

if i can make it to match the current cable i made - ok i can leave it alone then - if i cant make the chair end cable the same way - but can make it if i use the inner large cup - then i have to move over the large wire to the inner cup also

or make a whole another cable from scratch if that dosnt work out - those are my options - and last one is - if i cant get it no matter what - then have to resort to the same covers with the flat exit which i have on the way now - they are plastic though - -

[Burgerman]

Get rid of all the heat shrink. Bend the large cables. It all fits fine. You dont need heat shrink.

[expresso]

this borthered me - i had to check it first thing this morning and YES i think i can do it now - i did a dry test - But it was much easier if i used the inner large pin instead of Outer pin - so i may just do it that way -
if i do use any heatshrink - it will be the 2:1 simple and very short - on the balance lines only maybe - i mean very short -

i may not do the larger wires at all - all that was missing in the pictures is the heatshrink on the exit side to hold the Mesh Loom etc, - but should be a really nice tight fit once thats added - the power wires fit perfect on the exit side by side -
and i will put the balance wires wrapped tight over the top part - heat shrink that -

should work - even if i may be able to put the large wire on the last outer cup - just makes it harder for me and theres no reason i cant use the inner cup making it easier for me and i am pretty sure i can get it done that way - so thats they way i will do the chair end cable -

now before i do the chair end cable - i will make it 3 feet long - - how much room should i give the balance wires ends with out the Mesh loom over it ? about a foot ? so i can connect to the battery or should i leave a foot and half free ?

thanks -

[expresso]

You just have to move the red wire. Just cut off the heat shrink and desolder the red wire. You just have to heat it up until the solder melts and then pull the wire out. Tin the other cup and resolder.

very good scollard - thanks - sometimes its the very simple things - right in front of you that you miss - i over did it with the heatshrink but it would have worked if i had at least just used a very very short heatshrink- now i know - to use the normal heatshrink 2 :1 no glue inside - very short - would have been fine - or no heatshrink i just feel better knowing its there - i feel like its an extra layer or support - just enough to cover the very end of the cups - thats it - not going past the cups would have worked out - and i may have even been able to leave the Pos wire on the outer last cup instead of moving it over now - but when i dry tested it -- its alot easier to deal with leaving the outer cup empty instead .
thats how i will do it from now on -

i will move the Pos wire over - so this is not a total waste - the cover will be different for this cable - but from now on - i can use what i intended to use before and will do it for the Chair End Cable this way -

[expresso]

thinking back now - No idea why i didnt do a dry run to test it first - i was so concerned about the soldering part - lesson learned -

i guess i will RMA back the new covers - once i receive them - may check one only and keep it for this cable -

[Scollard]

I split my balance wires on the top and bottom. Five balance wires are not as wide as the 2 charge wires. By putting the charge wires in the middle you keep them at the widest part of the opening.

[expresso]

I split my balance wires on the top and bottom. Five balance wires are not as wide as the 2 charge wires. By putting the charge wires in the middle you keep them at the widest part of the opening.

will try it both ways - which ever way works best - at least i know it can be done using the covers i intended to use first - i see what you mean - the widest part is in the center -

about the Chair end of the cable - after i fix this cable and move the Pos wire over to inner cup instead -

i will start the chair end to match this one -

i would use the wires i have in black and red - dosnt matter which color - ? i figure i use one red and the rest black ? will label both ends once i figure out where they go -

will add the ring terminals on all of them - and use the copper ones for the larger wires - - 3 feet of wire should be more than enough -

how much should i leave exposed at the ring end of the wires ? one foot - enough for the balance wires to have room to connect with out being too tight ?

or a bit more than a foot ?

[Scollard]

You will probably have to test it out. Add the loom after the fact. You should be able to thread the wires through the loom with the ring terminals on. Therefore you can measure before you put all the wires in the loom.

[Burgerman]

Use one of those 36 inch extensions.

Your 9 balance wires on to the battery need to go to the small white connector that matches the ones on those 36 inch extensions... So you can unplug the battery and remove it from the chair. Same with the charge wires, they go to an Anderson on the battery. Your CHAIR side of the SubD will have just 6 inches of cable, and 1Anderson, and one PL8 type balance connector.

Look at my green chaiir pictures.

download/file.php?id=4301&mode=view note that I have 2 connectors. Because my battery is in 2 halves. And no anderson fitted in the charge wired yet.

[Scollard]

I think you're confusing things BM. This is for the full pack. The 9 balance wires and 2 charge wires go to the chair combo Sub-D. It will be a full 3 feet or what ever is needed to get from the battery to wherever it's mounted on the chair. Then the cable he just built will go between the PL8 and the combo Sub-D on the chair. No Anderson's anywhere.

[Burgerman]

Nope. I am not. The chairs SubD stays bolted to the chair if you remove the battery. The battery itself needs a balance connector much like a hobby pack, And a charge connector too. So these stay with the pack. If not it means taking the charge leads and connector off the chair if you remove the battery.

You can get away without but its a bit less professional. And everytime you fit or remove a battery the charge connector will need removing from the chair. In most cases thats bolts, cable tied wires etc.

[Scollard]

Ok. I wasn't thinking that way at all. I just attached the Sub-D directly to a bracket on my scooter. It's just 2 tiny screws on the front of the Sub-D connector that is attached to a stainless bracket. I hope to never have to remove the battery. At least not for many years. But if I do, it's just 2 screws to release the Sub-D connector. It's still 4 connectors to disconnect the two 12V batteries from the scooter.

Well that complicates things. That's why you said he needed 3 balance wire extensions.

[Burgerman]

Yep... Although you can just use 1 on the chair if you make the two "ends" the middle if you see what I mean.

Doesent really complicate it. Cut 36 extension in half. Plug it together, then treat it as a bit of cable you would have used anyway.