S646se - Full LITHIUM Pack Project - First Attempt

[expresso]

Ok - its a good thing you mentioned that BM - i was going to make it the same way Scollard did - i didnt think about removing the pack - and if i did - i would have to remove the SubD also - which i am not sure yet how it will be mounted - but will have to be with velcro and tie wrap to hold it down -

SO - if i understand correctly now - from the Sub D combo - i will use one of PL 8 balance cable - - and two charge wires going to a SB50 - the balance cable will connect to another balance cable which will have the ring ends going to the battery pack - another short leads with SB50 end from the battery pack - they both get connected to the SubD combo

Thats just to charge and balance with the PL 8 -

Now i will need to also make another short leads with SB50 from the pack going to my Main Chairs power - and will add the cable i have already made for charging will use to extend the pack if i wanted to add the ADD ON also -

the balance wires and charge wires on the battery can be short - less than a foot - - just enough - since the longer wire with the SubD combo end will be 3 feet ? or maybe i can make that 2 feet - just enough to snake it inside -

i have to measure - i will hook the charge cable on one of my Lock down location on my chair right over the rear wheel - how i will secure it there - i am not sure but can only think of velcro and tie wraps - its not the best way but - as long as it stays put -

i would need - 3 Sb50 connectors - 1 going to the main chair power - one from the battery going to the Subd combo to charge -


now the other thing is - do i have to connect of this on the same Cells ? - i know the balance wires go to there correct location - the charge wires go to the pos and neg - to the chairs main power - and the other SB will also use the same location ?

under one of the Cells - i will have one balance wire ring - one ring to the main chair power and another ring to the Subcomb D -- same for the other side - -

that leaves me one last set of wires to add the external ADD ON if i want - those rings would go to the same spots also - or can i put them on the other side of the pack - in the correct location ?

[expresso]

well not thinking about that - the extra cable i have for the external ADD ON - i would have to cut those rings off - Add a SB50 there also - then another set of wires with SB50 end on the battery end - same as the subD -

i didnt think of that - - that already has a fuse in there 30A - it was for charging - i can leave the fuse there - just cut the ends off - add the SB50 and reuse it - i like to add that to the left side of the pack - and the subd for charging on the Right side of the pack -

can i do it that way - ? or if i make a new cable to use for adding the ADD ON also - do i have to add a fuse or can i do with out ?

[expresso]

Use one of those 36 inch extensions.

Your 9 balance wires on to the battery need to go to the small white connector that matches the ones on those 36 inch extensions... So you can unplug the battery and remove it from the chair. Same with the charge wires, they go to an Anderson on the battery. Your CHAIR side of the SubD will have just 6 inches of cable, and 1Anderson, and one PL8 type balance connector.

Look at my green chaiir pictures.

download/file.php?id=4301&mode=view note that I have 2 connectors. Because my battery is in 2 halves. And no anderson fitted in the charge wired yet.

yes i think i get it now - but my chair side of the Subd - may need 2 feet to snake it inside so its not exposed - - no more than 2 feet -since it just has to make it inside - then gets connected to the battery end of the cables -

i can do the battery pack side - 1 foot - the Subd side 2 feet - or less - would work - i really only need 2 PL 8 extension cables - or 1 cut in half like you said - if thats enough for me

[Scollard]

You're probably going to need a little more than 1 foot at the battery side for the cables. You will have to try it out once you have the battery put together and see what is the longest run. Not a big deal, I get what BM is saying. We can cross that bridge when we come to it. I guess you will have to put the making of the 2nd and 3rd cable until after you have the battery built. That's OK because you have already determined you can make the cables so all is good. You will need 2 Anderson's for making the power connection. We will cut the 36" balance connection once we figure out the length at the battery side.

[expresso]

You're probably going to need a little more than 1 foot at the battery side for the cables. You will have to try it out once you have the battery put together and see what is the longest run. Not a big deal, I get what BM is saying. We can cross that bridge when we come to it. I guess you will have to put the making of the 2nd and 3rd cable until after you have the battery built. That's OK because you have already determined you can make the cables so all is good. You will need 2 Anderson's for making the power connection. We will cut the 36" balance connection once we figure out the length at the battery side.

Ok so i shouldnt make the Cable yet then - wait till i get the pack together and then make the cable last -

i need two Andersons - one for the Charge cable i make and the other for the Chair Main power - ?


but i also need one more Anderson for the other Cable i want to attach to connect An ADD ON if i wanted - really 4 Andersons - the side of the Pack where i connect all the wiring is on the Right side - thats the side of the chair power main is -

the left side is where i would like to connect the other cable just to connect the ADD ON if i wanted - Can i attach this Cable to the Left side of the pack ? i would still get the correct volts there ? it dosnt have to be all on the Right side all in the same Cells ?


Now with that cable for the external ADD ON - i was going to use a Cable i already have on the chair for charging with a Fuse already on it - 30A -- Can i reuse this Cable - just cut the ends and add another Anderson on the cable where the Rings are now - and another Anderson on the Battery left side for that cable only - ?

its a stiff Cable - the wire - - if i decided to make a whole new cable - using the silicone wire instead - do i need to put a fuse there again if using it just extend the pack with a ADD ON - it wont be charging on that cable - or can i just make a cable with no fuse there - ?

SO right now - i am just going to wait till April and start to recharge the Cells and start to build the Pack - ?

thanks -

[Burgerman]

Ok so i shouldnt make the Cable yet then - wait till i get the pack together and then make the cable last -

Make it. 10 to 12 inches long? With one anderson, one balance connector. Then once battery is built, make the other half.

Once made, plug the other half of the balance connector in, and leave it long untill you know how long it need be. And same with anderson, make that too, but leave it long for now.

[expresso]

Ok so i shouldnt make the Cable yet then - wait till i get the pack together and then make the cable last -

Make it. 10 to 12 inches long? With one anderson, one balance connector. Then once battery is built, make the other half.

Once made, plug the other half of the balance connector in, and leave it long untill you know how long it need be. And same with anderson, make that too, but leave it long for now.

Ok so i make the Battery end of the cable - Anderson and balance with the rings - the Chair end which i solder the connector to - i just make one end which connects to the Battery side - then once i have it in the chair i can see how long i need depending where i put it -

i dont see any other place other than - will snake it out of the battery area out the chair on the right side and going back to place it under the lock down mounts the chair has - velcro it there and tie wrap it - not sure how good it will stay -

i think it be fine to say put - only when being plugged in and out - i think best to hold both ends - will take a picture - unless i get other ideas - which dont involve more work - cutting things or welding etc, to make a mount - that i wont be able to get done -

i need more Andersons - i was thinking of getting the Blacks ones - my chair main is Black - i figure i can use Black for that one - keep it the same - and gray ones for the cable i make -

but theres a small chance they wont work ? i keep reading about it has to be the same color - but i know they make the same SB50 in many colors that can all work together -

these should work for the Gray SB50 i have ?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-GENUINE-ANDE ... 3a911d0a5c

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-GENUINE-ANDE ... 3a6ff829ea

i have to check the Main connector that it actually snaps together - i am pretty sure its the same as the gray ones i have - and should snap - but its black and i havnt tried to snap anything in there -

will get more 8 AWG wire also for these connections -

i have the gray ones - from that link - want to get the black ones - they should work together ?

also - will get all 8 AWG - i was able to use the 12 AWG wire in there also - doubled the end of the wire - with solder in there - crimp and torch it - worked fine -

[Burgerman]

i dont see any other place other than - will snake it out of the battery area out the chair on the right side and going back to place it under the lock down mounts the chair has - velcro it there and tie wrap it - not sure how good it will stay -

You may need to slide out battery before you unplug it?

Grey and Black, are interchangable. At least all mine are. Andersons, as I have said before, need to be bought in packs of 20 or so as its cheaper... And somehow they always get used. I have bought at least 3 packs of 20 so far!

For the charge lead you could use the small XT60 or bigger XT90 connectors. Cheap, gold plated, work well at high currents.

[expresso]

Yes i do have to slide it out to get to the connectors to unplug - wont be doing that yet - i need someone to do that for me - which i will to check a few things and remove the Charge Cable i have there now and decide if i can reuse that one or make a new one -

i will get the black SB50 and another pack of gray

i dont find them in 20 packs -

shouldnt i just keep it all Andersons ? now that i finally able to make the Andersons crimp and solder it - i add the red handle on it also to make it easier to pull apart - for the person who may have to do that -

the xt90 - i would have to solder it on and headshrink over it - ? no crimping ?

they are cheaper to buy - thats for sure - - i may just buy some XT90 and see how it looks - are they hard to snap together and take apart - are they as secure as the Andersons ? i feel like the andersons wont never come apart - unless you pull it hard apart -

[expresso]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Pairs-XT90-B ... 1314438406


i may just get these and use them on the Battery end and the charge cable end ? i can use them on the other cable also that i need to attach for the ADD ON - - that cable already has a Anderson on one end - so will leave that -

cut the wires - rings off the other end - add the XT90 there - -

its cheaper than getting more Andersons thats for sure - but just smaller phyiscal size which makes it nicer to fit in the Chair - i would need to solder - and heatshrink but dosnt seem harder than what i have done already with the 12 AWG soldering ?

i would have to tin the ends also first to solder to the xt90 - where on the Andersons - i didnt tin them - just stuck it in there with solder and some flux - - crimp - heat and done

[Burgerman]

Yep.

[expresso]

Yep.

Ok now that i have a few different ideas - and ways to do things - i was stuck with one way in my mind - but now - i see a better way for a better end result

the Battery pack will have all the connections it needs on the pack and able to be removed back and forth with out removing anything else - just unplug and pull out

thats good - and now since i can see that working better - i also think i will use either the XT60 or XT90 for the battery pack and cable -

i want to use the smaller one XT60 - its smaller size which means i may be able to snake differently - where the Anderson is larger and i was limited to the side exit of the battery area - near the motor and back -

i have to see - maybe i cant do it even with the XT60 - but i have a better chance because of its size - and it still can handle just as much as the Andersons at 60A and 90A for the XT90 - -

only thing is if i can fit the 8 AWG wire on the XT60 - it may be too thick - but i can always just trim the ends of the wire as much as i need too and leave the rest alone

or use 10AWG wire - ?

would using 10AWG be fine enough ? the PL 8 cable is 12 AWG and thats fine - so cant see why not 10AWG ?

i would just make another Anderson to go to the Chairs main power - and the rest i can use one of those XT connectors -

and looking at the chair now - i can see a much shorter cable also - i may be fine with a 2 foot cable since its now going to be a two part cable anyway -

[Burgerman]

only thing is if i can fit the 8 AWG wire on the XT60 - it may be too thick - but i can always just trim the ends of the wire as much as i need too and leave the rest alone

You dont need 8 gauge wire for charging. Look at the size of the 40A charge leads on the safe/fused charge leads. This is for charging only.

You cant use XT60 / 90 for powering the chair. That must be anderson.

[expresso]

only thing is if i can fit the 8 AWG wire on the XT60 - it may be too thick - but i can always just trim the ends of the wire as much as i need too and leave the rest alone

You dont need 8 gauge wire for charging. Look at the size of the 40A charge leads on the safe/fused charge leads. This is for charging only.

You cant use XT60 / 90 for powering the chair. That must be anderson.

yes the chair main is going to be Anderson - the charge cable for the chair - i can use either xt - how bigger is the 90 over the 60 in size - also i been reading that some say when they go to solder it - it melts the plastic ?

how true is that - some are cheaper made than others -
http://www.amazon.com/Yueton-Female-Con ... 6ZWZQR3V18

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GTG0KT0/ref ... CEET&psc=1


http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0118XSYVE/ref ... 8A7I0DIYL6

which brand is good - i see different brands - colors also

[Burgerman]

I just bought a pack of 50 on ebay... Nothing melts if you plug them together before soldering and are reasonably quick. Easy to do.

90s are about under 1 inch wide.

https://electricfatbike.files.wordpress ... cf0361.jpg

[expresso]

yes i was reading that - someone said to do that -


i hope i can be fast enough to solder and not melt it -- i see different colors -is there a difference in quality that you are aware of ?

also i seen some saying - they were wired wrong in the reviews ? not sure what they mean - but if making a cable - dosnt matter which is red or black wire - as long as both ends match -


should i get a few XT60 or XT90 ? can i solder the 12awg smaller wire in the XT90 also - even though its better cup size - should be fine ?

[Burgerman]

Case is marked plus. battery side is the smaller plug that goes inside the other.

These are the non battery half.

https://electricfatbike.files.wordpress ... cf0361.jpg

Either size will be fine for charging. 90 is bigger but better. Your choice!

[expresso]

ok sounds good - i will get a few of the XT60 and make a cable see how it works out - the smaller one goes on the batter and stays there -
the larger is on the charge cable end and plugs in -

i can use 10 or 12 AWG for this - the charge cable is 12AWG anyway -

would you say they are harder to pull apart as the Andersons or about the same ? because if it does have to be removed or unplugged etc, - someone else would be doing it- mostly a female - so on the Andersons i added the T handle that helps for that

but with this type - and being smaller in size - would it be harder to hold grip and pull apart - as compared to Andersons ?

[Burgerman]

Easier but hard to grab because smaller.

[expresso]

ok - i see -

what about this antispark connector - - some have a anti spark xt60 etc and some dont -

any reason not to get the antipark kind ?

how can i know a cheap knock off or the Real ones ?

[Burgerman]

The antispark is so that when you connect up the capacitors in a speed controller charge slowly and prevent arcing. That isnt a problem for you. KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid).

Cheap v Good? No idea! They all seem OK that I have.

[expresso]

ok - no antispark - i seen pics -- that show 12 AWG fits best to solder to the XT60

xt90 for larger wire - - i am thinking of the otehr cable also which i want to add to connect the ADD on if i wanted - that shoulid be at least 10 AWG i think

12 AWG seems thin

[expresso]

Ok here is where i am thinking of snaking the charge cable to -

dont mind the Dust - its been sitting for a while covered on top but dust gets everywhere -


so the lock down location - i was thinking of placing it right under it - velcro it to that and tie wrap it somehow to make sure it dosnt fall off while riding

and the cable was going to go in the side battery box area which is exposed open -

if i can figure out a better way - i will try it - using the XT60 makes it easier to snake in there and maybe somewhere else - i dont know how i will get it to stay put
i dont want to wrap tie wraps around the frame to hold it there - looks ugly then - i think -

[expresso]

I got those XT60 connectors in today - and WHOW - i didnt expect them to be so small in size - they are rated to 60A which is more than enough but surprised since its so small - the largest wire you can fit on those are 12 AWG - those cups seem smaller than the connector cups -

the plus side is that they can be snaked in the chair better for mounting the charge cable - the cable would for sure have to be at very most 2 feet - and then connect to battery side which may have to be a foot at most there - or less

would need enough slack to pull the try out with out problems so maybe one foot on the battery side

i would have to wait for sure at the end to make this cable - and most of the others - the cable i did make which didnt fit the covers - will have to redo - my new covers didnt work and had to RMA them back - so i have two options - redo the whole think or cut the wires and use a new connector - the cable will then be shorter - maybe 2 feet instead of 3 - on the charger side

i may just do that for now and leave it alone - alot of though has to go into this - any suggestions - ideas are welcome -

thanks

[expresso]

Ok i finally finished the First Cable for charging - the charger end - i decided to just cut the wires off the first connector - and ended up with a shorter cable - i used a new connector and everything was fine - i can do this now up till the very end when i have to close it up - that worked also but - i was not able again to close it if i used the heatshrink to fit under the exit of the connector - that did not work for me - i just cut the heatshrink enough to close the cover with out it there -

i added graphing tape as you can see - its not pretty - not the best looking cable - but i saved it at least and this will say connected to the PL 8 all the time once i start using it - i also know for the next cable how i will do it - i will use the graphing tape to hold it all together past the exit and then heatshrink it right up to the exit of the cable but not going inside - i think thats the best i can do - the heatshrink i have 3 to 1 with glue lined - seems to be thick wall - and not able to close the cover if i use it inside -

i may make another one in the future a bit longer maybe just to have a spare ready - in case - for now i am going to hold off on any more cables till i get the pack done and know for sure what cables i need to make - size - and AWG to use etc,
things change as i progress -

i did order a few XT90 connectors also - just to see which can work for me best -

here are the pics - i wish i could have done a better job - but just getting it in the case was a good feeling

[expresso]

pics

[Scollard]

That looks fantastic. I think you are good to go now. Cables are no problem.

[Burgerman]

Do another battery side one for the addon, then you can charge both lithiums properly. And the lead at the same time (hopefully)

[expresso]

That looks fantastic. I think you are good to go now. Cables are no problem.

thanks - it was a job for me - yes i did it much faster to solder and add the wires - i can do this - now the harder part is just to add the sleeving and heatshrink - - i already have a idea for the next one - will be nicer looking i hope - but i am fine as long as it works -

[expresso]

Do another battery side one for the addon, then you can charge both lithiums properly. And the lead at the same time (hopefully)

Yes i was thinking that - and i will do it - i am not sure when i will - i have to remove the whole thing and i have everything to start over from scratch - connectors blocks etc, - will have to make a Anderson to connect to the Chair Lead

and another Charger cable like the one i just made - and thats it - IF it can be charged in one shot as one with the LEAD - that be great - worse case - i have to disconnect and charge just the ADD ON first - - make a cable for just the LEAD - anderson to PL 8 - and charge that next -

i would like to do it one shot - but hey - i do either - i dont want to touch the ADD ON just yet - may drag me down if i run into any issues - when i am done with the full pack - i redo the ADD ON - maybe the BMS will fix itself once i start using the chair daily and charging daily -