60ah ADD ON build with Pictures

[Burgerman]

That shows your lithium was fully discharged. And say 55Ah from it. And about 15Ah or less from the lead only! So a diode would give you an easy 20% range increase.

[shirley_hkg]

Don't know how much you've paid .

Taking this CALB 60Ah cell @£12.50 an example , I wouldn't complain to get a 24V-55Ah pack @£100.00.

It costs even less , if you choose other unknown brands.

I won't take lead any more , even if they were given for free , let alone a £650.00 pair of MK gel out of my own pocket .

[expresso]

That shows your lithium was fully discharged. And say 55Ah from it. And about 15Ah or less from the lead only! So a diode would give you an easy 20% range increase.

i will order it from the link you gave me - once i get it - i can solder it inline on the Pos. wire thats the ADD On Cable from the pack to the Chair ?

[expresso]

Don't know how much you've paid .

Taking this CALB 60Ah cell @£12.50 an example , I wouldn't complain to get a 24V-55Ah pack @£100.00.

It costs even less , if you choose other unknown brands.

I won't take lead any more , even if they were given for free , let alone a £650.00 pair of MK gel out of my own pocket .

yes thats a Great deal - on my next ADD ON - which i may want to make for my new chair -

would you be able to find me some ? size would be a factor - those are too thick - ideally i would need 30mm thick - to fit right in my box - something about 30mm x 130 x 190 would be perfect fit - 75ah Cell this time around

[expresso]

Any 50 to 100A schottky diode.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vishay-VS-100B ... m570.l1313

Free shipping from UK?

Ok done - i ordered two of them - worth a shot - 20% more range - that wont be bad - what does that translate to ? 5 miles extra or more ?

i just worry that it fails when i am out there far - i wont know and then would be running off lead alone - or if it fails while i started and once i realize it - - may be too far out there to make it bad on lead alone - i like to see how much more i can get this way

[Burgerman]

Not sure. But we will find out!

[expresso]

Not sure. But we will find out!

looks like i am the test subject here -

[Burgerman]

Nobody tried this before. So we dont quite know what will happen. For the first few miles you need to monitor the temp of the diode. As it will get hot. To run at high power continuously like up a hill, is the hottest it will get. I think the cables will be enough of a heat sink though. But I am guessing. Its safe to 170C water boils at 100.

You are tester. Did you order a silicon or a schottky diode?
Its small, you will need small ring terminals.

[expresso]

Nobody tried this before. So we dont quite know what will happen. For the first few miles you need to monitor the temp of the diode. As it will get hot. To run at high power continuously like up a hill, is the hottest it will get. I think the cables will be enough of a heat sink though. But I am guessing. Its safe to 170C water boils at 100.

You are tester. Did you order a silicon or a schottky diode?
Its small, you will need small ring terminals.

Ok wait now this was never done before ? if i knew that - its ordered now - but i have no way to monitor this - once its on - its in my back pack thats it - i am on my own - maybe this isnt a good thing after all -

i ordered the one from the link you posted from UK - - i got two of them - but by the time they arrive may be 20 days - so not anytime soon - and now i am worried if theres no safe cover for it - can i heat shrink the whole thing like you would a fuse etc ?

i will making an adapter with xt90 one end and SB50 other end - and this in line - - thats how i have it now - i can then just replace with new one with this installed inline - long story but this Cable i had was my first one made and had both sb50 ends - Since i have changed over to using xt90 for other reasons - i had to make an adapter to use this cable or make a new cable - - nothing wrong with the cable so i left it and made adapter instead -

Schottky is the one you posted - i ordered that one

[Burgerman]

Heat shrink? If it stays relatively cool (not too hot in use) and no damage.

[expresso]

when i get this thing - i will ask you how to proceed - i cant leave it fully exposed if it gets HOT - it will be in my back pack on top of other things etc, - not a good thing if it gets hot to the point where it can be dangerous -

not sure how i would test it - the large hills are not close to me - by the time i test it on a hill - i be far from home - cant have it fail then -

i though you guys done this before ? maybe i heat shrink it and wrap it that tape i got to wrap the pack with - ?

if it needs to be exposed to have Air keeping it cool - maybe a fuse holder to snap over it - if i can find one that would fit , or work etc, ?

[Burgerman]

I never had an addon other than as an experiment. Just to play with for a couple of weeks. It works, but I rather fitted a full pack.

I have used a diode - several at once - on one occasion, because I was using a hobby lipo 7S to get me to the pub and back when my lead wad knackered and discharged. A fast setup with wires twisted together etc. why? Because lipo is all the wrong voltages - too much. Anything for a . It worked. No time to charge.

[expresso]

ok - i try it - i just want to be safe and sure i do it right and have to cover it somehow - i cant leave it bare on the wire - depending how small is it - maybe i just solder it in the line and not use screws ? or not a good idea ?

for me which ever way is easier i will do - as long as its correct best way etc, -

[Burgerman]

I would use terminals. They will soak away heat. But soldering could work if you do it fast.

[expresso]

I would use terminals. They will soak away heat. But soldering could work if you do it fast.

ok terminals then - do you happen to know the size or kind i need - ?

i would solder the terminal to the wire and ring on the diode end - then heat shrink over the whole thing

both ends are different - does it have to be added in a certain direction ? or dosnt matter

[Burgerman]

Yes but thats easy. Wrong way, no power flows. So you will soon know. Your lead will run out...

A diode is a one way valve for electricity. Lets power go one way. But nothing flows the opposite way. They are used to turn AC into DC for example. Or to prevent a device getting connected in reverse causing damage. The only problem with them is that they lose a little voltage. But thats useful here!

A silicone diode loses about .65v. It loses a little bit more as the Amps increase.
A Schottky Diode is the same. But they are good at high frequencies which we dont care about and good at high currents which we do. They drop between .2 and .4V. Usually around .25 at idle to .4 under load.

So will allow the voltage of your addon to be around .3V less after the diode. So the lead will get used a little more as the voltage drops. At the end of your run, when the lithium is at 3.1V the battery will be .3v lower. Does this matter? Yes, you will use a little more lead. Maybe not much. The .65 to .7 drop from silicone diode will use more lead.

There are lots of types of diodes. Laser diodes, germanium diodes (.2 drop) and the LEDs you see lit up everywhere, etc.

[expresso]

ok - i got the one you linked too - you said that can make 20% difference in range for the better give or take ?

you would know which end to attach it ? i dont want to do it wrong and run on lead only

[expresso]

ok - i can just heatshrink the metal parts and leave the Main body alone and it would be safe ?

the easiest way to do it for me now is to put it inline in the bag - so its safe to leave it exposed the main body only - ?

in this pic - the xt90 thats not in use there - thats where i will have an adapter from that xt90 to sb50 end - and will sit in the bag on top there somewhere

that would be the best way for me to add it -

have you had any issues where it failed on you ?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vishay-VS-100B ... 2749.l2649

which end goes where ? Neg. wire not Pos wire ?

thanks

[shirley_hkg]

when i get this thing - i will ask you how to proceed - i cant leave it fully exposed if it gets HOT - it will be in my back pack on top of other things etc, - not a good thing if it gets hot to the point where it can be dangerous -

not sure how i would test it - the large hills are not close to me - by the time i test it on a hill - i be far from home - cant have it fail then -

i though you guys done this before ? maybe i heat shrink it and wrap it that tape i got to wrap the pack with - ?

if it needs to be exposed to have Air keeping it cool - maybe a fuse holder to snap over it - if i can find one that would fit , or work etc, ?

I did it for years . Twist a few of them together to allow bigger amp . Just warm to touch . Long way to get my finger burnt .



Shield the wire ends only so as to expose the diode bodies to open air for cooling . You can put it outside your bag , near the chair's end .

Prefer to put it in the NEG path that it won't have sparks , in case getting in contact of metal .

Worried still ? Put a 20A rocker switch , in parallel with the diodes , to cancel / bypass it anytime .

[expresso]

i wont have it for a while - shipping from the UK - when i get it - i will post a pic how i would do it - and wait for input on how to proceed

the link i posted is what i ordered - will use one of them only - on the Neg. wire - question is which end goes where - in which direction i put it i mean

do you still use them with your ADD ON packs or you dont use ADD ONs any longer ?

[shirley_hkg]

I have add-on .

They have bms inside for protection , so it's different to your case .

[expresso]

I have add-on .

They have bms inside for protection , so it's different to your case .

Ok when i get the diode - you guys can walk me thru it

thanks

[shirley_hkg]

Your new add-on is pretty good actually .

It will out last your P220se .

RELAX , and enjoy it.

[shirley_hkg]

If it were in the NEG wire , the end with silver strip should towards the battery .

[expresso]

Your new add-on is pretty good actually .

It will out last your P220se .

RELAX , and enjoy it.

thanks - your right - cant complain - even if i get 55A out of it - its very decent for a lead chair - happy with results -


the diode i purchased is this one -

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vishay-VS-100B ... %7Ciid%3A1

which end would be facing the ADD ON pack ?

[expresso]

Update on these cells -

Ok as you know i got one weaker Cell - its not too bad - i got 30 miles out of the pack with lead etc, -

I want to say this - DONT buy from the seller i got mines from if anyone is looking to purchase Cells -

i reached out to the seller - explained about the bad weak Cell etc, - asking for either an replacement Cell or two - or a refund for the cell - etc,
hes not believing me and saying i am making trouble for saying they are not good etc, - he asked for proof - i showed him the charging graph - the first one actually - he didnt know what it was and said i was making this all up -

ok moving on - i started a dispute with Paypal - to ask for partial refund or replace the weak cell - the seller is not responding to Paypal - so cant get this resolved other than - Paypal says - they will refund me all my money but i have to return the the order back to China - and of course at my expense

thats not going to happen - makes no sense for me to do that - i explained it to paypal - they will try to reach out again to try to get a replacement Cell at least - but dosnt look like its going to happen -

i just want to warn you guys - its tricky when dealing with overseas and flakey sellers - etc, - its a gamble -

I am going to keep them of course - i keep an eye on them - if i see Cell 3 - the weak one getting worse over time etc, - i may just try to buy another one same size etc, if i can even find one - but not from the same seller - thats my last resort - if it stays the way it is now - its fine i can do Ok with 30 miles for now -

[expresso]

i was in a bit of a rush to get this going because my Main chair died and i needed something for the rest of the summer - lead alone or even 30ah ADD On wasnt cutting it for me -

at least this 60ah pack made a big difference -

if my main chair didnt die on me - i wasnt rushing to buy anything and wanted to get some from Shirley - since i wasnt in a rush when i first wanted to do this - but then it became a rush - so this is the outcome -

[Burgerman]

Condensed version:

"My full lithium chair died, so was in a hurry to build a bigger lithium addon for adequate range to enjoy summer using my old lead backup chair. So couldnt wait for shirley."

You are using up all the letters on the internet, and causing a shortage!

Seriously I know what you mean. I live for summer, and hate winter. And think about this, I just spent the first half of it stuck in bed AGAIN... Worse still, I think shaun's gone mad.

[expresso]

thats correct BM

it was a life saver so far -

i would still like 8 more from Shirley - no rush now but at least 75ah -

[Burgerman]

I considered making one with a BMS (Spits) for dummies, about 20Ah, so its tiny and light, Could be made with Lithium Ion 18650 laptop style cells since it can be unhooked and thrown away in the event of any problems! You are not sitting on it. And be say 10S and 36V. And obviously not connecting directly to the chair battery as such. But building a 12A, 27.0 Volt CHARGER into the pack. So that it can safely plug into the chairs XLR socket, and charge the chair at up to 12A as and if required. This is less efficient, as a charger is only 90% efficient at best. But it will make a very compact addon that charges the chair as needed during the day.

Why?
Because once built, you can charge it at home with a dumb charger. And ANYONE can use it. On any standard chair. They would plug it in the XLR, turn it on, and hang the light battery over the rear of the seat in a bag. But it will only last around 500 cycles.

That would give a 50 percent boost in a lead chairs range safely, to anyone. As long as they stop for a few minutes now and again during the day, the chairs battery would be topped up all the time, so should stay pretty well full at first. Been thinking of the best way to do this for a while. DC to DC CC/CV boards are available on eBay.

You could lend one to your freind with the nose heavy evil steering pride rival in your videos!