PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

[Burgerman]

So, assuming height clearance isn't the issue, then you get two rows of cells, 135mm x 2 = 270mm wide(10.63"), well under the BCI width of 2 G24 batteries which is well over 13".

I'd like 16 of those cells myself. 150Ah, and I can fit in any of my chairs.

So you need 16. 8 is little use. Barely better than lead. And I see no way.

Do me a drawing. I see no way. I cant fathom your thinking or layout. A group 24 battery like the MK is exactly 259mm long. And in many chairs uses flat top terminals. 200mm tall. And 173 wide. And fit exactly. https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j ... mw&cad=rja

[shirley_hkg]

You said you have 340*260*190h , right ?

You can put 15 of them inside , and the 16th on the outside . I'm sure you can retrofit it beautifully .

[Burgerman]

Correct.

I cant do that. Its not elegant! Been trying to figure a way to do it by laying on side or something. But they will not fit many group 24 chairs.

I could fit a set into a different chair though with a bigger battery area. How much would that be for 16 to the UK?

[shirley_hkg]

It is £18 a piece net .

I am told that there are more couriers willing to ship lithium now . I will find that out , if you are interested .

[Burgerman]

please! May not be possible on that chair, but shame to miss out on the price...

[expresso]

BM - i have my spare indoor chair only which i notice the lead starting to go - i say another year - if they can fit or even any other kind of lower cost cells - even at 75ah total is fine - since this chair never leaves the house

my MK Gel in there are not flat top - have the post on it with a hole for the bolt and screw - my layout is different in my chair -P222 - one battery sits straight - the other sideways - if i can make two 12V batteries - and connect them in series

would be perfect for me and cheaper than me buying new lead for the chair -

i would like this idea for a winter project one day - would they fit ?

[Burgerman]

If you have the height, yes.

[expresso]

If you have the height, yes.

the height i would need cant be more than 9 1/4 or 9 1/2 - the 105ah pack fits perfect so not over that height would work for me - they would have to fit sideways also - for the cost of $18 each - i would have to make two 12 Volts and connect them for 24V

i would consider others also - as long as they fit in the same space - for about $200 to get 8 of them - sounds very good - i would have to plan this out first - if it has the connectors - screws etc, - all the extras - not in a rush though - i need to get my main chair back working first

[Gnomatic]

A group 24 battery like the MK is exactly 259mm long.

8 of these cells = 29mm*8 = 232mm. Well under the length of a single G24 battery.

And 173 wide.

So 173mm*2 for two G24 batteries sitting side by side = 346mm. To rows of these cells 135mm*2 = 270mm. Again, well under the width of two G24 batteries sitting next to each other, longest side to longest side.

And in many chairs uses flat top terminals. 200mm tall.

Your spec sheet for MK G24 w/ flat terminals says they are 209mm tall. BCI chart says 225mm tall with full terminals. All my chairs can accommodate G24 bats with full sized terminals, and still have a bit of head space. These cells are 215mm tall, so no problem for me.

[Gnomatic]

If you have the height, yes.

the height i would need cant be more than 9 1/4 or 9 1/2 - the 105ah pack fits perfect so not over that height would work for me - they would have to fit sideways also - for the cost of $18 each - i would have to make two 12 Volts and connect them for 24V

i would consider others also - as long as they fit in the same space - for about $200 to get 8 of them - sounds very good - i would have to plan this out first - if it has the connectors - screws etc, - all the extras - not in a rush though - i need to get my main chair back working first

You would need 16 of these for 150Ah. They are 215mm or 8.46" tall. So almost a full inch shorter than your current 105Ah pack. Plenty of room.

You would have more free space in your battery area in every direction with 16 of these than you do with your current 105Ah pack.

[Burgerman]

And cheap. But lower C rate. The added capacity almost makes that unimportant. But CV charge time will be slower. And likely need an extra hour or so.

You could use double sided tape to position them and duct tape to wrap into a block. Or two blocks.

[expresso]

this is sounding good to me so far - if i can get them to fit - this maybe i will put in my P222se chair which i have the ADD ON now - if i can fit 16 in there

giving me 150ah - thats great - dont mind charging a bit slower - remove the ADD ON and use the ADD ON on the indoor chair instead - would last forever that way -

i would then have two long range outdoor chairs - - i would need to make 12V packs - and then connect together - the layout on the 222 is different

what about the hardware - buss connectors - screws etc, - can we get them with the batteries when ordered ?

is anyone looking to make a order ? maybe can explain how i can order them - i would hold on to them for now till maybe the winter time

i am so used to doing this with the headways - now with these a bit different layout - i feel like i dont know what i am doing again - connections - etc,

[Burgerman]

The terminals are not that strong on prismatic. So clamping them together becomes important or you get damage if anything moved over a curb etc.

So stick them together, and use about 16 x 2s (32) ring terminals! And you are good to go. As for the "proper hardware" that would work too. But I know nothing about it.

Or how to possibly order them!

[expresso]

thats a problem for me - i cant make things like you guys - if something dosnt work - you and others make it work one way or another -

i need to have all the hardware that works - not looking to do like the tires - where i though it had it under control and now i am all over the place to figure it out

if i can get the hardware that works for sure - what ever connectors are needed - screws etc, - then maybe i can consider this for real

i want to take it slow now before i embark on a new project - i make some mistakes with the tires planning etc, - now its costing me time money and frustration - i am about to abort the whole thing - go back to what worked and save it for another day - winter time maybe -

[Burgerman]

And I expected it. Tries to explain about CG and sensitivity, and so on. But nobody listens!

But. Batteries are easier so just do it.

[expresso]

i am fustrated because its summer and i need to use that chair - taking too long to figure out - wasnt suppose to work that way - first chair went great
didnt expect these problems - rear tires not fitting was the worse i was expecting - this is far worse - i havnt decided but i may just scrap the whole thing and try a different tire 300-8 - black - but in the winter maybe - anyway wrong section for this -

back to batteries -

this does sound good to me - i just need to be sure of the details and connecters if i really do it - and figure out how to purchase them from those sites - havnt a clue -

if i can make two 12 Volts packs - 8 cells each pack - and connect to make 24V - all fit in the chair - that would be great - then i can have a 2nd long distance chair ready to use - now with the ADD ON is great but only good for 20 to 25 miles at best - -- -

i feel limited with it as my only chair - since i cant use my Main chair till i fix the tire issue

[expresso]

i am fustrated because its summer and i need to use that chair - taking too long to figure out - wasnt suppose to work that way - first chair went great
didnt expect these problems - rear tires not fitting was the worse i was expecting - this is far worse - i havnt decided but i may just scrap the whole thing and try a different tire 300-8 - black - but in the winter maybe - anyway wrong section for this -

back to batteries -

this does sound good to me - i just need to be sure of the details and connecters if i really do it - and figure out how to purchase them from those sites - havnt a clue -

if i can make two 12 Volts packs - 8 cells each pack - and connect to make 24V - all fit in the chair - that would be great - then i can have a 2nd long distance chair ready to use - now with the ADD ON is great but only good for 20 to 25 miles at best - -- -

i feel limited with it as my only chair - since i cant use my Main chair till i fix the tire issue

[Gnomatic]

is anyone looking to make a order ?

I'd like a set of these as well, expresso. But we need a way to order and get to the US,

It is £18 a piece net .

I am told that there are more couriers willing to ship lithium now . I will find that out , if you are interested .

Shirley, if you are willing, can you find a courier that will ship to US? And if you are willing, would you be able to assist with purchasing these cells from Taobao?

[shirley_hkg]

I'm working on shipping overseas now .

[snaker]

I see these 8x120Ah cells fit BM's battery box.
L = 8x4.3cm = 34.4cm
W = 18.5cm
H = 18.5cm
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=534 ... oSite=main

[Burgerman]

Nope!

[Gnomatic]

I'm working on shipping overseas now .

Thank you!

[expresso]

BM - On my chair with Lead - MK Gel and the 36ah ADD ON - when i recharge - how much Cap in should i be seeing if i ran it down almost fully

lowest Cell shows 3.069V - etc, - just about the end - showed as 22 miles - i have done 25 miles last year - down to Orange - this was lost greens only -

i been adding back about 55 to 57Ah when recharge - i am thinking its the lead which were used a year at least alone before i added the 36ah to it -

its 3 years in total i think - cant remember now - i am waiting on new set of lead - i would think with new lead - this would take me 25 miles in the green -

i feel the lead in this chair is about half dead now - shouldnt i expect to see more Ah returned if the lead was new ?

[Burgerman]

BM - On my chair with Lead - MK Gel and the 36ah ADD ON - when i recharge - how much Cap in should i be seeing if i ran it down almost fully

Ideally with healthy both, you would return about the full lithium capacity, and a little over half the lead. So say 40 Ah plus 36 lithium.

lowest Cell shows 3.069V - etc, - just about the end - showed as 22 miles - i have done 25 miles last year - down to Orange - this was lost greens only -

i been adding back about 55 to 57Ah when recharge - i am thinking its the lead which were used a year at least alone before i added the 36ah to it -

Seems about right. Maybe too many pizzas! Ir you got used to it!

its 3 years in total i think - cant remember now - i am waiting on new set of lead - i would think with new lead - this would take me 25 miles in the green -

i feel the lead in this chair is about half dead now - shouldnt i expect to see more Ah returned if the lead was new ?

Its hard to say. An old tired battery takes more Ah to recharge usually. Its less efficient. But maybe you or the chair are using more.

You have a PL8. It can accurately measure Ah. So test the lithium. And then the lead seperately. And each battery one at a time. How? Another thread! And then you will have accurate Ah discharge capacity data! To compare to new spec. Even lithium wears out./ Especially small hard worked add on packs.

[expresso]

thanks - i am getting new lead very soon - i am looking to do full lithium if shirley can get those cells which fit same size 24 battery - at that price - i will get them and hold till i have time to do it - and remove the add on after - since i will have 150ah inside the chair - if all goes well -

with my luck lately - not too sure

[shirley_hkg]

Bigger pie for pizza lovers .

IR 0.5 -- 0.6 mΩ ， 85.02AH at 0.5C discharge rate .

170AH , ,same price , G24 size still .

[expresso]

whow - that sounds great - If it really fits in a group 24 battery size - has to fit - no room for error with the chair i want to add this to -

would be amazing to have that much range - i can remove the 36ah ADD ON - remove the lead and replace with 16 of these - sounds perfect
but whats the catch - ?

if its all good - i would be interested in 16 of them - also i am sure Genomatic would be also interested -

are they OLD - USED etc ?

what about hardware to connect them ?

i love pizza

[shirley_hkg]

Door to door service to UK at £8
/kg

[wilsonintexas]

It has been a while since I was here. Been in Alaska helping my daughter. Her spinal cord stim wires broke, and the operation to put in new ones did not go well, ended up taking everyghing out. Hope to try a new one soon.

Anyhow, I am thinking of a new project, which is an electric bike conversion. She has 2 big dogs that need exercise, and my knees cannot take peddling the bike.

I thought that I could catch up on this thread and see what the latest recommendation for building batteries and charges was. There are plenty e-bike conversion kits out there. and they need ether 36 or 48 volt battery packs. I am not space restricted. (I built some heavy duty "training wheels" since my balance is not as good as it was, and as part of that I have a nice platform to place any battery pack I want.

I have spent a while reading this thread, and am a little confused (as is the normal situation for me, )

I wonder if it is possible to create a thread (or set) that would be something like BMS Recomendation on (LIPO CELLS), Chargers, ...... and maybe lock otu the discussion..... (keep for other threads)

Right now I am looking at 140 pages trying to figure out the latest battery thoughts, and I still need to look at chargers.


I understand that it is never as simple, that there are if's and..... and but(s)

BUT

I wold find it nice to see the lastest BM recommendations,

[Burgerman]

Theres no one recommendation. Just lots of choices. And priorities and it all depends...

What do you need to know?

Lipos? Burn violently, very energy dense, extremely high C rating, last about 50 to 200 cycles depending on how much you lean on them.

So I wouldn't use those. Great in my quadcopter, but throw away after about 100 ten min flights or less sometimes..