S646se - Full LITHIUM Pack Project - First Attempt

[flagman1776]

No, you mis-understood or I was unclear. The fuse is only in the lead between the charger & the cells.

[expresso]

ok got it - i am sure i misunderstood - i have so much going thru my mind - so much info - all new - just excited to do something now -

[calabash]

Shirley..

Sorry I am a bit late....

I had to stay in London last year, disabled room, ground floor, £65 per night in a travel lodge, which is very cheap for London.

If I was you I would stick to looking at the hotel chains, some good deals with good size rooms for the chair, BUT they will have carpets!!!

Hope it helps a bit, and that was in central London!!!

[Irving]

very good - you know much more than me and i live here in NYC i never bothered to look -

Shirley those are good prices if you ask me - if you really do decide to visit here - and you find a place - if its close to me - i can go take a ride there to check it out for you also -

Had 5 days in NYC in October... see review here: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5066#p72797

Hoist/shower chair hire from HomePro Medical on 718-437-1003, www.homepromedical.com

[Burgerman]

Carpets?

[Irving]

Carpets?

Yep, all hotel rooms I've been in have carpets, except one serviced apartment.

[shirley_hkg]

Thank you ,calabash & Irving , for your valuable advice .

[expresso]

Carpets?

Yep, all hotel rooms I've been in have carpets, except one serviced apartment.

I read your review of your Trip here to NYC - and all the BAD parts of your trip here etc, - are right on the nose - i can see that happening very easily - its a pain in the ass - every step of the way - glad you made it thru and enjoyed your stay

i visit the shows every now and then - and like you - they offer no discount for my PA - Personal Assistant - but the shows are great -

[expresso]

Scollard - i sent you a PM -

i am about to place the order

just a once over - tell me if this is correct before i do -


Purchase details is as below,


58 pcs 40152s,15ah heaway cell with 68 holders and 58 two hole connecting plates
35 four hole connecting plates of 40152
8 pcs 38140s, 12 ah heaway cell with 8 holders and 7 four hole connecting plates

thanks - i want to place it tomorrow and get started by March hopefully

[Burgerman]

Add on. Personally I dont see any advantage or any point to making that have anothr 8 cells, and heavier/bigger etc. Since you are fitting a full battery anyway.

Full pack. Count how many joiners you need very carefully. I always do, and always sure I am right. And always end up getting another load!!! And I think expresso is extremely brave going for this when he cant solder, has never made up a cable etc. I hope it turns out well! But I think it will take him a lot of time and practice to make a charge cable that is professional and well made. And wouldnt be surprised if he ends up doing it several times.

One warning. It isnt usually a problem but it is possible to damage these hobby chargers by connecting all the cells up wrong on the balance leads. So be sure you *understand* where they go and why they go there.

It helps to look atr the Charger balance port. Look at the plus/minus marked on that port. The plus goes to the end of the battery where the red/positive wire goes. The Minus goes to the same end as the minus batter charge cable. The other 7 just follow the sequence between cells.

[expresso]

Well - the extra 8 cells for the ADD on - will help keep me going with out worry for Sure - even though the 2 roll is OK - i think enough maybe - but hey why not make sure it will be - now the full pack is going on the other chair - not the same chair as the ADD ON -

i though about the extra weight also - and space - but i can make it work - and the extra 8 Cells will just make me wheelie more - which is a good thing at least once i get used to how it handles - since its already a different feels - i have to adjust to it - once you adjust to how it handles - even better - i may be using the P222se with the ADD ON more than i may use the the other chair with the full pack - its a little more fun - its narrower a bit - lighter chair - and seems very nimble quick - i like it -

the full pack chair - is nice and much softer to ride - smoother to control at times - its heavier - has the seat lift - title etc, - which by the way the seat lift is Great - comes in handy - yesterday at post office - i had to use it all the way up to reach the counter and do my bussiness -

and most important - to get off the chair - its used to stand up right up - two different chairs - both great in there own ways - but i dont wheelie much with the full pack chair - so its a different feel and i use the chairs depending how i feel that day - also i like to keep it new if i can - and use the older chair first -

[expresso]

Ready to start charging -

Will be using preset by BM for 150ah pack -

[Burgerman]

What exactly are you charging?

You have a preset set up for 1S but single cell. Or 2 max. In parallel.
You have one set up for ADD ON pack with cell balance 8S.
You have one set up for 150Ah that needs cell balance wires for 8S.

If you need to charge 150Ah all connected in parallel you need to set the 1S pre-set changed to say 30A charge. Because that one will not ask for a balance cable... And termination changed to either: Manual setting 900mA or to C/20 Auto. With a 1 or 2 hour max CV time limit.

[Scollard]

What exactly are you charging?

You have a preset set up for 1S but single cell. Or 2 max. In parallel.
You have one set up for ADD ON pack with cell balance 8S.
You have one set up for 150Ah that needs cell balance wires for 8S.

If you need to charge 150Ah all connected in parallel you need to set the 1S pre-set changed to say 30A charge. Because that one will not ask for a balance cable... And termination changed to either: Manual setting 900mA or to C/20 Auto. With a 1 or 2 hour max CV time limit.

I thought you sent a preset for a 1S 150Ah pack with a 200 mA termination. Which would correspond to a C/750 termination.

[Burgerman]

Yes I remember now. Long slow initial soak to bring all to 100%. But it will take a long while.

Once all are balanced and done a couple of charges theres no need to go to 200mA. Charge can end when balanced and a bit less than an Amp if you want. Its best to do a complete charge initially.

For what its worth the charge can be set to C/20 as this is 1/20 of the charge current. (incorrectly in my opinion..) Rather than of capacity. So a 20A charge will end at around 1A for eg or a bit less...

[Scollard]

Yes I remember now. Long slow initial soak to bring all to 100%. But it will take a long while.

Once all are balanced and done a couple of charges theres no need to go to 200mA. Charge can end when balanced and a bit less than an Amp if you want. Its best to do a complete charge initially.

Ok, I get it. C/750 for really good saturation and then you can go C/20 once you have balanced the pack a few times. Different on the Hyperion which determines its own cutoff termination current.

I'm on my 2nd overnight discharge/recharge. So far it is balancing pretty quickly at the end of the charge. I'm going to do one more overnight discharge and then do a store charge. Do you think it's OK to store at 80% because it will take twice a long to store it at 60%.

[Burgerman]

Dont store by choosing store. Its voltage based and will only work on lipo or li Ion. Just discharge by 20 to 30% of capacity. If storing for months then at 60 to 70% charged based on Ah. Its not at all critical on LiFePO4.

[Burgerman]

Different on the Hyperion which determines its own cutoff termination current.

Its about C/10 of charge current.

[expresso]

Just about done - i a decided to keep going - finishing up - will have 50 done soon - last 8 Cells in the morning - will change the Termination to 160 from 200 for the last 8 Cells and then store -

still cant get the data graphs - i looked around - dont see anything to save data graph - will double check manual when i get a chance -

[expresso]

What exactly are you charging?

You have a preset set up for 1S but single cell. Or 2 max. In parallel.
You have one set up for ADD ON pack with cell balance 8S.
You have one set up for 150Ah that needs cell balance wires for 8S.

If you need to charge 150Ah all connected in parallel you need to set the 1S pre-set changed to say 30A charge. Because that one will not ask for a balance cable... And termination changed to either: Manual setting 900mA or to C/20 Auto. With a 1 or 2 hour max CV time limit.

I missed something ? i have 4 presets you sent me - and i am using the one for the 150Ah 10P - theres no balance wires attached - in the preset - its not set for balancing

Hope i charged them all correctly now - ? this preset is set for 20A charging - it didnt ask for any balance cable -

[Burgerman]

I had forgotten the 4th one.

[expresso]

Ok - i got worried - all good - done - storing now - till first week of April - will start to get my other things in order slowly - and finish the ADD on - Change the batteries to MK Gel - and be done with that - during the next month -

[expresso]

Ok - i started to practice with the Balance cable - for the PL 8 etc, -

here are some pics - its not great at all - but its my first time - i will do each day one connector for the rest of this week to get a better angle on it - first wire was 16 awg - too big - i then used the actual wire i need to use 22 awg - better -

[expresso]

pics

[expresso]

last

[ex-Gooserider]

Tolerable for a start, but you need a LOT more practice - that is not a connector I'd want to use, even with shrink tube over the solder joints.

Either you are stripping way to much insulation off the wires, or using way to much heat for to long and melting the insulation... In a properly made joint there should be no more than the conductors diameter of bare wire showing between the top of the solder cup on the connector and the insulation on the wire, preferably much less...

The best method I have found:
1. Find the length of an empty solder cup and make a gage to tell you just how long to trim your wires (with much practice you won't need this, but do it for now...)
2. Take the empty connectors, and fill ALL the solder cups about 3/4 full of solder - do not wash off flux...
3. Strip the wires to a little more than the length of your gage, tin them and cut off the excess length so the exposed conductor is the length of the gage.
4. Heat the previously filled solder cup with the tip of the iron, and when the solder melts, stick the tinned wire end in. Continue to apply heat just long enough to let the solder in the cup to flow into and bond with the wire. You can see this - the surface of the solder pool will go from being pushed down and bulged out to smoothly flowing onto the wire...
5. Remove flux and examine... A good joint will have smooth shiny solder flow, and the solder cup will be about 95% full - not blobbed...

Shrink tube should be optional - there should not be enough exposed conductor that it would be possible to bend adjacent conductors enough to make them short...

Teflon insulated wire is much more heat resistant than poly insulation, so it is easier to solder. Downside is that it is harder to strip...

ex-Gooserider

[expresso]

thanks for the tips - i didnt expect this to be correct - first time ever - i actually didnt think i would even get this far on the first try -

Ok - i think i get it - but the flux - - not sure where you want me to put it - on the wire and tin it first - the same size that it will sit in ?

once they are tinned and ready - you want me to add solder in each connector pin the wire will go in - and leave it - or i can do that first either way

then place the tinned wire on top - hold it - heat it and melt around and thats it - will try to get that tomorrow -

when you say remove flux - i dont get it - where is the flux i have to remove ?

[expresso]

the larger wire 12 AWG - would do the same way ? or is there a trick to larger wire - etc, -

thats more worrisome for me - being larger - will do it your way tomorrow - hoping to improve each day i try - i have about 10 of those connectors - i hope i dont need more before doing the real one -

[LROBBINS]

Electronics solder almost always has a flux core, so even if you don't add a paste or liquid flux (often useful, especially for wires and connectors that have sat around oxidizing for weeks or months) there will be some flux residue left after soldering. On small joints like that, if you solder them correctly as Goose described, the flux really is pretty innocuous, but you can remove it. Some fluxes are water soluble, most are not. For those, you can use an old tooth brush and some denatured alcohol, or, for a quicker job, a spray can of a commercial flux remover (many are toxic and flammable - read the directions).
Ciao,
Lenny

P.S. on some thread here, I don't know which, there are pictures of a DB connector properly soldered. That's what yours should look like. Any roughness on the surface of the solder is a sure indication that the joint was not properly done - it should flow and wet the metal like water that has a bit of detergent in it, no bubbles, no roughness.

[Burgerman]

http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/ds ... older.html Look what I found!