Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

[Burgerman]

Tubeless is much less likely to deflate if a nail or something goes in. Around 20x less likely according to the dunlop website when introduced in cars. Think tube, pop like balloon. Or think that any hole is stretched by pressure and air escapes. In a tubeless tyre the hole either keeps the nail, so blocking the hole, or if pulled out in many cases just closes up again and never leaks. Or leaks very slowly. So the constant puncture problem largely dissapears.

[Scooterman]

What would be the next width size down from 120mm?

Burgerman might be best able to answer the following question. Does the Salsa need wheel spacers to enable the fitting of all aftermarket nicer wheels and tyre combos. For example if I was to fit 4" wide tyres could you get away with not having spacers? Just curious, it would give me something else to consider...

There are no suitable in between sized tyres. Other than the 110/80-8. And that is a slightly larger diameter. On a salsa that will hit your plastics...

As for wheels, a spacer of 8, or 12 mm is already used on the stock rims depending on 2 or 4, and 12.5 or 14 inch tyres. After you throw this away, only the 3.5 wide aftermarket rims fit with a home made adapter. The 2.5 wide ones mean no room for spacer or adapter.

How about either of these?

NB: Now (due to your patience) I understand a bit more about tyre sizes how about these two as additional options to consider? I just need to mindful about getting on buses, it's one of the reasons I'm buying the chair.

https://www.oponeo.co.uk/moto-tyre-details/heidenau-k75-4-00-8-55-m-front-rear-tt#182318819

https://www.oponeo.co.uk/moto-tyre-details/heidenau-k75-3-50-8-46-m-front-rear-tt#185027393

[Scooterman]

The caster rims are 4 x 1.75 and rear ones are 8 x 1.75

It obviously doesn't mean that the rear tyres are 1.75 x 8, because tyres are always slightly wider than the rims. So I'm guessing OEM salsa rear tyre is 50mm or 2" wide. So 2.0 x 8

or: 50/115-8 for my chair which gives 2.25" + 2.25" + 8" = 12.5"

and 50/150-8 for your chair (from factory) giving 3" + 3" + 8" = 14"

NB: Now I understand a bit more about tyres sizes I'm guessing the above the sizes.

In general, what is the percentage tyre width that is put on a rim? For example is the tyre width that you should aim for say 125% of rim width?

[Burgerman]

It depends... And the rim needs to be wider in general the lower the tyre profile is.

[Scooterman]

It depends .

8'' rim has 3 widths ; 2.5 , 2.75 , 3.5 . Offset will determine thickness of spacer .

Plate size & mounting holes are indifferent .

Will these tyres fit on shirley's 3.50 x 8 rims? And give an overall chair width of 25.25"?
https://www.oponeo.co.uk/moto-tyre-details/heidenau-k75-3-50-8-46-m-front-rear-tt#185027393

And I could stick these on the front?
https://allterraintyres.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1087_1241_1251&products_id=91538

Cheng C248 tubeless

Although a bit concerned that at 10.5" dia they might foul castor fork throat?

[Burgerman]

Will these tyres fit on shirley's 3.50 x 8 rims? And give an overall chair width of 25.25"?
https://www.oponeo.co.uk/moto-tyre-deta ... #185027393

No... You need 120/70 tyres for a 3.5 rim.

And I could stick these on the front?
https://allterraintyres.co.uk/index.php ... s_id=91538

You could but those are the wrong kind of profile/shape. And a little big. You need smaller to help miss centre footplate. You need the ones I linked to earlier.

[Scooterman]

You could but those are the wrong kind of profile/shape. And a little big. You need smaller to help miss centre footplate. You need the ones I linked to earlier.

Thank you for reminding me of the earlier link you posted, sorry I must have missed it

The following will be the last question until the middle of next week when the chair arrives, otherwise I'm going to really try your patience.

You need 120/70 tyres for a 3.5 rim.

So can I put a 3.5" tubeless on a 2.5" rim? The aim of keeping the chair a bit narrower for previously mentioned public transport access.
https://www.oponeo.co.uk/moto-tyre-details/heidenau-k75-3-50-8-46-m-front-rear-tt#185027393

[Burgerman]

Yes. But as already mentioned the 2.5 rim will not fit. Unless you can make adapter plates 0 mm thick. And the tyre is too tall.

[Scooterman]

Yes. But as already mentioned the 2.5 rim will not fit. Unless you can make adapter plates 0 mm thick. And the tyre is too tall.

I wondered if you might say that. I vaguely remember you mentioning something along similar lines earlier on in this thread?

I'll leave be thinking about rims and tyres for now. I'll wait until the chair arrives then concentrate on moving the seat back and sorting the centre footplate assembly. It's probably because it'll be my first powerchair and I'm concerned that I won't like using it with solid tyres especially. So will want to swap the solid tyres for pneumatic ones as soon as possible. Thank you for your patience and answering my questions.

[Scooterman]

The biggest advantage of tubeless tires is that they are almost immune to punctures, add some off-road sealant and you can push a screwdriver through without losing air. Those tires that John is using are expensive, but they are highway tires and will last a lot longer than anything made for a WC.

Thank you. I noticed that the tyres had a much higher speed rating but didn't realise they would last longer than mobility tyres.

[Burgerman]

The rear tyres take most of the weight once you set the chair up properly. Say 70/30 or 80/20 - Instead of around 50/50.

The rear are the most important, as they support you and the weight of batteries, and drive you. Road going tyres, tubeless, are a much stronger construction, and put more rubber on the road, so last longer. Fatter means they sink less on softer ground. Front casters need to be high quality, as these are too small for the job by neccessity as they must turn, not take too much space, allow a centre footplate to sit partly between and miss by mm only. Allowing the seat to move back. These are not tubeless. And wear faster. Much faster!

[shirley_hkg]

I like that £40 3.50-8 tyre with 2.75'' rim .

John , is it possible to turn the rim inside out , and re-do a valve opening ?

[Scooterman]

I like that £40 3.50-8 tyre with 2.75'' rim .

John , is it possible to turn the rim inside out , and re-do a valve opening ?

I like that idea too. Blank the existing valve hole with a (bolt - fibre washer x 2 - nylock nut). Then drill new valve hole?

[Burgerman]

Its better to drill new valve hole and leave the old hole with a valve too.Astheres no room for nut/bolt. And it will look terrible. And the tyre will hit the plastic trim, which will need spacing upward or something. As for spacer/adapter measurement thickness you are on your own.

[Scooterman]

Ta Da! the chair arrived. I'm really pleased with it considering it was purchased unseen and it's in good condition, apart from the swing away footrests that are bit scratched and a wonky footplate (there's some nuts and bolts that need tightening). But rover220 is sorting me a centre footplate. Plus I don't know what the batteries will be like? They're 60Ah and the seller said they were replaced and year ago and kept fully charged. How truthful that is I don't know, hopefully they might see me through the summer as a occasional use chair.

It'll do for my first 'learning' powerchair. I'll post my thoughts about it and the bits I'd like to change/alter later on this evening.

I uploaded some photos here: https://flic.kr/s/aHsky54HUh

[Burgerman]

1st thoughts. With the control pod mounted like that you will need to have your arm snapped and reset with a Z in it to be able to drive! And they are all like that... So major arm surgery required ASAP! Or take a look at my pod position.

2nd thought, those rear tyres are rediculously tiny... Front OK for the moment.

3rd thought. https://www.flickr.com/photos/50805221@ ... 950166548/ seat seems to be miles further forwards than mine, and it appears to already be adjusted to the rermost positiuon. You will ned to take a good look at how that is different to mine.

4th thought. You will never hit a doorway even if the joystick is moved to where it needs to be untill programming sorted out.

5th thought. The batteries are 60 rather than 80h. And probably some cheap junk that was made in china! I wish you luck!

6th. thought. Otherwise not bad. Barely used. But needs a few large adjustments! The seat will need exploratory dissasembly to figure out how the seat is attached to the lift. And moving rearwards!

[Scooterman]

Thank you I will reply properly later or tomorrow morning

This is a photo of the seat https://flic.kr/p/FHMcia

[Burgerman]

Thatsjust an easy to remove cover. Use the lift, and remove the cover, undo everything... see how it all bolts together. Seat needs to sit further back. Theres always a way. Even if it involves a drill. But likely it doesent!

[Scooterman]

Theres always a way. Even if it involves a drill. But likely it doesent!

I agree, I think so too. I sort of overdid today so am suffering a bit, but I'll remove the cover tomorrow and take some more photos.

Re the armrests, as you've mentioned before they're not really strong enough to put any weight through. I was wondering whether I could T-mount a chunky piece of flat steel bar to the base of the armrest and mount it in the existing sideguard mounting points? The armrest would then be more pedestal like, similar to your own? But I need to give some more thought?https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bright-Mild-Steel-Flat-Bar-Various-Sizes-20mm-x-3mm-to-50mm-x12mm/391170005087?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144

https://flic.kr/p/25j83uU.

I one thing I need to change before I go out in public is the bright blue bodywork, argh! I'm going to have a go at vinyl wrapping it, I've got a heat gun so fingers crossed . https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262968064419?var=561976718585

It's the seat re-locate, centre footplate, and skinny rear tyres that are the first need addressing. Then the other points you recommend.

[Burgerman]

Before any of this, you need to figure out a way to mount the control pod about a foot higher, and about 2 inches inboard from the arm top centreline. And then adjust the swing away mount with allen keys and a spanner so the joystick does not wobble an any slight way if you wiggle it.

Re the armrests, as you've mentioned before they're not really strong enough to put any weight through.

Its not really the weight. Its about the fact that they move laft/right if you put any pressure on them when transfering. Or while you are attempting to steer on an uneven surface. That allows unwanted commands... You are not in proper control. Like expresso complaining about instability on bumps. Thats what he means.

I was wondering whether I could T-mount a chunky piece of flat steel bar to the base of the armrest and mount it in the existing sideguard mounting points? The armrest would then be more pedestal like, similar to your own? But I need to give some more thought?https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bright-Mild-Steel-Flat-Bar-Various-Sizes-20mm-x-3mm-to-50mm-x12mm/391170005087?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144

The correct single post arms and mounts are relatively cheap and easy to find. Maybe rover.

I one thing I need to change before I go out in public is the bright blue bodywork, argh! I'm going to have a go at vinyl wrapping it, I've got a heat gun so fingers crossed . https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262968064419 ... 1976718585

Black looks way better. Mine was ordered that way as a build for me option. Rediculous only offering 3 fairground colours. What makes them think you want to look like a dodgem car?

It's the seat re-locate, centre footplate, and skinny rear tyres that are the first need addressing. Then the other points you recommend.

Well it all does. One thing wrong, and the whole chair feels a mess. So you just have to fix it first!

[shirley_hkg]

Tie-down at the seat pan seems all wrong , itsn't it ?

[Scooterman]

Tie-down at the seat pan seems all wrong , itsn't it ?

Thank you for commenting all comments are welcome regardless But I’ll let BM answer this one.
This is just a quickie post for more photo links. I’ll post proper reply to BM later...
https://flic.kr/p/24iSo8m
https://flic.kr/p/24iSo4J

[Scooterman]

Before any of this, you need to figure out a way to mount the control pod about a foot higher, and about 2 inches inboard from the arm top centreline. And then adjust the swing away mount with allen keys and a spanner so the joystick does not wobble an any slight way if you wiggle it.

I understand

Screen Shot 2018-03-22 at 07.37.50.png (281.24 KiB) Viewed 7994 times

Its not really the weight. Its about the fact that they move laft/right if you put any pressure on them when transfering. Or while you are attempting to steer on an uneven surface. That allows unwanted commands... You are not in proper control. Like expresso complaining about instability on bumps. Thats what he means.{/quote]
I understand that too

The correct single post arms and mounts are relatively cheap and easy to find. Maybe rover.

I was going to PM him as well but I was thinking in case he hasn't got any, then perhaps maybe eBay. Although some parts sellers seem to want the earth.

Black looks way better. Mine was ordered that way as a build for me option. Rediculous only offering 3 fairground colours. What makes them think you want to look like a dodgem car?

Did you have much push back from the dealer when you asked for black? Did he such his teeth and say only blue and red are available? Have you ever vinyl wrapped any parts on motorcycles in the past? If I remove the panels and reflectors, etc. The panels don't look too bad to wrap? I've never done it before but will have a go.

Well it all does. One thing wrong, and the whole chair feels a mess. So you just have to fix it first!

Understand
PS: From the flickr photos I think I can bring the seat side rail width in by 1/2" a side. The seat is seat to it's 16" min but by taking about 10mm off the ends of the width adjustment bars it should reduce the overall width to 15" which is the same as my manual chair and the same as a decent spare 15" cushion I've got.

NB: Sorry I sort of balls'ed up the quote boxes, I'm not very good at arranging my replies within the quotes. But I think if you read through it sort of makes sense? Sorry I shall try harder next time

[Scooterman]

PS does this mean r-net? https://flic.kr/p/25nPKJD
Also is this box just for the seat actuators? Will there be another r-net box for the motors hidden away in the depths of the chair that’s a bi**ch to get to?
Did I pull the short straw as far as controllers go? I’m thinking what with a programming lead hard to source?
When I tried the chair yesterday the seat feels like it’s mechanically setcat zero degrees, I like more tilt than that. So I tilted it back on the joystick but the joystick led kelt on flashing and the chair wouldn’t break snails pace. That’s no good to me! Lol

[foghornleghorn]

When pulling a chair apart to make changes to it I have found it useful to have the parts catalogue as it shows how everything has been assembled. The parts catalogue for the Salsa R2 / Salsa M2 is here http://parts.sunrisemedical.eu/print/ma ... a%20m2.pdf

[Burgerman]

That seat dump is adjustable in 3 far too wide positions. And depending on seating/options in 2 different ways where it connects to the frame. Basically 2 bolts. So I drilled 2 new holes in the correct place...

And with programming you can set that tilt inhibit to any speed. Including full... Or move the microswitch to a slightly different position so the turtle appears later.

Or a combination of all the above...

Never plastic wrapped! Cant stand n****r music... Its 3 very small parts. Any car body shop will do them black, plus laquer for 30 tokens! The stickers are available from sunrise.

That pic shows r-net power module. The seating/lighting one is in front behind a plastic easy to remove cover. And smaller.

id I pull the short straw as far as controllers go? I’m thinking what with a programming lead hard to source?

Theres one way. An OEM dongle. Not cheap. Or find a user with one and a train ticket. And a day to fine tune everything. Or https://powersoccershop.com/pcprogrammer.aspx About 300 uk pounds. Then you will need to fight the customs as they will charge vat...

The image of the control pod above was still low. Its now 20mm higher on a alloy spacer, and the centreline of the controller is in line with the inside edge of the arm.

[Burgerman]

Note that there are now 4x 5mm thick spacers, sat one on top of the other. Under the joystick.
These are laser cut alloy disks sprayed black, with 2x 6mm holes in each. To lift the joystick still further by total 20mm.
The The top of the housing is above the arm by around 10mm so that my hand can cup/hold the side in comfort to give a fixed reference point to accurately steer with my thumb/finger. Anything other than this does not work!

And note that it is located towards the inside the arm. Even with these fat wide padded arms. It means its where your hand naturally falls, and so is easier to hold/control and doesent hit doorframes.

IUf your joystick is not in the same position, then theres no way you will ever have good control. Esp important once programmed correctly. Stock delayed, low acceleration settings disguise all of this. And make a chair all but undrivable.

To get it into this position, and to get rid of all the wobblyness from the swingaway, requires lateral thiunking, lots of reassembly, a hacksaw, and a drill... And some spacers. Compare to the picture you posted 2 above. And you will see its now higher.

[Burgerman]

Two more of my chairs. Note joystick position. To the left of the arm, and the plastic body, a little higher than the arm.

http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/images- ... chairs.JPG

[Scooterman]

Thank you for your replies BM, I've read through them and I will definitely reply later on or in the morning.

But can I get your opinion on these rims re valve holes? This photo is the rear drive wheel rim https://flic.kr/p/25paYk4

And this one is the front castor wheel rim https://flic.kr/p/25paYxt (you can just about see it).

It's regarding putting pneumatics on these rims? Leaving aside tubeless for the time being. If I was to put 3.00 x 8 tubed knobbly's on the rear and 3.00 x 4 tubed on the front, would I even get the inner tube valve through them valve holes? For one they look the wrong shape, and the castor wheel one looks nigh on impossible. What do you think? Would it be just a case of opening up the valve holes with a drill. I must say I'm a bit baffled unless I need different rims for pneumatics?

[Scooterman]

When pulling a chair apart to make changes to it I have found it useful to have the parts catalogue as it shows how everything has been assembled. The parts catalogue for the Salsa R2 / Salsa M2 is here http://parts.sunrisemedical.eu/print/ma ... a%20m2.pdf

Thank you good idea, and thank you for the links

The user manual that came with the chair is for the old model, the Salsa R1 I assume? The seller purchased my chair in April 2014 so I'm wondering if it's one of the first of the R2's, and the dealer didn't have any R2 manuals?