Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

[Burgerman]

The valve holes are round. Once you line the rear and front halves up to the correct position.

[Scooterman]

The valve holes are round. Once you line the rear and front halves up to the correct position.

Oh, that's a relief! I don't why I didn't think of that, sorry . I guess that's why you own and run WD and I don't! Lol

The person who put the solids on obviously didn't worry about aligning the holes.

[Burgerman]

I doubt he noticed them.

[Scooterman]

That seat dump is adjustable in 3 far too wide positions. And depending on seating/options in 2 different ways where it connects to the frame. Basically 2 bolts. So I drilled 2 new holes in the correct place...

Understood

And with programming you can set that tilt inhibit to any speed. Including full... Or move the microswitch to a slightly different position so the turtle appears later.

Or a combination of all the above...

Never plastic wrapped! Cant stand n****r music... Its 3 very small parts. Any car body shop will do them black, plus laquer for 30 tokens! The stickers are available from sunrise.

I've order the vinyl wrap I fancied having a go as I like watching car wrapping videos on youtube. Plus it's cheap and I reckon carbon fibre effect might look quite good? But on hindsight perhaps I should have gone for a gloss version like the carbon fibre on F1 cars. Oh well I've ordered it now and it was only £6.59

That pic shows r-net power module. The seating/lighting one is in front behind a plastic easy to remove cover. And smaller.

]id I pull the short straw as far as controllers go? I’m thinking what with a programming lead hard to source?

Theres one way. An OEM dongle. Not cheap. Or find a user with one and a train ticket. And a day to fine tune everything. Or https://powersoccershop.com/pcprogrammer.aspx About 300 uk pounds. Then you will need to fight the customs as they will charge vat...

Once I've done all the mechanical bits and got the chair set up how I like it. If I got really stuck and had no way to program it can I buy a train ticket in your direction? I wouldn't be a nuisance, I would only speak when spoken too

The image of the control pod above was still low. Its now 20mm higher on a alloy spacer, and the centreline of the controller is in line with the inside edge of the arm.

I plan to do the same. Well as near as I can manage

[Scooterman]

Note that there are now 4x 5mm thick spacers, sat one on top of the other. Under the joystick.
These are laser cut alloy disks sprayed black, with 2x 6mm holes in each. To lift the joystick still further by total 20mm.
The The top of the housing is above the arm by around 10mm so that my hand can cup/hold the side in comfort to give a fixed reference point to accurately steer with my thumb/finger. Anything other than this does not work!

And note that it is located towards the inside the arm. Even with these fat wide padded arms. It means its where your hand naturally falls, and so is easier to hold/control and doesent hit doorframes.

IUf your joystick is not in the same position, then theres no way you will ever have good control. Esp important once programmed correctly. Stock delayed, low acceleration settings disguise all of this. And make a chair all but undrivable.

To get it into this position, and to get rid of all the wobblyness from the swingaway, requires lateral thiunking, lots of reassembly, a hacksaw, and a drill... And some spacers. Compare to the picture you posted 2 above. And you will see its now higher.

I can see And I get what you mean about positioning the joystick where the hand naturally lays. And about having a reference point for the hand, and hence steady/accurate joystick control . I can see what you mean now about not having everything waggling about like on mine. When I first went up the road in the chair for a test run I was weaving side to side because I kept on over-correcting.

I've got my plan of work order written out so I've just got to get started. The handy thing about smartphones is that I can take lots of photos before removing/changing position of a part so I can always put it back again if I make a b*lls up.

[Burgerman]

You cant balls it up.

When I first went up the road in the chair for a test run I was weaving side to side because I kept on over-correcting.

Thats because of the "programming"...

[Scooterman]

You cant balls it up.

When I first went up the road in the chair for a test run I was weaving side to side because I kept on over-correcting.

Thats because of the "programming"...

See, being my first powerchair and without this forum (and website) I wouldn't have known that. People who don't know of WD (or don't care) must struggle on in ignorance for years.

[foghornleghorn]

People who don't know of WD (or don't care) must struggle on in ignorance for years.

They struggle, or they just give up and sit in an armchair all day. It's the reason there are so many second hand wheelchairs for sale that say 'used twice' and look like that is genuinely the truth.

[Scooterman]

People who don't know of WD (or don't care) must struggle on in ignorance for years.

They struggle, or they just give up and sit in an armchair all day. It's the reason there are so many second hand wheelchairs for sale that say 'used twice' and look like that is genuinely the truth.

I totally agree. I had a lucky buy of a decent used salsa last week. The seller was a lady who said she’d only used it for about 12wks in total on holidays. And from it’s condition I believe it too. I was really lucky I could have bought a pig in a poke because I didn’t see it in person (much too far away).

[Burgerman]

Read this very carefully several times.

The bit of programming in question is 4 settings.

Turn acceleration. Typically set to 25 or 30. (Needs to be 100 Maxed out)
Min turn acceleration. Typically set to 15 or 30. (Needs to be 100 Maxed out)

These mean that you try to turn, and nothing much happens, at first, so you then add more. Its time based. So the initial turn you wanted eventually kicks in, followed by the extra amount you added because nothing happened... So it steers too far,too much some time after you told it! Causing panic as you are heading towards a doorframe, parked car. So now you panic and move the stick the opposite way to try and stop it turning... This doesent happen because of the same delay going the opposite way... Till you get too much turn, some time later.

Turn deceleration. Typically set to 25 or 30. (Needs to be 100 Maxed out)
Min turn deceleration. Typically set to 15 or 30. (Needs to be 100 Maxed out)

This means that as you try to stop it turning (too far) fro the above delays, it will not stop turning fast! Its another delay that takes time to stop this turn... So you panic even further! Because it now responds as told you may need to REDUCE turn speeds.

These 4 settings are the cause of pilot induced occilation and hitting every door frame. Its NOT you, and nobody should take time to LEARN to drive a new chair as you often hear. Instead you must remove these stupid delays in steering inputs. Setting all 4 to 100 means a turn begins when YOU tell it. At any speed. And turns at the exact rate you choose straight away instead of gradually increasing over time. And it means it stops turning straight away as you told it to, WHEN you told it to.

Set all 4 turn acc/dec settings to say 30% rather than 100%, is exactly like trying to use a RC car or RC plane with servos that are super slow. Taking several seconds to turn end to end. And being seconds behind what you want. It becomes unsteerable. Its hard to get the amount of turn you need, and hard to stop it turning too. This perfectly describes every stock powerchair.

However once fixed this needs good joystick position, and a solid joystick mount with no wobbles and your hand on the side of the pod for a reference position, not sat on top of the arm only holding the stick! So you can see why they are all set this way. Because the rest is wrong too!

[Scooterman]

That's EXACTLY the characteristics it was displaying.

Changing the subject can you look at this photo. To remove the recline actuator mounting bracket is it these four bolts need removing?

https://flic.kr/p/25n1YjU

[Burgerman]

Dunno, Dofferent seat to mine. But probably!

[Scooterman]

Fair enough. I’ll have go, I was just concerned about 4 nuts disappearing into the depths of the chair and saving me fishing them out.

[foghornleghorn]

Those 4 you pointed at, PLUS the 2 in the centre of the seat plate https://www.flickr.com/photos/50805221@N03/40239973314/

edit/ linked to wrong photo

[Scooterman]

Front tyre selection conundrum, opinions sought!

Deffo go to go for 3.00 x 8 black knobbly tube rear to get chair on road and looking half respectable. Might also go for same rear rim, tyre, spacer, set up as BM, at later date, handy for forest paths, etc.

Front is the problem...

At the moment it's got grey 2.8/2.5-4 which make for a 9" wheel fitted into 9" forks.

BM's chair as well as 14" rear has got 10" front fitted into 10" fork.

But if I fit 14" rear keeping 9" front it will make the arse sit slightly high. Or I could try and squeeze 3.00 x 4 tyres into the 9" forks, but they would be a tight fit, maybe a bit of filing, and might look at bit odd?

So two questions...

1) Odds on squeezing 3.00 x 4 into 9" forks

2) Arse sitting high - is it a problem?

[Scooterman]

Getting there... Can't fix new seat position until centre footplate arrives.

Related to previous question... Front rear incline rolling chassis as it is on 12.5" rear, 9" front.

[Scooterman]

That pic shows r-net power module. The seating/lighting one is in front behind a plastic easy to remove cover. And smaller.

I found the seating/lighting one

The power module is this one http://www.cw-industrialgroup.com/Products/Mobility-Vehicle-Solutions/R-net/EL-Power-Module.aspx

[Burgerman]

1) Odds on squeezing 3.00 x 4 into 9" forks
DUNNO... The tyres I fitted are nominally 3.00 x 4 but measure a little less like 9.5. So get some the same and you should be OK. Black tyres the size you have are hard to find.


2) Arse sitting high - is it a problem?
SHOULD be no problem. If it is, fit spacer and longer bolt.

The 90A power module offers less torque than the 120A one. Which is why I paid extra. But you are light? And with seat moved back, it should work reasonably well. If not keep watching ebay... It may not like steep ramps, or zero turning at times.

Having got used to looking at my 120 tyres/rims those stock wheels look stupidly small!

[Burgerman]

I can send you a set of unused 3.50/8 Heidenou or whatever they are called cheaper than new if you want. But they will look pinched on stock rims. At the moment the rear looks too low if you ask me! Stock tyres look like a pram!

But you really want a set of these, you know you do! See shirly...

Dont mess about, Go big!


Institutionalised, Flimsy, NHS, bicycle, Pram!

Millitary, Heavy Duty, Drug Dealer!

Tyre, Close up, Wheel, ...

[Burgerman]

Yes, 27.5 wide...

On one of your pics theres a microswitch visible behind the seat. That can be adjusted so you dont see the turtle as soon. And so can tilt back more. But better achieved by altering the seat base angle.

[Scooterman]

[quote="Burgerman"]I can send you a set of unused 3.50/8 Heidenou or whatever they are called cheaper than new if you want. But they will look pinched on stock rims. At the moment the rear looks too low if you ask me! Stock tyres look like a pram!

But you really want a set of these, you know you do! See shirly...

Dont mess about, Go big!

BIG is BAD for BUS!

But them 3.50/8 Heidenous are nice, it's just a shame they won't go on shirley's rims... I think they'd look silly on my rims.

[Scooterman]

1) Odds on squeezing 3.00 x 4 into 9" forks
DUNNO... The tyres I fitted are nominally 3.00 x 4 but measure a little less like 9.5. So get some the same and you should be OK. Black tyres the size you have are hard to find.

Your dead right, I emailed the dealer the only option was grey. The rear 3.00 x 8 are available in black.

2) Arse sitting high - is it a problem?
SHOULD be no problem. If it is, fit spacer and longer bolt.

You're a genius BM I'd have never thought of that in a million years. :

The 90A power module offers less torque than the 120A one. Which is why I paid extra. But you are light? And with seat moved back, it should work reasonably well. If not keep watching ebay... It may not like steep ramps, or zero turning at times.

You're dead right, I probably weigh about as much as that big dog in your videos Or he may have weighed more than me

Having got used to looking at my 120 tyres/rims those stock wheels look stupidly small!

I agree they do look stupidly small, they remind me of the grey plastic wheels you get on a kids toy pedal car or tonka toy.

[Scooterman]

Yes, 27.5 wide...

On one of your pics theres a microswitch visible behind the seat. That can be adjusted so you dont see the turtle as soon. And so can tilt back more. But better achieved by altering the seat base angle.

When I was removing seat and backrest I remembered you mentioning that microswitch.

[Burgerman]

I THINK that that is the one. I may be wrong. But watch it as the seat tilts to see if that one is the correct one. If so some minor mechanical change/adjustment will stop it acting so soon. On the other hand, mine will be disabled in software completely when I get around to doing it. The reson its there is because if you tilt, esp when high up, or on anything but level ground the chair may tip over backwards as you move forwards. Made worse by moving the seat back. So recline, and tilt can be dangerous! Especially if seat is raised. But its common sense to me so I use my brain.

[Scooterman]

That seat dump is adjustable in 3 far too wide positions. And depending on seating/options in 2 different ways where it connects to the frame. Basically 2 bolts. So I drilled 2 new holes in the correct place...

I've search high and low for what the manual refers to as a banana bracket which supposedly give a range of fixed position seat bucket. I can't see it and the only conclusion i can draw is that the banana bracket is only on the standard non-tilt/elevate seat?

My seat module

With the tilt/elevate module on my chair the only way I can see of adding a bit of fixed position bucket is to raise the front end of the tilt/elevate module by using this lower hole for bolting front of module to frame. Sorry that sounds a bit garbled, and the photo isn't particularly clear but I'm pretty sure it's the case. Any more bucket than that will as you said in an earlier post will have to be set by adjusting the position of the tilt microswitch.

NB: I think your chair being 2018 must be a bit different? Do sunrise manufacture their own salsa tilt/elevate modules or do they buy off-the-shelf?

[Scooterman]

I THINK that that is the one. I may be wrong. But watch it as the seat tilts to see if that one is the correct one. If so some minor mechanical change/adjustment will stop it acting so soon. On the other hand, mine will be disabled in software completely when I get around to doing it. The reson its there is because if you tilt, esp when high up, or on anything but level ground the chair may tip over backwards as you move forwards. Made worse by moving the seat back. So recline, and tilt can be dangerous! Especially if seat is raised. But its common sense to me so I use my brain.

I think it is the one too, there are four threaded holes

[Scooterman]

1) Odds on squeezing 3.00 x 4 into 9" forks
DUNNO... The tyres I fitted are nominally 3.00 x 4 but measure a little less like 9.5. So get some the same and you should be OK. Black tyres the size you have are hard to find.

These: https://www.oponeo.co.uk/moto-tyre-details/heidenau-msc1-3-00-4-35-b-front-rear-tt#185979767

Can you point me in the direction of what tubeless valve would fit the Salsa's stock rims? I've never fitted tubeless before and don't know if the valve has to matched to the rim?

[Burgerman]

You cant do tubeless on the front.

[Burgerman]

Theres no banana bracket with a seat riser module. Th other bracket you saw is it.

But it has 3 holes. Too flat. Too steep. Really too steep. I drilled another! -In between too flat and too steep.

But you may also need to drill the two rails with holes as the lift mechanism may foul the freame at the rear when you raise the front edge. Mine did.

[Scooterman]

Just so I'm clear my mind...

Illustration 1. 120/70 - 8 on Shirley's 3.50 x 8 rim.

Illustration 2. 3.50 x 8 on Salsa rim.

Illustration 3. 3.50 x 8 on Shirley's 3.50 x 8 rim.

Illustration 3 the reason why I can't put 3.50 x 8 Heidenau K75s on Shirley's 3.50 x 8 rims?