PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

[Scooterman]

I expect new carers and visitors are gobsmacked by how immaculate your place is, especially for a 'disabled person'. Usually walls and furniture etc get knocked about something rotten by wheelchairs, etc.

In my flat everything is marked, there's not a door, door frame, skirting board, wall, etc which hasn't received a scrape or a lump knocked out of it.

[steves1977uk]

And you can blame 99% of that on the chairs programming SM! Too many delays causes the exact things you describe!

Steve

[Burgerman]

True.

And of course I am OCD. If theres a mark. Any bigger than an ant, I fix it. Carpet worn? Replace it. A spec of dust, a jar facing the wrong way, a drip on the floor, a smear on a washing machine, then I point it out to my long suffereing carers. My 2 black washing machines, and black dryer are wax polished with car wax. As are all my mirrors and windows and cills. Me, I am just careful. And accuate driving! No marks.

Spent an hour last week swapping all the light switch SCREWS because some were chrome and some were zinc plated steel and some stainless. Now they are all stainless. And plug sockets same... I am beyond help!

especially for a 'disabled person'.

I had a social worker say that once. While doing an assessement (10 a year from god knows what agency here). And then I asked her why she thought that disabled should be scruffier than other people? And accused her of unconcous bias, discrimination against the very people she was supposed to be helping and understanding. And she had to agree...

On the other hand, you should see my bedroom/workshop.

[Scooterman]

And you can blame 99% of that on the chairs programming SM! Too many delays causes the exact things you describe!

Steve

It happens in my manual chair too! Perhaps my brain needs reprogramming

Seriously though, I should try and be more careful. But I dash about and whollop, another piece of architrave gone!

[Burgerman]

Heres the difference. You are renting? At a guess. And heres why I guessed that.

So its not yours. Why should you care?

With that in mind, you can drive around a town, and point out the houses and flats that are rented V owned with pretty good accuracy. I wouldnt spend time or money on someone elses property either.

[Scooterman]

Housing association

[Burgerman]

So thats the difference really. Its not your woodwork you bash into.

And you are unlikely to spend money on a property that is not yours. And so it is what it is. The other diffference is that if my roof leaks I get to pay. You call up the owner. And you likely get housing benefit and I dont. So all my bills, mortgage (now paid) are my own expense.

Swings and roudabouts as we say here...
The advantage I have is that I can do equity release in a year and have a free house to live in till I die, and a "draw down" system that allows me to use my house like a bank account. And the equity company get the house or at lease the amount I spend, from the sae after I die...

[wheelie junkie]

Our crazy housing system. I couldn't get any help towards my mortgage (paid off now) yet if I had gone into arrears, been evicted or forced to sell they'ed have to find me accommodation, pay my rent and probably contribute to alterations needed. I could of sold the house to someone who rented it back to me and had the rent paid for me. Possibly more than my mortgage payment was. Explain the logic in that.

[Scooterman]

No I have to pay all my own rent and c.tax - (single person & disabled discounts). I used to have my own place but there was some equity in it when I sold it.
I don't like renting because it doesn't feel 'like your own'. And as you say why spend money on something that you don't own? My Housing Association is hot on the annual boiler test (as it's required by law), but routine repairs are either not done or botched by contractors.
I still want to get my own place again and want a 1 or 2 bed bungalow, but it'd have to be in a cheap part of the country where there's not much work, such as a run-down costal town. My reckoning is that costal regions tend to have more bungalows and less work?
Here down south I've thought of the IOW? I think someone in the forum lives there?

[Burgerman]

Our crazy housing system. I couldn't get any help towards my mortgage (paid off now) yet if I had gone into arrears, been evicted or forced to sell they'ed have to find me accommodation, pay my rent and probably contribute to alterations needed. I could of sold the house to someone who rented it back to me and had the rent paid for me. Possibly more than my mortgage payment was. Explain the logic in that.

Thats called socialism. Take away from anyone that has helped themselves, and give it to those that never did. Good no? And later on it sends you bankrupt when it runs out of other peoples money. And you do a venuzuala.

[Burgerman]

No I have to pay all my own rent and c.tax - (single person & disabled discounts). I used to have my own place but there was some equity in it when I sold it.
I don't like renting because it doesn't feel 'like your own'.

I cannot understand why you would do that. You are wasting your equity, on rent which is the same as burning it. Had you stayed in the other place, or bought somewhere else, you would now have MORE equity... Because you are paying into your own property. And renting doesent feel like your own, because it isnt!

I still want to get my own place again and want a 1 or 2 bed bungalow, but it'd have to be in a cheap part of the country where there's not much work, such as a run-down costal town. My reckoning is that costal regions tend to have more bungalows and less work?

I live in a run down coastal town. Well what used to be the largest fishing port in the world until the EU put a stop to that. It went from a rich town to a poor one. Thats one reason I hate the stupid communistic EU and all its rules that tell us what we are allowed to do.
Yes theres no work much here for the low skilled. But theres a lot of work ANYWHERE for anyone with a few skills. 300k would buy you my 4 bedroom bungalow, detached, perfect condition, gardens, garage, 2 bathrooms, plenty of parking, and in a good area. 240k would buy you a 4 bed house in the same street. And thats probably one of the most expensive areas in the town. You can get 2 bed bungalows, or semi detached bungalows, for half that in other areas. Or less, quite easily.

Here down south I've thought of the IOW? I think someone in the forum lives there?

No idea but that wont be cheap?

[expresso]

300K you got a nice place there - over here 300k gets you a room if your lucky in a decent area - 1 million is a fixer upper house - dont even think thats in Manhattan either - amazing how the cost of living is so different - NYC is a little ridiculous or alot really - its a great place to live for wheelchair users for many reasons - but if i wasnt in a chair - i wouldnt be here even if i wanted to be - i wouldnt be able to afford it -

since we are subsidized - its rent for me - i am in a good section - and grateful to have this place - its very hard to find anything affordable let alone good for wheelchairs etc, - it took me 6 years before i got this apt. - some people wait 10 years and more on a waiting list -

[Burgerman]

300K you got a nice place there - over here 300k gets you a room if your lucky in a decent area

Well new york and london are the two most expensive places in the world to buy property. And yes, 300k would get me a room in london. Thats why I have more sense than to live there! Here I got a carpeted 2 car garage, my own car park that will take about 7 or 8 cars, (amazingly there is times when thats useful). and space for BBQ, gardens, etc And large kitchens, 4 bedrooms, a shower room, 2 bathrooms. And a detached place means no noisy neibours and you can do what you want. Also less fire risk, theres no drunk idiot cooking chips below me. Theres also the fact that I get to decide who provides my internet! I will take that over a room in LGBT violent crime ridden london any day. Its quiet here, plenty of parks, easy access to shops, pubs, colleges, etc. And no guns...

since we are subsidized - its rent for me - i am in a good section - and grateful to have this place - its very hard to find anything affordable let alone good for wheelchairs etc, - it took me 6 years before i got this apt. - some people wait 10 years and more on a waiting list -

Tell me how much is subsidised, how much rent? What would a non disabled person pay as rent in your apartment in new york?

[expresso]

i totally agree with you where you live etc, for the reasons even other than cost alone -

Rent varies - full market for my place is over 4K a month - go figure that - to me its disgusting really to have such high rents - either your Rich here or your subsidized or you live 5 in a room just to pay the bills and get to say Hey i live in Manhattan - there are alot of idiots that do that - just to live here -

[shirley_hkg]

How to clean the flux left on lugs after soldering , without buying professional cleaners ?
Lugs will go with aluminium terminals.

[LROBBINS]

If it's normal rosin flux, you can remove it with alcohol and a toothbrush, then clean water, then fresh alcohol to get rid of the water. This may leave a grey deposit - if so, repeat. Commercial products, e.g. fluxoff spray, are easier to use, but often have pretty noxious ingredients so protect your hands and do it outside.

[Scooterman]

I cannot understand why you would do that. You are wasting your equity, on rent which is the same as burning it. Had you stayed in the other place, or bought somewhere else, you would now have MORE equity... Because you are paying into your own property. And renting doesent feel like your own, because it isnt!

I understand what you say that but it's not that easy, although I am determined to do it. I can't afford to buy a place round here, I'm on the Surrey/Berks border and not far from London and it's expensive plus I don't like it cos there's too many people and too much traffic, and they're building block after block of posh private flats and care homes to cater for the growing number of young and old.

Trouble is my mum + dad are both in their '80s and live locally so I worry about them although they are more physically able than me, and I don't think they'd like it if I moved, (but I can't run my life round them). Plus looking for a house in another part of the country in an area I'm not familiar with is logistically difficult. I've got no transport and would have to find overnight wheelchair accessible motel, etc. And if I make a bad choice it costs a lot to move again what with fees and stamp duty etc. But saying that I'm not a fussy person like some house buyers and don't have to worry about work and schools.

Btw the IOW isn't that expensive because the work is mainly seasonal. I've got nothing against going up north, you have some great scenery, and I think northerners are nicer/more sociable people. But it is colder up north especially on the east coast where you are. If it was warmer I'd be up there in a flash, is there anywhere going in your road?

[Burgerman]

either your Rich here or your subsidized

Who pays the subsidy? Government?

[Scooterman]

Who pays the subsidy? Government?

It's called redistribution

[steves1977uk]

Round here you're looking at £200k+ for a bungalow. Some properties go for over £1m down along the quayside!

Steve

[Scooterman]

Round here you're looking at £200k+ for a bungalow. Some properties go for over £1m down along the quayside!

Steve

Well I won't be moving near you Steve!

Here's a nice affordable example although I'm not over 60 , but I wouldn't be able to get in the jetcuzzi anyway so that's off my list...

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-fo ... 70948.html

[expresso]

either your Rich here or your subsidized

Who pays the subsidy? Government?

the Federal Gov. has all the money - thats who pays the difference - you have to qualify for the apt. etc, First - and its different for everyone or the type of building your seeking to rent etc, - then theres what is called the Projects - you dont want to live there - thats run by the Gov. housing etc, not well kept or safe

[Irving]

Think this thread has gone a little OT, I especially for a pinned one. Maybe, BM, consider tidying the OT stuff into another thread in 'Anything'?

[Burgerman]

Last time I tried that I made a real mess and lost a load. So lets just get back on track.

[Thierry]

Hello and thank you for your amazing website.

I apologize if my question is naive (or already answered somewhere in this forum).

I have a Quantum Partner wheelchair (equivalent of Quantum Rival in the US), with 75ah GEL batteries. I replaced them 6 months ago by "universal" GEL 75ah batteries. I have already lost 50% of my maximum range in miles.
I use a charger supposed to be suited for GEL type batteries (https://www.batterystuff.com/battery-ch ... 4-xlr.html).

Well.. in this website: https://relionbattery.com/products/lithium
I found 75ah group 24 LifePO4 batteries (Relion RB75 product). However, when contacting the supplier to ask if I could replace GEL batteries by these ones for my wheelchair, the guy answered the following:
"I don’t know the charging setup of your chair. Also, is the chair supported by our peak and continuous amp rating."

I have no idea of what it means. As I am not specialist (and I am disabled) I don't think that I could built myself LifePO4 batteries. On the other hand, I had so many issues with GEL/AGM batteries these three last years (with different wheelchairs) that I concluded that their quality highly decreased over years.

Thank you in advance for any help!

[steves1977uk]

Welcome to the forum Thierry!

First, that XLR charger you're using is wayyyyy underpowered for overnight charging, as it would take 25+ hours to completely charge you're batteries. We charge at 12 Amp through the XLR plug, so the batteries get a more complete charge during the night. Also top-up during the day whenever you can because Lead always like to be full!

Secondly, Lithium bricks replacements are not recommended for various reasons, let alone there cost! Read this thread from the start to get an understanding of whats required for a lithium conversion. Ask questions on anything you don't understand Members here will always help.

Steve

[Burgerman]

Ok where to begin.

Lithium ion phoshate batteries USED PROPERLY will give at LEAST 10 years of service with no noticible loss of range.

But here the thing. They HATE several things, and that will kill them off fast.

1. They hate being discharged at a high rate. This means that we nees to fit AT LEAST 1.5x as much Ah as lead. Preferably much more. This means we dont take much current from them per Ah. E.G. To replace the 74Ah grp 24 batteries, we on this forum would replace with 120Ah up to 210Ah of Lithium. 70 or 75 Ah is just not enough.

2. They hate to be charged above 3.550 to 3.600V per cell. But your ready to fit lead brick replacement uses a BMS internally which repeatedly bounces the fullest cell way higher than this, typically 3.7V to 3.8V for hours as you charge. This murders that group of cells faster. We do not use a BMS for this reason. We use a hobby charger with vastly superior charging capabilities to balance the cells without going over the 3.55/3.60 limit.

3. They hate to be discharged deeply. The deeper you discharge them, the faster they deteriorate. So if you only have 75Ah to begin with you discharge them deeply every day... Which is reason 2 that you must use MORE capacity. So... To replace the 74Ah grp 24 batteries, we on this forum would replace with 120Ah up to 210Ah of Lithium. 70 or 75 Ah is just not enough.

4. If you fit a lead brick replacement with a BMS (battery management system) inside, you are relying in a circuit board to balance the cell group every charge. Most of these are not adequate and do so at a tiny 100mA current and so the cells may never be balanced. So one group may be much lower state of charge as all the rest. So wen the BMS sees THAT GROUP drop below 2.5V per cell you stop... In adition, using the cells at high currents, and heavy discharge levels means that they deteriorate in internal resistance. So UNDER LOAD the same stupid BMS cuts off power sooner and sooner. So range decreases fast...

There IS NO PLUG AND PLAY solution thats worth fitting.
There is also no GOOD or BETTER BMS because its the wrong thing in the wrong place doing stuff we dont want or need!

So I suggest you read post 1 on this thread. CAREFULLY.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1813#p23572

[Thierry]

Thank you for your responses.

I will stay on GEL type then. Concerning the charger, I am a bit surprised since the invacare charger I had previously was 8A and I used it many years with 75ah batteries. This one is 7A. I'll try to find a 12A but I have no idea of where, since even finding a wheelchair charger suited to GEL type batteries is a hard task on internet in the USA. Most are AGM chargers.

[Burgerman]

Its much harder than you think.

You want a gel charger? Almost anything will work. Badly!
To do it right:
CC stage, (bulk) preferably 10 to 12A if via stock XLR charge socket.
It must charge at 14.1V (28.20V for a powerchair) at it CV (absorption stage).
It must continue to do this at 28.80V for a max of 8 hours or untill current falls to 1000th of capacity. So just 74mA termination on a 74Ah battery.
It must then drop to 13.5 to 13.6V float, indefinitely. (float is optional if 8 hours to 12 hours CV and/or 1000thC achieved)

I wish you luck finding that. Because the only charger I found that can do that properly is the PL8 hobby charger that we also use for properly charging lithium and cell balancing.

[LROBBINS]

Don't forget the ZXD power supply/charger from Shirley. It can be set up for gel and once that's done is essentially plug and play - plug it into wall and chair and push the power button. To my mind much easier for most that PL8 + power supply + programming PL8 + remembering specific order for connecting and starting things. Rachi's helpers + PL8 on a good day = magic smoke, me + PL8 on a not so good day = magic smoke.