PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

[Burgerman]

If you charge a 200Ah pack from empty then 20A charge will take 10 hours. Then hal hour at CV/balancing...

So more is better!

[fishinjunky]

If you charge a 200Ah pack from empty then 20A charge will take 10 hours. Then hal hour at CV/balancing...

So more is better!

If I charge at 40A then I set 1% (400mA)

If that's to high for new cells then should I charge at 30A then set 1% (300mA)

[Burgerman]

You can charge at around half c so 100A plus safely.

[fishinjunky]

if i have a 24v A/C psu can I use the regenerative discharge for capacity testing and for discharging for storage during winter. Or must it be D/C psu to be able to use regenerative discharge feature. Or can i hook my two 12v 70ah mk gel batteries in a series for 24v theN connect it to the second channel of the iCharger for discharging my 200ah pack into. ( im not concerned about the lead batteries health ) but for this to work would the lead battery im discharging into need to be equal energy to the 200ah pack im discharging?

[fishinjunky]

if i have a 24v A/C psu can I use the regenerative discharge for capacity testing and for discharging for storage during winter. Or must it be D/C psu to be able to use regenerative discharge feature. Or can i hook my two 12v 70ah mk gel batteries in a series for 24v theN connect it to the second channel of the iCharger for discharging my 200ah pack into. ( im not concerned about the lead batteries health ) but for this to work would the lead battery im discharging into need to be equal energy to the 200ah pack im discharging?

nevermind i see in the manual you choose either D/C power supply or battery power source. I was confused i was thinking that my psu was A/C because it plugs into a wall outlet.

[fishinjunky]

Can anyone recommend a 15ft extension cord for the 24v 69amp psu and icharger for charging at 40A. Need to have a normal house hold plug

[Burgerman]

You would need some discharged lead batteries that were around double the capacity of your lithium to discharge them into the lead because of peukert. Unless you are also discharging the lead with say a dump load, or something at the same time... It gets complicated.

[fishinjunky]

You would need some discharged lead batteries that were around double the capacity of your lithium to discharge them into the lead because of peukert. Unless you are also discharging the lead with say a dump load, or something at the same time... It gets complicated.

It's amazing how much energy is packed into these little lifepo4 cells when you would have to have 3 x 70ah lead batteries to equal the energy of one little 24v 200ah pack. I feel I've made a good investment.

But I wish I would have gotten a single low grade b cell just for testing out the charger on an for me to get the hang of the charger but never to be used. I may still do that

[Burgerman]

Much more than 3 batteries!

You only get about half the Ah out of (or returned into) a lead brick in use because of peukert. So say 40Ah at the 2 to 3 hour rate from a 70Ah battery.
Why the 2 hour rate? Because you typically get 8mph x 2 hours = 16 miles range before you are out of juice.

So to equal the range of a fully usable 200Ah 24v from lihium (no peukert of chemical voltage drop), you need (200Ah div by 40Ah =) 5 TIMES the number of lead batts. So for 24v system thats 8 to 10 MKs...

[fishinjunky]

Much more than 3 batteries!

You only get about half the Ah out of (or returned into) a lead brick in use because of peukert. So say 40Ah at the 2 to 3 hour rate from a 70Ah battery.
Why the 2 hour rate? Because you typically get 8mph x 2 hours = 16 miles range before you are out of juice.

So to equal the range of a fully usable 200Ah 24v from lihium (no peukert of chemical voltage drop), you need (200Ah div by 40Ah =) 5 TIMES the number of lead batts. So for 24v system thats 8 to 10 MKs...

Wow that's insane!! I will be putting lifepo4 packs in all future chairs well I'll have to I won't be able to go back to range anxiety after this. I've had to be picked up to many times running out of juice in places nearly impossible to push a powerchair in.

[Burgerman]

Most never actually run out of juice. Bcause they have a subconsious understanding of whats possible and it determines what they do o attempt. They behave according to whats "safe" daily. Without noticing that its controlling their behaviour. They limit what they do or where they go automatically. It takes months to throw that behaviour off. To reprogram mentally. To understand that you can go anywhere, even late at night to the town to eat/drink after a good days use. With no danger of ever being stuck or out of power.

[fishinjunky]

Most never actually run out of juice. Bcause they have a subconsious understanding of whats possible and it determines what they do o attempt. They behave according to whats "safe" daily. Without noticing that its controlling their behaviour. They limit what they do or where they go automatically. It takes months to throw that behaviour off. To reprogram mentally. To understand that you can go anywhere, even late at night to the town to eat/drink after a good days use. With no danger of ever being stuck or out of power.

I couldn't agree more. Before joining this forum I was completely ignorant to the fact that everything I did in my chair was based on my range limitations. And I hear all the time now people say " I would never use that much battery or well I only ever go this far a day" but that's because they have never had the option to go farther.
I have a list of long trips I can't wait to go on after I break free from my lead shackles.
I have to heal up for now though dealing with pressure wounds on both hips an one foot. The foot is almost healed from wearing those fluffy strap on boots. My hips are maybe stage 2 not bad but hard to heal, I feel bad waking my mom in the middle of the night to roll me. But I spent 6 years in bedrest from 2 stage 4 with bone exposed but they finally healed. End of pressure wound rant its my fault anyway

[fishinjunky]

I'm also saving up money agian to buy a spare iCharger 4010duo and psu. I read somewhere to get a iCharger4010 repaired under warranty takes months to get back. I made sure to get at least 3 or 4 of each of the cables like balance extensions ect..Also got enough components to at least 3 future builds thay way I'll only need to purchase cells in the future

[Burgerman]

I hear you on the sores. I spent most of the last few years waiting to heal or generating new ones... Cant get on with life.

[fishinjunky]

my 8x200ah cells have shipped should be here in a couple weeks then its party time

[fishinjunky]

welded studs

[shirley_hkg]

Battery box has room left, after 8 of these 230Ah cells.
I'll incorporate both PL8 & BMS charging into my next pack.

Dsub + XT120 connectors.

[fishinjunky]

Which of these connectors do you guys prefer and why? From my research it looks like the sb50 is the most popular. I went with all sb50 connectors for my 200ah build. They also seem easier to solder

SB50
XT90 / XT120
EC-5

[shirley_hkg]

My BMS need the 4 signal pins that SB50 couldn't provide.

[fishinjunky]

My BMS need the 4 signal pins that SB50 couldn't provide.

do you do all your own 3D printing? I can see that im going to have to get a 3d printer. Are you using cad for your designs

[fishinjunky]

im thinking about running my iCharger 4010duo in sync mode it can charge at 70amps however with my U.S outlet and 65amp input limit i will only be able to pull around 1500 watts 40amps. Thats fine the reason i want to use sync mode is to take advantage of the increase in balancing current from 2.0amps to 2.4amps. Would the 0.4 amp increase be worth running in sync mode if only charging at 40amps? will it balance faster?

[Burgerman]

Very slightly... Be sure to set that charger to start balance only when ABOVE 3.50V.

[fishinjunky]

Very slightly... Be sure to set that charger to start balance only when ABOVE 3.50V.

Thanks bm,
I was reading the manual. To set the time to start balance would this be correct?
If charging at 3.60v per cell I set the balance time at CV -0.1v for it to start balancing at 3.50v.?
I took a snapshot of where it describes it in the manual

[expresso]

i hope once you master this new charger - it can be a replacement for the PL8 - sounds more complicated -

but theres no other choice now - hopefully you will master the charger and then teach the rest of us to use it one day also -

[Burgerman]

Yes thats correct.

Go through all its advanced settings. And set each accordingly to give the correct CC/CV current, voltage, termination current, balance start voltage, and all the rest. Dont miss anything that will catch you out.

[fishinjunky]

Yes thats correct.

Go through all its advanced settings. And set each accordingly to give the correct CC/CV current, voltage, termination current, balance start voltage, and all the rest. Dont miss anything that will catch you out.

I'm putting together a spreadsheet with all the settings we have been discussing. When it's ready I'll send it to you for critiquing if you have time to look it over. I think I'm asking the right questions and reading the manual over an over but I'm really a geek for this stuff I realy enjoy it.

I think the iCharger doesn't feel to complicated for me is because I'm a complete beginner. If I were to be going from the PL8 to the iCharger it may be more confusing because the way iCharger represents its parameter adjustments.

Couple things I would like to see changed in the firmware and other.
1. Ability to adjust parameters to the decimal.
2. Pc software for adjusting parameters settings etc. The icharger has data logging software but only for logging data and graphing ect.
3. Instead of using percentages for current termination use mA like the PL8
4. Allow the termination current to be set below 1% to the decimal

Not critical issues but would make it a better charger overall. Once I start testing we shall see

[fishinjunky]

i hope once you master this new charger - it can be a replacement for the PL8 - sounds more complicated -

but theres no other choice now - hopefully you will master the charger and then teach the rest of us to use it one day also -

Thanks I'm having fun learning everything.

If the iCharger 4010duo works out their iCharger x8 may be a budget option But it's only 30 Amps and I think 1.5 amp balance current so it would take longer to charge. But its alot cheaper.

[expresso]

30A is still plenty - balance is the slower - i seen a video on it - its confusing to me all the little settings -=PL8 is much easier to learn on -

no use talking about it now - its a dead end - and at first i though the PL8 was hard

[steves1977uk]

Here's a link to the iCharger firmwares and manuals... https://www.mttec.de/download/Junsi/ Not sure if they're the latest though.

Steve

[fishinjunky]

I think I'm going to have a electrician come install a 220v outlet on its own breaker and everything to get the most out of the charger.. plus I like overkill even if I don't use it I like the option. I don't think it will be to expensive to get installed besides the labor and cabling