Dynamic Controls Power chair, RC Boat trailer project

[gcebiker]

I feel like i am getting closer with Fritzing, its very intuitive.
Ill at least get it sorted out to the point where i can print on a laser printer and see how close i can get the printed one, to the physical board i have built.

[gcebiker]

The new Shark Controller / Joystick arrived today

1 x DK-REMD21 ( lights + 2 actuator model)
1 x GSM80234 1meter Shark bus cable
1 x DK-PMB21 (75A, 2 Act.)
So that i can have tilt and lights on the Power Wheelchair base that will go on my house power chair and the DK-REMD01 will be moved over to the Invacare Roller M1 that tows my boat to the car for me (either that or i will end up with a new Jazzy 623 Plus power base and ill use that)

Some small sticking points, the remotes have different bolt hole spacing's but a drill made short work of that.

Loading the program from my old Shark to the new Shark Joystick works great ...so long as i have the old Power Module.

Unfortunately i have been unable to use the new remote with the new Power Module.

The tiniest movement of the joystick has the chair bucking worse than a Herd of Pamplona Bulls....
With the gears disengaged, the motor chatters like crazy and when you release the joystick it stops the motors but then flings them into reverse for a second or so.

Any thoughts guys/girls ??? my best bet is the Load compensation is way off, the software changes wording for the same setting between joysticks.

I cant work out what would cause it to spin in reverse after you release the joystick tho.
Makes the chair buck like crazy, very unpleasant to sit in.

DCI Connector part numbers for 12pin port on the DK-MPB21 Power Module

DCI Connector part numbers for 12pin port on the DK-MPB21 Power Module

[woodygb]

Sounds like the motor compensation setting in the new Power Module needs adjusting... MAD things happen if it's set wrong.

EDIT:- Note that programming of BOTH the joystick pod AND the control module is required on Dynamic controls as they BOTH have a programmed memory that MUST MATCH.

[gcebiker]

After a horrible few hours of testing the new module/joystick.

I loaded up the saved program from the old joystick to the new and stuck with the old module and it worked great.

They talk to each other, if you use a newer joystick with more buttons and an older 'less outputs', they talk to each other and shut down the functions the other does not have.

Its part of the spec in the protocol.

As of version 5 of the Shark Bus communication specification, modules shall report capabilities in their power-up packets.
The specific protocol for this is specified below section 5.

Lighting: To enable lighting functionality, both the SPM and the SR are required to support lighting. If the SR supports lighting but the SPM does not, the SR shall disable all of its lighting functionality, ignore all lighting-related status information from the SPM, and never request any lighting functionality. If the SPM supports lighting but the SR does not, the SPM shall disable all of its lighting functionality, ignore all incoming lighting requests and send the "inactive" state for all lighting-related status outputs.

Actuators: To enable actuator functionality, both the SPM and the SR are required to support actuators. If the SR supports actuators but the SPM does not, the SR shall disable all of its actuator functionality, ignore all actuator -related status information from the SPM, and never request any actuator functionality. If the SPM supports actuators but the SR does not, the SPM shall disable all of its actuator functionality, ignore all incoming actuator requests and send the "inactive" state for all actuator-related status outputs. Specifically, if the SR requests an actuator Operating Mode, the SPM shall respond with "Requested operating mode is invalid" - see SPM General Information packet, below.
The preceding comments apply equally to the SACU.

Edit/ I looked up the specs for the motors and they have a winding resistance of 300mOhms,
The factory setting is 140mOhms, the setting name "Load Compensation" though only seems to be a mathematical over ride of max current settings when the motors are stalled.

[woodygb]

Why not try what I suggested?
REPROGRAM the NEW control module with the same relevant settings as your OLD.

[gcebiker]

In the process of doing it at the moment. Just wanted to see what setting to aim for.

Its not a pleasant experience sitting in it and 'seeing what happens'

[woodygb]

Just wanted to see what setting to aim for

..Ummm ...the same as your OLD MODULE would be a good starting point.

[gcebiker]

Old setting was 16mOhm, ...so i tried it and what do you know...it works

I never thought it would be so low, given the spec of the motor and the much higher setting of 140mOhms as default.

...300mOhm gave some interesting sounds out of the motors

Thank you Woody and Wild Turkey
i was too nervous to try what looked like a very low setting given what i have seen my other chairs set to.

[gcebiker]

Thank you again Woody for the advice, ive now copied all the settings over and its working as one would expect....just like the old one.

Now to wait on the order with Element 14 so i can connect up the Lights and Tilt.
http://www.mobilityscooterpart.com/ had the parts here from Taiwan to Australia in only a few days, one very happy customer.
..if only the AUD was equal to the USD.

Rep was here the other day for the replacement test drive and did not even believe the Shark remote with Tilt and lights was available...let along able to be fitted to the Q6 base.

[woodygb]

I'd be inclined to play with the setting as 16 mOhm seems VERY low.... a gradual increase of perhaps 5 mOhm at a time...rinse and repeat until the motors get a LITTLE unstable and then back off 5 or 10.

[gcebiker]

New controller is working nearly exactly as old.

Old i ran at full power all the time , new i need to run 1 step back from full.
Same settings but full power on the new controller/power module is equal to one less on the rabbit/tortoise speed meter on the joystick.

ie, old controller ran at ' 6 ', new performs identical at ' 5 ' .
New one is a tiny bit faster on the Q6 Edge base its fitted to.

[gcebiker]

And on a completely different tangent....

The stock controller for the Q6 Edge...DISCHARGES THE BATTERIES>>...
yes, it charges ...then discharges the batteries.

Years ago i went to an after market 24v "scooter charger" and my batteries have lasted me 11 Years !

I tried using the stock charger for the last 2 weeks and every day it went flat ...like half an hour after taking it off charge !

SO went back to the ebay 24v scooter charger and ............its been TWO solid days of use around the house (the only place i use the house chair) and its still at full LED charge (i have not put in the meter to check its physical voltage).

Is Pride Mobility knowingly selling 'Dumb' Chargers that don't AUTO Float ?
Cant be an accident, the charger i was using is brand new.

Perhaps instead of putting LiPo in our chairs we should first look at the chargers the manufacturers put with them.

Knowingly selling chargers that dont block the discharge after they are full is a REALLY BIG FAIL, if not criminal !

[Burgerman]

All powerchair chargers are crap. I have been telling people this for years. But I don't get what you mean by discharge. If you were to discharge a pair of 70Ah batteries via a charger in an hour it would require a heat sink capable of dumping about 1200 to 1500 watts! And way thicker cable than used on a charger or wiring loom.

Your scooter charger is also crap...

http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/MK1.pdf CORRECT way to charge a gel battery.
http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/MK2.pdf AGM and GEL differences. And charging differences.
http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/MK3.pdf GEL
http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/MK4.pdf Sell sheet
http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/odyssey.pdf Better batteries...

[gcebiker]

Aye, its shite. My chairs not charged in the morning with a stock charger.
There's not be more I know, tilli open it up on the weekend and see what's inside.

Poor form if Pride are selling DUMB chargers to folks that need reliability.

[Burgerman]

You do realise that no charger can charge in an 8 hour overnight cycle to 100 percent?
And that incomplete charge is what causes sulfation that sends the battery to the rubbish bin?

Takes 12 to 16 hours to fully charge.

[gcebiker]

The stock Pride Mobility supplied charger has its indicator LED going green, battery indicator on the chair reads full...but in under an hour its dropped one green led on the Joystick and by lunch time I am into the Yellow with all green gone out.

V's the scooter charger, tops the battery up full...its 10pm and the battery indicator on the joystick is still showing full...and its driving like its got a full charge.

Just an observation for people finding the range on their chairs is not what it should be.
Look at what the charger is doing , it may also be faulty and discharging your batteries after it has finished charging overnight.

I only use this power chair around the house so its never ever run below 90%

Stock Pride charger had me thinking i needed to fit the new batteries, i went back to the ebay scooter charger and the batteries are back to lasting me 2 days before i have 2 greens down on the battery indicator.

[Burgerman]

Just an observation for people finding the range on their chairs is not what it should be.
Look at what the charger is doing , it may also be faulty and discharging your batteries after it has finished charging overnight.

Stock chargers almost always give a green after about an hour in that situation. Incorrectly. They end far too soon. But some continue regardless of green, at CV voltage, some dont. Some go to a lower float voltage which continues the charge at a safer (no thermal runaway) level. What the green doesn't tell you is that its done...

A lead battery that is only 10% discharged STILL takes a full 8 hours to FULLY charge. It doesn't work like a fuel tank. The last 10% of charge is an ever decreasing current. It gets slower and slower. Until it falls to almost zero, just a few mA, its not charged FULL. That matters because it leaves lead sulfate coating the plates. This hardens, and turns to larger non conducting crystals over time. So you eventually cannot ever remove it by charging and you are screwed. Your scooter charger likely charged longer, removed at least some of the sulfates that the pride charger left. Hence better performance.

But no charger I know of can discharge a set of batteries in error unless designed to do so. Thats a lot of energy to lose.

[gcebiker]

But no charger I know of can discharge a set of batteries in error unless designed to do so. Thats a lot of energy to lose.

Ive the parts to build a dedicated 'inline' XLR Voltage/Current Meter.
When i have it knocked up ill do some live testing to see what is going on.

At the very least its a dumb charger and not monitoring its state of charge once it hits 'green' , Ill be able to measure and see what green means for this charger.
Ive 5 different 24v Lead acid and a few 24v LiFePo4 chargers, ill test all of them i think.

[gcebiker]

Tweaked the new joystick today, the DK=REMD21.


Slightly higher top speed, the motors were only 'seeing' less than battery volts.

Fitted LED lights to the chair...slight hickup, when the lights are "off" its still delivering 16v out of the DCI 12pin port

This is the lights OFF...


This is them ON...


Somethings not quite right, i added a switch to completely turn them off .... which pretty much defeats the purpose of having a switch built into the joystick in the first place....
The lights off with manual switch fitted.


Best thing i can think of at the moment is to stick a 24v to 12v DC/DC converter in and see if the LVC works to turn them off fully.
Its an ebay special, i dont know what the value for the LVC is but ill just plug it in an see if it works.

Or it might be something in the settings, ill read over the instruction manual and see if i can find something.
Only setting i remember at the moment is the ones for the Linear Actuators Volts/Amps/timeout etc

[gcebiker]

DC to DC converter sorted it out, now turns On and COMPLETELY Off via the joystick button.

Leds now running on 12v's

Converter used was one of these, waterproof i was able to stuff it in with the rest of the Power module wiring.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Waterproof-D ... Swwo1Xebbw

[gcebiker]

Bought another boat, this one is lighter than the first.
...much lighter. Should be able to launch at the Kayak ramp with the RC Power chair.

Also purchased a 95lb thrust Brushless Trolling Motor a few weeks ago.
I will see how it goes on electric only.

May end up with a full solar boat/powerchair combo.

[gcebiker]

Anyone got a second hand - battery connector / loom - they can sell me ? GSM80208

Hoping someone in Australia might have one floating about they can post.

[gcebiker]

Had a look through some old emails.
A factory plug is only $12 (in the old catalog i have) so trying to see if i can buy a new plug.

Prices will probably have gone up, since i got the catalog in 2006...

[gcebiker]

Aussie agent for DX has been able to supply a DX2 Battery/motor kit so the project is back on track.

[gcebiker]

Sold the Invacare M1 Roller 400aud.

For anyone with one that wont drive smooth, these are the settings i used, very smooth to drive now.
I have the same settings on the CAN bus Dynamic controller fitted to the Roller M1 AND the RS485 Dynamic Shark controller and the both drive very simlar but for the difference in Amperage of Power Module.

[gcebiker]

First run with prototype No.3 , needs some minor adjustments but overall i am very happy with it.

This version with the cowling on, fits under the boat trailer while its parked in the shed. Taking up less room while its not being used.

https://youtu.be/Ta24wr3IecQ

[gcebiker]

Dynamic Shark 50amp controller and the RC Arduino joystick i made.

[gcebiker]

That power base in the above picture had a captains seat on it...

Took it off and stuck it on my indoor chair...OMG, so much better than every other cushion i have used.
Sprung steel seat like a recliner chair.

I was lucky and was able to just take the other cushion off the steel 'Tru Comfort Base with tilt'
Drill a few holes and bolt it straight on.

Its like driving around in a lounge chair

On an unrelated note...anyone know what to put on the shocks so they don't squeak ?
They have dried out over the winter, i a bit worried about putting any silicone spray on (i put it on every thing else) as it is quite runny and i don't want any thing making the tiles slippery for my wife.

[gcebiker]

Stuck a swivel seat on it, its one of the boat seats with the same quick release mounting.

This way i can face backwards when reversing, much more comfortable compared to twisting around.
Also increased the power up to its maximums of 60amps and 15amps boost, works well with myself sitting on the chair and pushing the boat around.

I did a few practice runs, reversing onto the street and back into the garage and it worked really really well.
With the turn run rate dialed down to 50% (via the pot on the RC controller) it was very controllable.

Forward speed is set to 100% and reverse to 70% via the Wizard software.

[gcebiker]

This started off as a project to add sensors to my chair so i would not run over my dog...well it took so long , ran over the dog, the dog learned and so it evolved into this.

Link to a bit of a demo/tear down of the RC wheelchair boat towing power chair.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP0mHbw7hyU


The board is still capable of having more inputs/outputs added.
This reuses the stock wheelchair controller to cheaply build a wheelchair that is able to do more beyond its normal lifespan.

Next steps,
Change the wiring over to the DX Shark Bus cables so its all hot swap-able between chairs.
Make better boards or work with someone to do it... /beg anyone ?
Rebox
Expand upon the features in the current one as needed, such as tilt/lights/horn.