PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

[Scollard]

Expresso, the Coolice PSU is just the same 2 Computer Server Power Supplies wrapped up in a fancy looking package. Get the one on Ebay that I linked to and save all that money. It's 1500W, which is about 12% more than the PL8 can use, is internally grounded, has short protection, current protection and thermal protection. You just need to add a couple of computer power cords and it's probably cost you half of what the Coolice PSU costs.

[expresso]

Expresso, the Coolice PSU is just the same 2 Computer Server Power Supplies wrapped up in a fancy looking package. Get the one on Ebay that I linked to and save all that money. It's 1500W, which is about 12% more than the PL8 can use, is internally grounded, has short protection, current protection and thermal protection. You just need to add a couple of computer power cords and it's probably cost you half of what the Coolice PSU costs.

yes i agree - why spend more when you dont have too - i havnt yet committed to doing the full chair - if and when i do - then i would need it - i have to see when the time comes -

thanks -

[expresso]

Would this be the Correct way to connect 16 Cells to make a 24Volt pack ?

[Burgerman]

Yes. There are others. But that's one way. Provided you connect the correct bits at the end we cant see.

[flagman1776]

Yes. Not the only way it can be configured but certainly acceptable. Not sure what the big washers are for but see no harm.

[LROBBINS]

Looks like those are insulating washers - not a bad idea for a temporary setup until you're sure what should be connected where.

[expresso]

those are not mines - i just found that picture - since i am getting mines tomorrow i think if my tracking is correct -

16 cells also - i think those washers are on the Neg. easy to spot and maybe some kind of insulator also -

now it dosnt show the bottom side of it - so not sure how thats connected - if they have to be at all ?

[Burgerman]

You worry me! I really want this to work out.

Did you ever look at a battery?
It has two terminals like your lead batteries. Or in some cases like these you bought has 2 ends. Plus and minus.
Take a AA battery out of something in your house. Examine it very carefully. It will be marked + and - at each opposite end.

No electricity can flow in a circuit unless it flows from one end, to the other.

If you add 8 x 3.3v cells together in SERIES (meaning pos to neg in a line) you ADD the voltages up.
If you added 8x 3.3V cells in parallel (all the positive connected, and all the negative connected together) you have one big cell. You STILL have the same 3.3V you started with. But 8x the Ah of one cell alone.

So 4 of your new cells that are connected plus to minus (series) will give 4x 3.3V = 13.2V total.

So 8 gives you 26.4V.
Another set of 8 connected in parallel gives you double the capacity in Ah.

You HAVE got to comprehend this or things may end badly. Study basics of batteries and circuits. So you are not needing to try and copy something. You must know you are doing it correctly. I already gave you this link. http://scriptasylum.com/rc_speed/lipo.html

Study it until you understand it. Play with the interactive diagrams.

[expresso]

i do and i dont really get it - reason i will be asking and showing pictures - here to make sure

i am not used to so many cells - i got it with the two batteries in the chair - i get it - there when i look at it - its simple

but with so many cells - i am back to where i dont get it %100 -

thats why that picture - its the same about of cells i am getting - 16 - want to make one 24v Add on - - i am not sure how exactly they get connected

i am looking at the videos - i would love to have someone here in person who knows more then me on this stuff - but i dont - so i turn to you guys here

[Burgerman]

Dont look at videos. Many of those are plain ignorant idiots that are posting about stuff they barely understand or dont understand themselves. Thats all about making money from ads...

Read, and study this. It tells you EXACTLY what you need to know and understand to do this safely.

http://scriptasylum.com/rc_speed/lipo.html

[expresso]

i am looking at that - i know i am not the brightest when it comes to this stuff -

i need more of a visual - something like where its posted on here - how to make the whole pack - theres a picture of all the cells and how its connected

thats easy for me to understand -

what it seems like - i should have 8 cells in a roll - another 8 cells next to that - two rolls - side by side - the ends should be connected neg. to neg on the bottom

the other ends pos to pos -- and in between pos to neg. down the line ?

maybe someone can make a picture showing how it should be connected - both sides top and bottom -

thats why i posted that last pic - its the same amount of cells and its 24v - if i copied that layout - its fine ? but i dont see the under side - so not sure how its connected there -

i need my hand held sort of speak - dumbed down as much as you can - it sounds worse than it is but at the same time - i really know nothing about electrical stuff -

[shirley_hkg]

You asked how to connect the other end.

Apart from joining the two 8_cell_layers in parallel with 8 connectors as the top view here ,
you place another 4 connectors as indicated .

You will get 25 ---- 26 V at terminals.

[Burgerman]

Connect the wrong ones and there will be heat and smoke. Make sure you understand which ones AND WHY. Dont just try to copy.

You need to stat by looking at 1 cell. Then two. And then 3. And then some in parallel. Hence that link I repeatedly sent you.

Now you also know why I suggested to get the hobby batteries as they are all just plug and play.

[shirley_hkg]

This page may help too

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1813&start=320

[steves1977uk]

expresso,

Buy yourself a 12v LED bulb, 16 AA batteries, some wire and 4 x 4 AA cell holders.

Now here's your challenge, see if you can work out how to get the bulb to illuminate on 12v and how to add extra mAh to make it last longer. Quite a simple thing to do

Steve

[Burgerman]

Agreed. You must learn.

Also suggest a cheap multi meter. Like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Digital-LCD-M ... oxvpFT1S6w

Or similar. There are some for just £2 if you look. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Digital-LCD-M ... XQVs1Rl64S So you can see what does what.

[expresso]

i have a meter to check the volts - now you know why i wanted to get the ready made pack too late now - i am all in and one way or another - hopefully with help from here - i get it done correctly -

i have looked at the link you sent - it shows up to 5S 2P - i am needed 8S and 2P - which i guess is the same as doing it with 4S - just double to 8S

i just received my first order 8 Cells - i guess i may get the rest next week or after Xmas -

its too late for me to turn back now - i have to get this done one way or another - even if i start with 4 cells or 8 Cells etc, - and i realized they are smaller than they look in pictures - which is a good thing -

the hobby batteries may have been better now that i looked it over a few more times - but thats the past now - so no use thinking about it - i need to focus on getting this done - safely of course -

when i start to do it - i will take pictures and post it first - to make sure its correct before i connect the connectors - - i still need to go get some locktite - electrical tape - a few little things before i start - and with the holidays - i may wait till they are over - to focus

in the meantime - any info that i can see - pictures etc, - would be helpful - - reading about it and understanding it is of course needed but i do better when i see it at the same time with reading

[expresso]

Connect the wrong ones and there will be heat and smoke. Make sure you understand which ones AND WHY. Dont just try to copy.

You need to stat by looking at 1 cell. Then two. And then 3. And then some in parallel. Hence that link I repeatedly sent you.

Now you also know why I suggested to get the hobby batteries as they are all just plug and play.

Yes - thats not what i want - NO smoke or heat i will look it over and over and check the link as i do it - and start just a few cells - and check the volts - etc, so i understand as i do it -
i am not the smartest - but i wont just put all 16 together at once and guess

everyone done it - i am sure with your help and everyone here - i can get it done also - may take longer for me to get it right - and i will be as safe as i can - i wont use the connectors till i know where to put them - i may just tape over the ends and just lay them on top to see - or use something else instead - for pictures to have it doubled checked here

i will take your advice with starting with 1 cell , 2 etc, and work my way - i have to wait for my person who will help me also - before i start anything - shes just helping me - but knows less than me - so you get the picture

i be coming back here for next step as i go

[expresso]

You asked how to connect the other end.

Apart from joining the two 8_cell_layers in parallel with 8 connectors as the top view here ,
you place another 4 connectors as indicated .

You will get 25 ---- 26 V at terminals.

Thanks for the Visual - thats helpful for me - - Apart from having to understand why its working in this manner etc, - i will also do that - but at least i know - if i follow the picture and understand why as i go along etc, - i wont get smoke and heat from doing it wrong -

i was going to make at first - two packs - 8 cells each - 12 volt each pack - and connect them - reason is i am used to looking at TWO BATTERY PACKS - from the wheelchair - so if i see two packs that way - i can figure it out easier -

having so many cells - makes me confused -

AT least now i know if i follow the picture - even though its not the correct way to do things - i know it wont make smoke or heat - that i dont want - thats all i want to do is not make smoke or heat and get it done - i am not going to build packs other than this one - at the moment -

ok looking at this picture - i understand it more - how to make this one 12 volt pack -

[expresso]

who ever made that picture - made it very clear and easy to understand how to connect them -

that would be one 12 volt battery - - two of those would give me 24 volts for the whole chair -

if i can see 16 cells the same way this picture layout was made - it would be clearer to me - again aside from having to know why its correct etc, - the pictures help -

[shirley_hkg]

You asked how to connect the other end.

Apart from joining the two 8_cell_layers in parallel with 8 connectors as the top view here ,
you place another 4 connectors as indicated .

You will get 25 ---- 26 V at terminals.

i was going to make at first - two packs - 8 cells each - 12 volt each pack - and connect them - reason is i am used to looking at TWO BATTERY PACKS - from the wheelchair - so if i see two packs that way - i can figure it out easier -

-

That may make things complicated. Suggested to start with a single layer of 8 cells to form a 24V flat block.

[expresso]

Ok i will have 16 Cells - - the picture i posted - if that is correct - i can just connect it the same way - ? and have a 24ah - 24 volt pack ?

i can do it either way to practice and learn - but as long as the picture i posted - is correct - at least i can do it that way - as the last resort - even if i dont GET it complete - at least it would be correct

[Burgerman]

Around and around we go.

Use the link I posted. Its self explanitory, super simple. Then you can answer this yourself and know you are safe/correct and why you are correct. Any copying pictures or not understanding why you are doing what will inevitably end with sparks or when you connect the balance wires wrong maybe a damaged charger. What is important is that you know what is right/wrong by looking at it and understanding it.

You are making something simple complicated. Start with 1, 2 or 3S below.
Then 2 parallel, etc. Its super simple. Then show balance wires too. And LOOK at the terminals and connections. Seriously it cant get easier than this.

This answers every question, photograph, drawing you have. In a simple accurate graphic way. There isnt a better / easier way than this.

http://scriptasylum.com/rc_speed/lipo.html

[shirley_hkg]

The first thing to do is measuring voltage of each cell. Jot them down and post them here.

Secondly, go ahead to assemble your pack. Do not use the connectors.
Instead , use cardboard paper strips to imitate metal connectors to do the connectioons.

Take pics and post here . Let us confirm you are doing it right.

[expresso]

Around and around we go.

Use the link I posted. Its self explanitory, super simple. Then you can answer this yourself and know you are safe/correct and why you are correct. Any copying pictures or not understanding why you are doing what will inevitably end with sparks or when you connect the balance wires wrong maybe a damaged charger. What is important is that you know what is right/wrong by looking at it and understanding it.

You are making something simple complicated. Start with 1, 2 or 3S below.
Then 2 parallel, etc. Its super simple. Then show balance wires too. And LOOK at the terminals and connections. Seriously it cant get easier than this.

This answers every question, photograph, drawing you have. In a simple accurate graphic way. There isnt a better / easier way than this.

http://scriptasylum.com/rc_speed/lipo.html

I understand your logic - but you want me to learn it as fast as you did - not everyone gets it - with this forum - i wouldnt have got involved with any of this - i am glad i did - but dosnt mean i get it all the time or even most of the times - its a learning experience for me - as long as someone here can guide me step by step - i be fine - just takes longer and patience for the teacher - now you know why i wanted to get a Ready Made Pack -

i am trying

[expresso]

The first thing to do is measuring voltage of each cell. Jot them down and post them here.

Secondly, go ahead to assemble your pack. Do not use the connectors.
Instead , use cardboard paper strips to imitate metal connectors to do the connectioons.

Take pics and post here . Let us confirm you are doing it right.

Hi - Yes this is exactly what i wanted to do - takes longer - takes time - but at least it will be correct - i am waiting on the 8 other cells - i can check the volts once i get them all and post it back -

i want the pack to be the same fashion as the picture you posted showing where to connect the bottom connectors - 2 cells side by side - x 8 cells long - thats how i like to have it end up just like the picture shows -

this would perfect - i will do as you suggest here and post the picture back - but if this picture is correct which i was told its correct by the previous posts - then it should be fine - i see the cells - how they are arranged - Pos - Neg. etc, and connected -

[Burgerman]

- now you know why i wanted to get a Ready Made Pack -

Ready wired... http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... _Pack.html
Now you know why I suggested these for you.

You will figure it out. Its simple once you grasp it.

[expresso]

- now you know why i wanted to get a Ready Made Pack -

Ready wired... http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... _Pack.html
Now you know why I suggested these for you.

You will figure it out. Its simple once you grasp it.

Yes i know it now - for me - that might have been the best way for my first time - but its done now - i already invested in this - or a ready made one from EV instead of cells - its done now - i do appreciate all your input BM - no question about it -
i dont want to come off or sound Bad when i post - sometimes it can - but i am not - i am upset at myself for not getting it as fast as everyone - but i started it - and i have to finish it now - i learned alot from this site - with the programming of the chairs , charging etc, - and hopefully this battery thing - can one day sink in better

i will be looking over that link once i get all the cells and start - i notice the orange blocks - are very hard once connected - if i had to take it apart - - i may just connect them all the way i want the pack and leave it that way - i feel if i had to take them apart - they may break doing so - i may just give it a shot of silicone spray before connecting them to make it easier - would there be any reason for not using the spray - just a little - ?

[Burgerman]

You need a flat bench, and some care with a small hammer and assemble correctly once. Fit cells. Then make another side, and tap it into place. Getting them apart later really isn't easy so be sure you don't need to.

You needn't worry, you will get it, once you start. You just worry too much!

[expresso]

I purchased some rubber hammer type - 3 sizes - i hope the smallest size will work - if not i have a small hammer - and can use that with a cloth in between - i will be using my kitchen table - thats my work bench

before i do that - i will use the blocks and cells i have - to measure the battery box on my other chair - so i can see it how it fits there - which means i may have to take my batteries out of that chair to do it - and also i have to wait till after the holidays - since the person helping me wont be here till then -

after i measure that - i can start to put the blocks together and cells in place - i got this hammer set - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00M95 ... ge_o00_s00 which i had to use to put the cart together which turned out to be good size - to hold my stuff on -

i will get in the meantime - the locktite - 242 -blue or 243 - which ever they have - some nylon electrical tape - a few things to slowly have what i need for now and for later to make wires -

i only purchased two or 3 extra blocks - if i knew i might have gotten a few more just in case -

the person - friend who helps me - she is actually Miss Wheelchair NY 2016 - lives in my building so we ride together - http://mswheelchairnewyork.weebly.com/

shes very active and likes to do things - shes the one who helps me with all this stuff - got her to add cables on her chair for fast charging also - but shes relying on me to know what i am doing and she helps me do it - so its going to be fun -

when i put it together - i will post pictures before i even push them in the orange blocks just to be sure its correct - then i can push them in good once and for all hopefully - after that - i will do what shirley suggested and i was thinking same thing - use something in place of real connectors - post picture here again and get that right - then i can use the real connectors - but i wont tighten it down all the way just yet - till i get the BMS - Balance cables connected in the correct locations also - again i take a picture - post it - and when i get the OK from here - - i can just finish it up - tighten it down with Locktite - and hopefully after that - i just have to plug it in and charge like i do normally -

thats my goad for right now - before i even think of a whole chair - i have to do this and learn more etc, understand more - because thats a big job - huge investment - i need to know its going to work once i start that - just like this - i want it to work in the end - this size fits in my backpack easily i think - even if i get extra 8 miles out of this - may be just about what i need to ease my charging needs when outside in the summer - may end up getting about 22 or 25 miles total in the end - depending on the lead batteries - how new they are - i will learn from this first pack - and know better for the future - which is best way to go - depending on my needs or wants --