New Chair

[expresso]

not much room to spare in the battery box - i may have to do something to make my pack fit

even the motors are different on the outside compared to yours in the UK - brake release is Red on yours -

but i do love the center foot plate - fits me just right - not too big or small - dosnt feel bad - i was worried about that -

[Burgerman]

seat needs to go back a bit otherwise looking good. Footplate angle looks like it wants the front edge (toes) lifting an inch. Or your feet will bounce forwards. Those are 8mph motors spec. I hought you said it was 6?? Same exact spec as the ones here in a box on my floor according to the tag. The lever is a different colour but thats a sunrise part. The Linix motor is the same. Probably 35 compensation. And yes centre footplate is better. Esp indoors! Joystick too low by 2 inches. And probably needs to move inboard by a couple of inches. Those are the minor things to look at!

220 rpm at 22.xV.
14 inch tyre, actually 14.5 once you replace that horid grey one, so pie says 45.6 inches per revolution. And thats 45.6 inches div by 36 for yards. 1.266 yards per revolution. X the 220 rpm = 279 yards per minute. X 60 for an hour is 1672 yards per hour. Div by 1760 for mph = 9.5 mph.

You will not get 9.5mph though because thats an unloaded RPM. Wheel off the deck! And a slightly bigger tyre. It slows due to load. You will actually get a little less 8 to 8.5 on the flat ground. 9.5 downhill.

[snaker]

Is that footplate made of steel or aluminum? Is it light enough? Is it detachable?

[expresso]

i am very impressed with the center mount - i am not sure it i had it all the way down in the picture above - but it fits me very nice
the feet are just right - not too big or too small - has a rubber coating my feet dont move - so far - i havnt used it really

just rode it home about 10 blocks - i had to go slow since my girl was walking my other chair back also -


i think its steel the plate - its not light - not over heavy - but firm when moving it up and down -

the motors are rated to be 8.5 - what they actually do - who knows - - these motors have been updated the last year or two i believe

they are much quieter now than my other chair with the same motors but 6 years old - the fins on these are larger on the outside -

i was told they made improvements in the gear box also - to make it quieter stronger - more efficient -

i just emailed my vendor about the JS - asking for an adapter spacer to raise it up at least an Inch - and also for the anti tippers - they are 1 inch off the ground - too close for me - i need them at least 2 inches off - so far those two items i want fixed -

tires i ordered the slicks for the front - i have a pair of Kenda i can use also - - moving the seating back like i did on my other chair

i have to see how the spacing lines up - this seat lift is a bit different i will see - how it can be done - hopefully i can move it one slot back i am hoping for .

then the programming - now i have to remove the rear cover behind seat back - where the recline actuator is - to find a spot to unplug cable - a little bit of a pain - they have used a Long cable from the JS to the rear behind my seat back - on my other chair - i didnt have recline - the cable is very short - right near me - i can unplug easier -

not a huge deal but more work - so i hope to do it once or twice and leave it alone - first save the original settings - and curious to see the Motor comp. i bet its at 30

the motors - i was getting the 6.5 mph - BUT then i was told that Rnet 120A - i couldnt get with the 6.5 mph motors

i know - i know - stupid - silly not true but thats Sunrise saying this - the Rep says he cant - it wont allow him to pick Rnet 120 to configure it with the 6.5 motors -

so i said forget - give me the 8.5 motors and Rnet 120 - there is no reason what so ever why it cant be used - none - but Sunrise has to punch in all the items - if the computer rejects it - wont allow it to configure - thats the issue -

they will say some bullshit story - no use trying to explain to them - even if they agree with me - they cant do it - so waste of time

i wanted to ask who ever has 6.5mph on this chair - if they can share there settings to compare if any difference - because of the motor change - they wont be

the only difference would be slower motor has a 90A and faster needs 120A - i didnt want the 90A - so i took the motors instead to get the Rnet 120 - after all the fuss - i actually agreed to the slower motors till i was told i cant get the 120A -

always something - but its done - its a very nice chair - the center does make it more compact - even in my apt. its great not to have to remove foot rests everytime - just flip it and park -

first time with recline - power center - and the switch box to control it - does make it alot easier to use - not only for me - my girls also i dont have to touch the JS to make changes - i had them adjusted so i can make alot of adjustments angles without it trigging the turtle mode or not moving at all - the only thing that was left alone was the speed once in turtle mode - that i can leave or adjust myself anyway

[Burgerman]

i had to go slow since my girl was walking my other chair back also -

Why not drive it back?

Yes the "new" motors are the same as the 3 year old ones in a box on my floor. They are not new other than to the USA I think. Same specs on that ID tag too. They have 35 compensation here, in UK. As stock. And are called 13kph in place of 8 or 8.5mph. Same motors, same spec, same RPM same watts, same to look at other than the colour of the nylon dip on the freewheel levers. I can send you some red ones if you prefer!

[expresso]

they are newer than the ones on my 646 chair with same motor - looks like you guys get all the new latest stuff alot earlier then we do here

i had a huge box full of stuff which was seated on the chair - so cant ride it home even if she wanted and she didnt -

she wanted to push it manually - i told her its not easy - she wanted - few blocks and she finally decided to power it and just walk it using the power

glad it was a nice day at least - no rain or snow - now i want to ride it - to see how it feels but still too cold for me

[Burgerman]

If it were mine I would whip every wheel bolt, axle, and every accesible chair bolt out, grease, and back in with my 12v portable wrench. So that after a year or so it WILL come out when you need it to do so. Take half an hour now, instead of much swearing when its siezed later.

[sacharlie]

Or replace with stainless?

[Burgerman]

Well I might. But it gives chance to measure them. But its not his chair. At least not untill they dont want it back.

[expresso]

is this about my chair ? its my chair now - no one will take it back unless its a lemon or i refuse to take it for some reason - i already signed off on it - so its mines and they get paid

[Burgerman]

So if it goes wrong or you want to modify it with different motors, or seating, no problem then as it yours? Maybe sell it? Or swap it for a different chair? You can do any of this as the owner because its yours? If not it isnt yours. How does this work?

If it is yours you could sell it unused as new. And buy 2 like mine, for 4.4k each from the UK!

Years ago I bought a new ford with a 4 cylinder engine. I threw that away with its gearbox, prop shaft and rear axle and replaced it with a blueprinted alloy V8 and 5 speed manual box from a completely different manufacturer. Because I could! Because it was mine.

Yes I know you dont want to do any of this. Its a hypothetical question. Can you? Because technically a NHS supplied chair still belongs to the NHS. And they freak out if I start hacksawing the swing away footrest mounts off for e.g... Tested! They were running around like nutters trying to get me to sign disclaimers etc.

[expresso]

Well its a tricky thing - you cant just sell it - because insurance paid for it and will fix it as long as you have the chair they paid for .. i can do what ever i want - just keep it to yourself - but if i change motors - or what ever parts - if i need new motors - insurance will pay for the motors that the chair came with

serial numbers - the part list - for each item etc, - its mines in a sense where you dont have to give it back to any one - for ever - its yours - but during the time you have it - it will be repaired and parts replaced with the same parts that the chair arrived with - - they follow the serial numbers and it shows how it was delivered

now i am sure the vendor or sunrise dont want you modifying the chair etc, - and no one needs to know that - if i am ever questioned about my chairs - i dont care - its mines and i do whatever meets my needs - i am the one using it - its not there chair to use - its mines - so if do something that makes the chair better for me - i will do it - like lithium

Tires - and those are really nothing - they are not affecting the chair in any Neg. way - its an improvement - if they want to argue that - - selling a chair that was paid by insurance for your medical needs - dont think selling that would be any good for you - that means you dont need a chair - you can sell it after you get a new one like me now

i just got a new Chair - its my primary chair - and the bounder is my back up - both are covered for repairs - But my 646 now is no longer covered for repairs - i can sell that one now if i wanted - i still have my older P222se chair - i use in the home only now - 646 is ready to go if i need - will be the spare outdoor chair

i will only use the new chair now and bounder - since both are covered for repairs - and my very first chair ever will be donated to one of my girls who sends it to there country for someone there - who has nothing and no one gets a chair there at all - too much room for real now - hopefully in 5 years or more - will do another chair - or just keep what i have as long as they work for me - and are repaired

[Fusiongoat]

So if it goes wrong or you want to modify it with different motors, or seating, no problem then as it yours? Maybe sell it? Or swap it for a different chair? You can do any of this as the owner because its yours? If not it isnt yours. How does this work?

If it is yours you could sell it unused as new. And buy 2 like mine, for 4.4k each from the UK!

Years ago I bought a new ford with a 4 cylinder engine. I threw that away with its gearbox, prop shaft and rear axle and replaced it with a blueprinted alloy V8 and 5 speed manual box from a completely different manufacturer. Because I could! Because it was mine.

Yes I know you dont want to do any of this. Its a hypothetical question. Can you? Because technically a NHS supplied chair still belongs to the NHS. And they freak out if I start hacksawing the swing away footrest mounts off for e.g... Tested! They were running around like nutters trying to get me to sign disclaimers etc.

No, he owns it. It's his personal property. They only pay for it, they can't repossess it. They can only refuse to pay for repairs if he abuses it. They have a definition of abuse in the law. He could sell it, but then they might not buy him a new one in five years. Our system is not straight up Commie like NHS. I mean the state doesn't own what they pay for and the doctors etc. are independent of the payor.

[expresso]

depends what is abuse - i mean i am an active user and do alot of riding - i wear things out much faster than others - but i dont abuse my chair - its just wear and tear - i havnt had issues so far with repairs - what ever is needed - what ever the tech says i need - i get as long as its the primary chair and or backup chair

and not at the same time - so if i need one chair repaired - they do that - then call in for the other chair - if i did sell a chair they just paid for - when doing a new chair - they want to see you with the old chair - what would you say happened to it ? in that case you would have problems getting another chair - doctors insurance wont just approve if they found out

[Burgerman]

I had this discussion about lithium batts years ago. They said that if a normal user wore out lots of motors (and I do!) that they would likely blame the lithium battery as it means I could go much more distance every day. And that there may be some disagreements about replacing worn parts like tyres, motors etc.

Fortunately I am on a different scheme. They just write me a cheque every 3 years and I do my own thing. But it seems others are not as persuasive! This system should now be open to all. But they are fighting it! The communist NHS block dont like change!

[expresso]

i agree also - if alot happens to your chair and they know you use lithium etc, - they just blame the lithium for wearing out things - shows how much they know - means nothing the lithium - the only thing it means is your free to ride as long as you like i think everyone knows that i am running lithium in my case

vendors - sunrise they know but its not advertised - so i can easily say no i dont any more - or only on my old chairs that are not covered etc, - since my chair came with lead - i will be needing new lead in a year or two

i do have pictures they seen with lithium in there chairs - but still - who cares - its about you not them

[ex-Gooserider]

Is what the name? And which chair?

Expressos NEW chair is a sunrise medical Quickie 62x something. Or 64x something. My chair, same company, Q700r. Different options different countries.

Expresso's "NEW" 636 is not even close to your new chairs BM, it is essentially the same design as the F-55, except the frame is made from aluminum instead of steel and the front cross tube is more of a "V" profile where the F-55 is a flat bottomed "U" which makes it impossible to do a BM2 style modification... Since it's aluminum it is also harder to do the BM-3 style because of the issues with welding aluminum....

The swingarms and motors are different from the F-55, but basically the same 'swinging motor' style rear suspension, and no front suspension other than possibly a shock absorbing caster fork....

The Q500's and 700's (as far as I know, RWD versions are not available in the US) are more modern and have suspension on both the front and rear ends....

This is why I keep saying that if wanting a GOOD RWD chair, a US (Or Canadian AFAIK) resident needs to order it from an EU / UK source, and fly over to pick it up....

ex-Gooserider

[ex-Gooserider]

I had this discussion about lithium batts years ago. They said that if a normal user wore out lots of motors (and I do!) that they would likely blame the lithium battery as it means I could go much more distance every day. And that there may be some disagreements about replacing worn parts like tyres, motors etc.

Fortunately I am on a different scheme. They just write me a cheque every 3 years and I do my own thing. But it seems others are not as persuasive! This system should now be open to all. But they are fighting it! The communist NHS block dont like change!

IANAL, but US law on warranties is that owner repairs w/ non original parts are not supposed to void any remaining warranty on the rest of the item, UNLESS the manufacturer can show that the repair caused the damage that led to a warranty claim... (I.e those stickers on the back of things that say "warranty void if seal broken" are NOT legally effective....) Since the chair warranties don't have any limits on how far you can go, improving your range w a lithium pack would not be grounds for voiding the warranty, unless they could prove that the battery directly caused the damage (I.e. by feeding it the wrong voltage?) and the 'burden of proof' would be on them....

Obviously they wouldn't cover the altered battery, but that shouldn't impact the coverage on anything else... Ditto changing tires, etc.

ex-Gooserider

[Burgerman]

Expresso's "NEW" 636 is not even close to your new chairs BM, it is essentially the same design as the F-55, except the frame is made from aluminum instead of steel and the front cross tube is more of a "V" profile where the F-55 is a flat bottomed "U" which makes it impossible to do a BM2 style modification... Since it's aluminum it is also harder to do the BM-3 style because of the issues with welding aluminum....

The swingarms and motors are different from the F-55, but basically the same 'swinging motor' style rear suspension, and no front suspension other than possibly a shock absorbing caster fork....

The Q500's and 700's (as far as I know, RWD versions are not available in the US) are more modern and have suspension on both the front and rear ends....

This is why I keep saying that if wanting a GOOD RWD chair, a US (Or Canadian AFAIK) resident needs to order it from an EU / UK source, and fly over to pick it up....

ex-Gooserider

I dont get it. They DO have at least the Q500 mid and hybrid chairs (lacking the front suspension of the Q700 F/R drive chairs). So they could easily also offer the rear drive one? They clearly manufacture it! But theres something preventing this in the US/Canada. Not just sunrise but almost all manufacturers. And no more advanced Q700R Q700F Q700M in the US at all. There must be some law or rules or FDA safety thing preventing them. Also theres 3 or 4 rear drive invacare chairs that are also missing in the US. My Brushless Storm Explore for e.g. And many others. Thats no longer brushless by the way. They figured it out...

[expresso]

i was told that they end up in the UK first and other countries because its easier to get them approved - crash tested in the EU - vs the stricter rules here in the US -

i dont know if thats true - the Rep. from Sunrise told me this - it may be true - i really dont know but sounds fishy to me and i really dont believe it - its what ever the market demands - or they force on us - most go with it and love there MWD FWD chairs - i couldnt care less for them

dosnt feel natural to me - but i can see how they can be useful - now it depends - i may be even open to a MWD but the V6 only -

first choice is always RWD and i plan to keep it that way - i will demo a V6 RWD on the next round

[Jay_x]

What is the exact make and model of this chair?

EDIT: now I see its a Quickie S 636

Is the center foot plate a custom add on? Or does that come like that from the factory?

[expresso]

my Chair is from Sunrise Medical

quickie 636 -- the seating is from Motion Concepts - where are you from ? USA ?

what is your insurance ? Medicare - Medicaid ?

https://www.sunrisemedical.com/

[Jay_x]

my Chair is from Sunrise Medical

quickie 636 -- the seating is from Motion Concepts - where are you from ? USA ?

what is your insurance ? Medicare - Medicaid ?

https://www.sunrisemedical.com/

Thanks, I am in the US, my provider is the VA.

so I will be getting a new chair at some point here and may get that exact model. Good to know about Motion Concepts because I need a center mount foot plate.

I am thinking this one or the Quickie Q500 H

[expresso]

the 636 is solid - if you can get - get the 646 same chair with 8.5 mph motors - my 636 is normally 6.5 mph - i upgraded to the faster motors -

ask the VA about Motion Concepts - Sunrise does not make a seat lift or center plate for this chair - Motion Concepts would do it


so if you can get seat lift - Recline tilt power feet - - Motion concepts would do it -


ask - nothing to loose - i bet you be fine and get it without a hassle -

[Jay_x]

how is the suspension and smoothness of the ride?

[expresso]

i havnt used the new chair yet - but my other chair - is fine - i use tube tires - makes a big difference

i do notice a difference with this chair vs the other one - same chair same motion seating but i think they improved it a little

i only use my new chair for 10 blocks - but what i notice is i can ride with the seating all the way in the down position - its fine the angle and seating position

i say thats good - - on my other chair - i have to be tilted to be comfortable - which makes the seating stress more - - since its not in a zero position

this one feels as if its fine in the zero position - i cant say for sure just yet - i have to use it for a bit first but i feel its a big improvement over the previous of 6 years ago --

i am sure with solid tires will be harder ride - i use Air and been fine past 6 years - feels very good comfortable -- i cant say how the stock original would feel or how long they last - the ones i use are real road tires - much stronger overall - i feel safer with them - i also add some sealant = better than nothing - works fine if within reason -

[Fusiongoat]

The VA should cover an S-646 SE as long as you show a need for speed. For example, you need to cross busy intersections or need to go multiple places on a tight schedule. The VA will also cover Bounder chairs or AmySystems.I've looked at the VA coverage criteria and they're very reasonable. They can even consider recreational use, but it can't be the sole justification. The only problem I foresee is they may not be able to purchase from Motion Concepts, but you can ask.

[expresso]

i agree the VA from what i seen others get from the VA - you may be able to get it - motion Concepts - you dont have to worry about

what happens is this - if you want the quickie 646 from sunrise - and need the seat lift - recline Center plate features - it will go to motion for the seating part

you dont have to ask for motion concepts - there is no other way - sunrise will supply the base- it goes to motion concepts to add in the seating center plate etc, - thats it

reason is sunrise does not offer seat lift center plate on the 636 646 222se chairs - all RWD chairs - they only offer a tilt option

anything else goes to Motion concepts

if you want a FWD or MWD from sunrise which i dont like - then they offer the seating options and no need for 3rd party -

bottom line pick a chair -and ask for it - if you want high speed - then 646 comes standard with 8.5 mph motors - i love it

if not 636 same chair but with 6.5 mph motors and 90A controller vs Rnet120 with the high speed 646 chair -

demo the chair - look over the order forms and try to understand the differnce - ask questions here -

i had to get the 636 model for insurance purpose - but added in the extras which make it a 646 - i was denied - i appealed - went to courts and won all the features i asked for - BUT the motors - i didnt make a good enough case for them i guess -

so i paid for them - for me its worth it - for someone else it may not be - but dont let that discourage you -
put in for what you need and what you want - then fight it ifs denied - dont let them tell you - its not covered or you wont get it etc,

go to court if you have to and let the judge decide - dont accept no from anyone but the final word - the courts

it may not get that far for you- thats worse case= nothing to loose but time if you have to figth for it i

[expresso]

Just got the tires in - front smooth ones - they are bit different from yours BM - but i noticed they are Hard - not soft - 4 ply 30psi rating -

are yours Hard also ?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B011O ... UTF8&psc=1

i got those - but mines are the same brand but have alot more writing on the side walls - i was expecting smoother sidewalls like the pic -

not a big deal - its all black - but my concern is the rubber its self - it feels stronger than my others for sure - wont be easy to puncture it - but wonder if the hardness has a Neg effect. ?

they are considered tubeless tires - should still be fine with a tube

[steves1977uk]

Those tyres look very scuffed if they're supposed to be brand new expresso. Were they advertised as being new or used?

Steve