C73 vs Frontier V6 motors

Power wheelchair board for REAL info!

POWERCHAIR MENU! www.wheelchairdriver.com/powerchair-stuff.htm

C73 vs Frontier V6 motors

Postby Fusiongoat » 26 Apr 2021, 21:59

Does anyone know if there's any practical difference between the motors on the c73 urban and the Frontier V6? One is 650W and one is 800W, but so what?
Fusiongoat
 
Posts: 131
Joined: 22 Jun 2019, 02:03

Re: C73 vs Frontier V6 motors

Postby Burgerman » 27 Apr 2021, 00:15

Yes so what. to know if they are more powerful or know if they have more torque you would need to know the motor impedance. The 650 watt thing is pretty useless. But what is more important really is the 90A v 120A controller as that is te limit to torque.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: C73 vs Frontier V6 motors

Postby Fusiongoat » 27 Apr 2021, 01:02

So, we would need to know the motor compensation setting for the c73 urban? I mean we know that the motors on the Frontier are good, but does anyone have access to the c73? Both come with 90A R-net, but I just bought two 120A controllers off ebay. One cost $123 and one cost $52 including shipping!
Fusiongoat
 
Posts: 131
Joined: 22 Jun 2019, 02:03

Re: C73 vs Frontier V6 motors

Postby ex-Gooserider » 27 Apr 2021, 01:17

The watt rating on motors is pretty useless in figuring out how strong they are, as all it really says is how good the motors are at getting rid of heat - take the same motor, add cooling fins and it gets a higher watt rating... But it makes impressive sounding advertising copy so it's what we get stuck with...

In theory, the lower the impedance, (AC resistance) the more current the motor could pull at a given voltage, and amps make torque. Since our controllers limit the current by dropping the effective voltage sent to the motors, this means the more efficient motor gets sent a lower voltage per Ohm's law... The motor comp figure also includes the resistance of all the cables and connectors, (which will be higher than the motor impedance, so tend to swamp it) and is also a conservative value, so most of the time the value will be pretty much the same, with the biggest difference being whether it is a 2-brush or 4-brush motor.

Assuming the motors are physically interchangeable and priced about the same, I'd go for the higher watt rating on general principles, but I'm not sure there is a lot of practical difference.

ex-Gooserider
T-5, ASIA-B
Jazzy 1100
Jazzy Select 6
Quickie Q-7
Invacare Mariner
Want to make / get a better chair, ideally one that stands.
User avatar
ex-Gooserider
 
Posts: 5962
Joined: 15 Feb 2011, 06:17
Location: Billerica, MA. USA

Re: C73 vs Frontier V6 motors

Postby Fusiongoat » 27 Apr 2021, 01:22

ex-Gooserider wrote:The watt rating on motors is pretty useless in figuring out how strong they are, as all it really says is how good the motors are at getting rid of heat - take the same motor, add cooling fins and it gets a higher watt rating... But it makes impressive sounding advertising copy so it's what we get stuck with...

In theory, the lower the impedance, (AC resistance) the more current the motor could pull at a given voltage, and amps make torque. Since our controllers limit the current by dropping the effective voltage sent to the motors, this means the more efficient motor gets sent a lower voltage per Ohm's law... The motor comp figure also includes the resistance of all the cables and connectors, (which will be higher than the motor impedance, so tend to swamp it) and is also a conservative value, so most of the time the value will be pretty much the same, with the biggest difference being whether it is a 2-brush or 4-brush motor.

Assuming the motors are physically interchangeable and priced about the same, I'd go for the higher watt rating on general principles, but I'm not sure there is a lot of practical difference.

ex-Gooserider

They are both 4 pole, but the 800 watt are a $2500 upgrade!
Fusiongoat
 
Posts: 131
Joined: 22 Jun 2019, 02:03

Re: C73 vs Frontier V6 motors

Postby expresso » 27 Apr 2021, 01:36

from what i can tell they use the 90A module on that chair -

i was looking that over a while back myself - but i noticed they both had 800watt motors - i may be mistaken - i compared both chairs spec side by side

i could be wrong - - either way they say you can easily change out the street 3 inch tires to the off road ATV tire - all you need is there spacer -
Quickie 636 - 230ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 11916
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17

Re: C73 vs Frontier V6 motors

Postby Fusiongoat » 27 Apr 2021, 01:44

expresso wrote:from what i can tell they use the 90A module on that chair -

i was looking that over a while back myself - but i noticed they both had 800watt motors - i may be mistaken - i compared both chairs spec side by side

i could be wrong - - either way they say you can easily change out the street 3 inch tires to the off road ATV tire - all you need is there spacer -

You are wrong :fencing https://mobility-usa.com/pdfs/of-us-c73-compact.pdf
The 800 watt is an upgrade
Fusiongoat
 
Posts: 131
Joined: 22 Jun 2019, 02:03

Re: C73 vs Frontier V6 motors

Postby expresso » 27 Apr 2021, 01:50

maybe but look at this

https://mobility-usa.com/pdfs/of-us-fro ... id-rwd.pdf



https://mobility-usa.com/pdfs/of-us-fro ... at-rwd.pdf


they both show 800 watt motors - nothing about an upgrade -

look at both RWD models - the model you show is a MWD or FWD - its not a RWD -
Quickie 636 - 230ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 11916
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17

Re: C73 vs Frontier V6 motors

Postby Fusiongoat » 27 Apr 2021, 02:52

expresso wrote:maybe but look at this

https://mobility-usa.com/pdfs/of-us-fro ... id-rwd.pdf



https://mobility-usa.com/pdfs/of-us-fro ... at-rwd.pdf


they both show 800 watt motors - nothing about an upgrade -

look at both RWD models - the model you show is a MWD or FWD - its not a RWD -


I get what you're saying, but I'm only interested in the MWD. The RWD doesn't have the same capabilities. For example, the MWD is rated for a 12°slope the RWD is only 6°. Anyway, it's true that it's simpler to upgrade from the hybrid to the AT, but I'm looking at starting with regular group 3(c73) and getting to all terrain in the cheapest way The hybrid is already an HD chair.
Fusiongoat
 
Posts: 131
Joined: 22 Jun 2019, 02:03

Re: C73 vs Frontier V6 motors

Postby expresso » 27 Apr 2021, 02:58

it can be confusing - in your case the MWD - dosnt look like there is enough space for a larger tire - it may hit the front caster tire

from the looks of the picture - with the motors - i dont even think you would feel any difference between 650 and 800 motor

its true with RWD - if going up hills - can be tricky and scary at times - not as stable feeling as a MWD V6 etc, my chairs tip back enough -

at times at certain places i have not gone a certain way because of it - but its rare i run into things like that unless i go looking for it
Quickie 636 - 230ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 11916
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17

Re: C73 vs Frontier V6 motors

Postby expresso » 27 Apr 2021, 03:03

order form shows for $650 you get reducing driving speed when lifted etc, haha

they charge you for something that gets done in software - unless they use hardware - which makes no sense since you can adjust it in software
Quickie 636 - 230ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 11916
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17

Re: C73 vs Frontier V6 motors

Postby Fusiongoat » 27 Apr 2021, 03:32

expresso wrote:
from the looks of the picture - with the motors - i dont even think you would feel any difference between 650 and 800 motor

Thanks Can you elaborate? You just mean because they're both 4 pole? It's tough because I can afford the motor upgrade, but it seems like a waste of money.
Fusiongoat
 
Posts: 131
Joined: 22 Jun 2019, 02:03

Re: C73 vs Frontier V6 motors

Postby expresso » 27 Apr 2021, 03:50

i dont know for sure as a fact - its just my feeling that they are not much of a difference - nothing that an avg person would even notice i dont think

my motors 4 pole i think they show 550 watts - BM is the expert and he says its hard to know based on watt numbers

maybe they handle more before heating up - so thats a plus if you do alot of off road or hills etc, -

you can look at it this way - even though you can afford it - in that case you can do this - get the reg. motors - free with the chair

if you really feel you need more - you can then buy anyway ? i bet you wont feel that way - but only you can know for sure

you should demo the chair - it will have the 650 motors - then you can know for sure if its going to work for you - also curious if you ask them

what would they say is the difference - they have to say something - like stronger better to handle togure or off road - if what they say is even true or not - they have to say something - being they are both 4 pole both same speed - just wattage shows different and if wattage it not an indication of a better motor - how can we know - we have take what they say and make a choice

i would take the free setup first - nothing to loose -
Quickie 636 - 230ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 11916
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17

Re: C73 vs Frontier V6 motors

Postby Burgerman » 27 Apr 2021, 06:22

I wouldnt worry about watts.

Its about how much they can take without being overloaded in continuous rating, and on AC motors its about continuous rating on best efficiency. Those are mostly induction motors that behave totally differently.

Consider this. Your controller allows either 90A OR 120A depending on which one your chair has. I think the cheaper chair has the 90A one in the US. The 120A one on the older X5 or used on many chairs allows a huge maximum stall torque increase on both motors of around 30%. DC motors draws the highest current at max load. I.e when you are stuck in a hole. Or trying o climb a curb. Or attempting to turn in place in a difficult position. Now consider that the average DC powerchair motor takes between 200 and 350A when at full load and stalled. This is the highest current the motors ever take. When you NEED the power cause stuck... And the limiting factor here is the LIMIT of 90A or 120A of the controller. As its much less than a bare motor can pull from a battery when loaded.

Also consider that even a cheap 2 pole motor can take more than 120A at stall. And it may be rated at 250 watts typically. Not 350, 450, 550, 750, or any other greater figure. And also that at the same 90 or 120A limit makes the SAME stall torque (if rated at the same max road speed). It may make less torque however depending on load as its speed increases from stall to a higher speed. This is determined by its impedance and not by a watts rating.

Its also important to understand that as impedance if lower (as on a typical quality 4 pole motor) increases stall current of the MOTOR but then that makes no difference at stall in torque. Because you are limited by the controller max current. It does increase efficiency. So a higher motor rated watts. Less wasted as heat. But it does make a difference as speed increases and so the controller limit does NOT limit the torque. So the chair will not slow as much on hills etc. But it cant make more peak max torque. And conversely (and very non intuitively) the BATTERY current and so range, is LOWER with a motor that draws more current at stall than one that doesent. So under heavy loads at low speed a 4 pole low impedance motor will take less battery power. I can explain why but its half a page... And its quite possible that a higher watt rating can give you a lower impedance as well. But its not nessasarily the case.

The easiest way to determine if the motor has a low impedance and so is better is by looking at the manufacturers Motor Impedance setting in the R-Net software. That would let you see if the higher watt motor also has a lower impedance setting.

If its set to say 35mOhms thats good. If its set to 45, thats also good but very slightly less so as the motor must be slightly lower impedance. But doubtful if enough of a difference to detect using it. A typical 2 pole will be 65 to 130mOhm for e.g. Which is terrible. And may even reach the point where its not controller limited but motor limited. And so really DOES have less torque that isnt reaching the 120 Amp or 90A limit.

So you want to know motor impedance rather than watts... Watts on a DC motor is an almost arbitrary figure. Related to efficiency and max continuous allowable power rating. Impedance determines the actual power at a given voltage (limited at stall where it actually matters by the max allowed by the controller).

Why a continuous rating?

Because a 120A controller means you can still put 120A (Amps = torque directly at a given max ROAD speed) at a maximum 24V. And that is 2280 watts per motor. Which means that a 250 watt motor or a 750 watt motor BOTH recieve many many times the "rated" watts value. So watts is pretty meaningless if you want to know how well your chair will dig itself out of a hole. But the controller is all important. You want the 120A one! Also, the lower the motor impedance the better the motor load compensation algo works IF SET CORRECTLY and most are set a little too conservatively.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: C73 vs Frontier V6 motors

Postby Rollin Positive » 30 Apr 2021, 17:25

Fusiongoat wrote:Does anyone know if there's any practical difference between the motors on the c73 urban and the Frontier V6? One is 650W and one is 800W, but so what?


The c73 was created has a hybrid for endusers in the USA to get a off-road base funded though Medicare, Medicaid.

Then once approved you could add things like the off road package, or the bigger motors etc. and some have gotten the chair full funded others pay out of pocket for the add ons

In soft beach sand the bigger motors also help you navigate easier with out getting stuck as easy
Rollin Positive
 
Posts: 428
Joined: 14 Aug 2015, 01:32
Location: Peoria, Arizona

Re: C73 vs Frontier V6 motors

Postby Fusiongoat » 30 Apr 2021, 19:51

Rollin Positive wrote:
Fusiongoat wrote:Does anyone know if there's any practical difference between the motors on the c73 urban and the Frontier V6? One is 650W and one is 800W, but so what?


In soft beach sand the bigger motors also help you navigate easier with out getting stuck as easy

I forgot that the c73 motors are lower speed, so if anything they should be better (higher torque) than the V6 motors. Unless the C73 motors are lower quality and higher impedance, but they are both 4 pole motors, so it's hard to believe the V6 motors are better. I don't think I can know for sure without someone hooking a dongle to a C73. The 5.5 mph on the C73 is odd. It doesn't have to be that slow to qualify as a group 3. Some of the better performance of the V6 must be caused by length. It is just more stable... I was looking at the Amy Systems R3. Seems nice, but the frame is short. Not sure... Also, it has wider tires and 9" casters available...
Fusiongoat
 
Posts: 131
Joined: 22 Jun 2019, 02:03

Re: C73 vs Frontier V6 motors

Postby expresso » 30 Apr 2021, 20:03

those speeds are way too slow - whats the point - i mean come on 5.5 mph - might as well walk it be faster

thats what turned me off from them to begin with - the RWD is a little better - still unclear - some places i see 6.2 - others 6.5 may not seem like much - but when we are down to the bone - every little extra helps

i feel 6.5 mph - is a good Min. speed

anything less wouuld be struggling pushing on the JS knob to make it move faster- and it dosnt


Can they just make them all 6.5mph base and maybe 8 mph option at least - would be more appealing to many other users
Quickie 636 - 230ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 11916
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17

Re: C73 vs Frontier V6 motors

Postby Burgerman » 30 Apr 2021, 23:33

Thats because there is no "mph" ratig really. They are made in metric china. Or even australia. Where Kilometers per hour is all everyone knows. And shipped to metric compamies all over the world. The motors you call 6 or 6.2 or 6.5 are all the same. They are all 10kph motors. The differences you see, 5 or 6.5 are because they are rounded up or down. The real speed is both nominal, because tyres vary slightly from the 14 inch diameter they should be. and because it depends on battery voltage, programming setting for voltage, chair weight etc.

So the closest you will get is 6.2mph (6.213712) because thats the closest to the real speed which is 10kph.

In the same way, all your 8, 8.5 mph motors are really 13kph. Why? Because thats the legal maximum in a lot of countries. And so technically 8.077825mph.

But because other factors also determine speed, these figures are approximate anyway.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: C73 vs Frontier V6 motors

Postby expresso » 01 May 2021, 00:36

the specs - it says 6.2 then in other specs of the same chair - shows 6.5

maybe all the same motors but wont be the same speed - maybe 6.2 and 6.5 may be the same - which one - slower or faster one ?

5.5 mph same motor but slower - so it wont be the same - i know a user who got a pride long ago - turns out its 5.8 - and it feels it

maybe even slower - his older chair is 6mph and is faster - but not the same chair - no tilt etc, he dosnt understand that - so no use explaining the facts

it should be the same in the specs then - should all be 6.5mph standard - then options for slower 5.5 - or 5mph and should offer an 8 mph

let the user decide what works best for them - legal limit is 8.5 - sunrise does it - bounder also now -
Quickie 636 - 230ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 11916
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17

Re: C73 vs Frontier V6 motors

Postby Burgerman » 01 May 2021, 01:11

You are taking too much notice of advertising claims.

The part numbers for our 10kph chairs motors are the same as the 6.5 or 6mph or 6.2mph ones shown on the US parts sites. Where there are differences it because of motor hub differences. Or cable length. They are not different motors.

the specs - it says 6.2 then in other specs of the same chair - shows 6.5

maybe all the same motors but wont be the same speed - maybe 6.2 and 6.5 may be the same - which one - slower or faster one ?

Both and neither. The answer is that it depends on a bunch of variables. There IS no 6.2 or 6.5 motors. Those figures are just rounded up or down from the 10kph actual rating. And no it wont go 10kph either!

Remember that a 6.2mph motor doesent go at 6,2 mph. Its actual wheel rpm UNLOADED is around 7mph. The chair averages approx 6.2 under average conditions. The chair will therefore be faster downhill, or with higher tyre pressures, or with different brand tyres or if its programmed with 22.5, 22.8, 23.2, etc volts. It will also vary with the chairs weight. Same motor. A 190kg chair like the salsa will be maybe 0.5mph slower than a 90kg one on the flat compared to say my BM2. Add a 20 stone user and that may be an even bigger difference. AGM batteries like the odyssey ones sag in volts less under load. So those will give a slightly higher speed on the flat, and a considerable benefit up a hill.

There IS no specific accurate speed It varies for many reasons.
My salsa and my q700r chairs are using the same basic everything. They are both 6.2mph (really 10kph) chairs. One is considerably faster than the other due to tyre shape and small difference in voltage in programming.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: C73 vs Frontier V6 motors

Postby expresso » 01 May 2021, 01:23

with out touching them

stock - 6.5 vs 8.5 - theres a big difference - its not the same -

i understand 6.2 and 6.5 could very well be the same - not sure why they print those specs different

when all say UP to - meaning of course - its top speed but most likely less depending on features - seating etc.


volts raised thats another thing -

when i get my next chair - i want a RWD V6 - slow for me but by then i may not mind as much - since i will be adding lithium and then volts to 25.5 max i can use - and that should make it a comfortable speed

i planned to do that to my new chair - but since sunrise are idiots - wasnt able to get Rnet 120 on the 6.5 motors -

i should have gave it a bit of more thought - i could have just took it even with the 90a PM - and just tried it with volts etc, - if i felt i needed more - i could have swapped it out - both PM and motors -

so i just went high speed from the start - i think 6.5 base - add in the volts - can get close to 8 - depends with tires also - on the sunrise chair

on the V6 tires wont be touched - so just volts - at worst it would be about 7.5mph to 8 - not bad
Quickie 636 - 230ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 11916
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17

Re: C73 vs Frontier V6 motors

Postby Burgerman » 01 May 2021, 01:27

should all be 6.5mph standard - then options for slower 5.5 - or 5mph and should offer an 8 mph

let the user decide what works best for them - legal limit is 8.5 - sunrise does it - bounder also now -


Theres a very good reason for that...
10KPH motors (your 6, 6.2, 6.5) are the best balance of torque range and control for most people when mated to a 120A controller and group24 lead. As a setup, its the best for most normal people.

Going to 13kph motors (your 8, 8.5mph) NEEDS more than 120A in order to have good control, adequate torque for curb or threshold climbing, and zero turns in a rear drive chair. And since none exists, that is a problem. Since this also takes more amps by around 30% at every speed, every turn, every joystick movement you also need a battery with around a 30% greater capacity or suffer voltage drop, crap range. And those are too heavy unless you go lithium. And they dont. Its also a bad idea if you work your chair hard, as I do as the extra current means more heat. So it rolls back power and thats very frustrating and wears out motors faster too.

That faster motor results in the same problems as the old pride edge. They had 5 or 6mph motors. But they also had smaller batteries. 50Ah. And everyone complained about range, and initially torque. So they had to increase controller Amps up to 120. Why? Battery sagged under load. So the 100A gave inadequate torque. And battery lifespan was problematic. As many will tell you. Everything is a balance.

And the GRP24,10kph (6.2mph) and 120A controller is a perfect balance! All components play well together. From an engineering perspective 8mph just isnt. Unless you are almost weightless. And live somewhere flat.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: C73 vs Frontier V6 motors

Postby Fusiongoat » 01 May 2021, 01:57

What I don't get is where they get 5.5 mph for the C73 motors. That's like 9 km/h, but that sounds like programming, doesn't it? Surely they didn't buy a motor with such a random speed... This is why I'm skeptical of all this. I did know that the "6.5 mph" motors are the same as the "6.2 mph"". I guess 5.5 mph could be gearing, but why bother? Could they really cost any less? Does Amy Systems use AMT? Is there any reason to be skeptical of Amy's motors?
Fusiongoat
 
Posts: 131
Joined: 22 Jun 2019, 02:03

Re: C73 vs Frontier V6 motors

Postby expresso » 01 May 2021, 02:10

you may be right but thats not why they are doing it - because i was not able to get a 6.5mph motor with Rnet 120A - - that was not on there mind as you say.

they have there own stupid reasons which make no sense - i was only able to get the Rnet 120A if i got the 8.5mph and that speed works fine for me - i dont feel limited even on hills -

for some you may feel it - i dont -

6.5mph you get the 90A - this was on my chair from sunrise - 636 - if you want Rnet 120A on the 636 then you have to get 8.5mph motors

or else you will only get the 90A - no way around it - i tried - i was willing to take it 6.5 with the 120A - but they wouldnt do it
so i just got the 8.5 motors to get the 120A - -


what you said may be correct - but its not the reason - since i cant get it that way - for what ever reason they dont even know -

who knows on there new model 500H or R if we get it - if they updated the specs with options and allow it - time will tell - or can check it now on the website - order form - i never looked because i dont like the 500H - if they make a RWD version - i would be interested again
Quickie 636 - 230ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 11916
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17

Re: C73 vs Frontier V6 motors

Postby Burgerman » 01 May 2021, 02:21

On the 700R all of them are 4 pole. All are 120A. All of them are CJSM2. All of them have the gyro module. Centre mount power footrest is and option.

On the 500R they have a choice of VR2, and various modules/joysticks. Or R-Net 90 or R-net 120A. And LED, or LCD or CJSM2. Centre mount power footrest is an option.

And on all the chairs 8kph HD 4pole, 10KPH, or 13kph are available. As is a 10A charger, and all he seating options. And black tyres are standard equipment.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: C73 vs Frontier V6 motors

Postby expresso » 01 May 2021, 02:28

https://www.sunrisemedical.com/getattac ... -Form.aspx

i am sorry i went off course here - this was about the Frontier motors


thats the new chair here and they now show 8 mph instead of 8.5 they shown before on my chair - and get this - now if you get a seat lift - you cant get 8mph motors -

you can get all you want here but you wont get 120A with 6.5mph motors - on the 636 - they wont do it - group 4 yes - upgrade motors - then yes you can get it - and this H is a mix of MWD and RWD - they even say it -

it looks fine to me if the anti tippers were not on the ground 24/7 - i bet they wont get the RWD model - i love to see it -

sorry for going off track here -
Quickie 636 - 230ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 11916
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17

Re: C73 vs Frontier V6 motors

Postby Fusiongoat » 01 May 2021, 03:16

Ok, so I see 4 pole AMT should be about the same as 4 pole Linx... Amy Lior uses amt, right? As for no 120A R-net w/6.5 mph motors on Quickie, you think anyone would notice if you just swapped controllers? I'm not saying I'd do that, but I doubt they'd notice.
Fusiongoat
 
Posts: 131
Joined: 22 Jun 2019, 02:03

Re: C73 vs Frontier V6 motors

Postby expresso » 01 May 2021, 03:32

Fusiongoat wrote:Ok, so I see 4 pole AMT should be about the same as 4 pole Linx... Amy Lior uses amt, right? As for no 120A R-net w/6.5 mph motors on Quickie, you think anyone would notice if you just swapped controllers? I'm not saying I'd do that, but I doubt they'd notice.



no not at all - i am not worried about doing things to my chair when i get it home - its vegas - what happens in vegas stays in vegas

if i wasnt so pissed off and gave it some more though - i should have done that - i could have - i have spare 120A - and ISM 6 if needed

but i have 2 Rnet 120A - tow CSJSM2 also - reason i wanted those items on the chair ordered that way was for future repairs - etc,

if or when my motors go - which they will - they would have to be covered replaced with same - that was one thing i though was worth

but i agreed to the 6.5mph - i never though i would have a problem getting the 120A - i was approved for it - but sunrise said no - i cant unless i go high speed motors

so i just fuck - give me the motors

i should have and could have taken it with slower motors 90A - and tried it - if i didnt like it - swap out to 120A and even have a spare set of 8.5 motors for my other chair -

so i could have - i was just pissed with this - if i didnt have court hearing for this - i might have to just cancelled the whole thing and start over after giving it more thought -

its done now - speed wise - its comfortable - not too fast - and not slow more important
Quickie 636 - 230ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 11916
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17

Re: C73 vs Frontier V6 motors

Postby Burgerman » 01 May 2021, 05:57

i am sorry i went off course here - this was about the Frontier motors


thats the new chair here and they now show 8 mph instead of 8.5 they shown before on my chair - and get this - now if you get a seat lift - you cant get 8mph motors -


Its actually 13kph... Rounded to some arbitrary mph figure. Actually just over 8mph. Which is 8.077825 mph if you want a accurate number. The reality is anywhere from 7.5 to 8.5.

And why do you suppose you cant get 8mph with seat lift? Clue is that seat lift adds considerable weight. And that needs more torque and the faster motors give less.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: C73 vs Frontier V6 motors

Postby expresso » 01 May 2021, 14:00

its been fine for me having 8.5 and a seat lift - but the seat lift never came from Sunrise before on my chairs

thats why they lower the speed on there other MWD and FWD chairs with seat lift - those are spec. to 8mph

its really the same motor - so dont get it - how do you spec one to 8 and another to 8.5 - could it be the volts are different on the motors ?

BM you have those motors 8mph - check the label on the side - RPM and Volts etc, what does it show ?

210 is the RPM for the 8.5 mph - 22.5V -

the new chair 500H is spec for 12.5Kph speed 8 mph

before they all said 8.5mph 13Kph -

your saying its just a number but not correct - so was never correct ? and why do that anyway - just spec it as it is - - if its 8 or 9 or 10 what ever

so that rules out highspeed motors if getting the 500H - since a seat lift is needed - more and more reasons not to like it -

on top of the main reason - anti tippers -

i bet they will sell fine also - wont have a choice - mines will be gone from the line up - and i bet they will remove the 646 also shortly after

maybe the 500R or 700R will replace that one - its also confusing how to get the Rnet 120A - seems you have to get a group 4 chair to get it or have 3 actuators to function - then its allowed on the slower motors instead of the 90A if you dont have 3 - then you stuck with the 90A and they wont upgrade it
Quickie 636 - 230ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 11916
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17

Next

Return to Everything Powerchair

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Gregg and 119 guests

 

  eXTReMe Tracker