New chair time.. Wait, not again?

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New chair time.. Wait, not again?

Postby Fusiongoat » 07 May 2021, 01:20

The DME folks agreed to take back the Bounder and it's now gone from my life. I can't really explain, but there was a good reason I couldn't use it and they quickly agreed, so they deserve credit for that. So now I have to go through the new chair process again. I think I will just get a Frontier V6 MWD, but I have some interest in the Amy R3, but that's more of a worst case scenario. Can anyone tell me if the V6 Hybrid is the same as the V6 AT, but with smaller tires or is there something more that I'm missing? Also, I see that changing between the different drive tires is easy, but do they have split rims and and an adapter or what exactly? I now have Medicare Advantage and and Medicaid and I'll ask them to submit to both, but the all terrain part might be an issue. To upgrade from the c73 involves a base upgrade and a motor upgrade, but that seems bogus because the higher level chair would include different motors already. Any thoughts on what I should try to pay if I have to upgrade? I was thinking the difference in rate between group 3 and group 3 HD. That's like $2k. I know the the V6 AT is group 4, but the MSRP is the same as the Hybrid so I'm guessing the price that the dealer pays is the same...
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Re: New chair time.. Wait, not again?

Postby Burgerman » 07 May 2021, 02:16

I can't really explain, but there was a good reason I couldn't use it

But that was the interesting bit! Now we are all left hanging.


I cant really help. All this group 2 3 4 nonsense and all this hybrid/and AT stuff is just as much the same nonsense. The only difference is a skinny wheel/tyre or the fatter ones. Or both. Or one of each if you want. Theres also a 3rd option in between the two. And if it were up to me a 4th option for most daily use and they dont offer it...

These would be better for concrete/tarmacpavements and indoor use than any of those it comes with. And are the ones I use on the salsa.

As for motors, you will never detect any difference. They are both limited to the 90A power module for max torque.
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120/70-8 TUBELESS and alloy rims.
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Re: New chair time.. Wait, not again?

Postby Fusiongoat » 07 May 2021, 02:54

Burgerman wrote:
I can't really explain, but there was a good reason I couldn't use it

But that was the interesting bit! Now we are all left hanging.


I cant really help. All this group 2 3 4 nonsense and all this hybrid/and AT stuff is just as much the same nonsense. The only difference is a skinny wheel/tyre or the fatter ones. Or both. Or one of each if you want. Theres also a 3rd option in between the two. And if it were up to me a 4th option for most daily use and they dont offer it...

These would be better for concrete/tarmacpavements and indoor use than any of those it comes with. And are the ones I use on the salsa.

As for motors, you will never detect any difference. They are both limited to the 90A power module for max torque.


Well, there's barely a warranty on the PM so the 90A won't be an issue for long... Those tires use an 8 in rim? I'm confused. Any opinion on the Amysystems R3? Seems kind of short at 35in, but has a decent incline rating of 10°. I saw some video of it on decent terrain with 14X4 in tires, but am a bit skeptical.
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Re: New chair time.. Wait, not again?

Postby Burgerman » 07 May 2021, 03:04

Never saw one but its a rebranded quickie isnt it?
Those tires use an 8 in rim? I'm confused.


Why?

They are these but a different brand. download/file.php?id=15601&mode=view
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Re: New chair time.. Wait, not again?

Postby Fusiongoat » 07 May 2021, 03:26

[quote="Burgerman"]Never saw one but its a rebranded quickie isnt it?
[quote]
I don't think so. For one thing the caster arm is linked to the drive wheel via the "suspension" and the Quickie RWD chairs aren't like that, are they? It's some kind of strange RWD with extra rear casters, but maybe it's a modified Quickie.
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Re: New chair time.. Wait, not again?

Postby Dan » 07 May 2021, 03:35

One man's ideal chair is another man's nightmare. So its hard to recommend something.

You should think about where you will be using it the most, what type of seating you need and the environment that it's going to be used in.
If you're normal weight and will be using the chair inside you don't even need the 120amp controller. Having said that I would prefer at least a 90amp one. Also for just indoor use I have found that the smaller Group 22NF mk gel batteries get me through the day no problem, on a MWD chair.

I have a dedicated outdoor chair.

Have a think about what type of seating you need first.
I'm a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude.
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Re: New chair time.. Wait, not again?

Postby Burgerman » 07 May 2021, 09:17

I don't think so. For one thing the caster arm is linked to the drive wheel via the "suspension" and the Quickie RWD chairs aren't like that, are they? It's some kind of strange RWD with extra rear casters, but maybe it's a modified Quickie.


Yes they offer one that way. In fact theres several if you look at the european ones too.

america hybrid
https://www.sunrisemedical.com/power-wh ... s-6-series

europe
https://www.sunrisemedical.eu/powered-w ... -sedeo-pro
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Re: New chair time.. Wait, not again?

Postby Fusiongoat » 07 May 2021, 18:29

Burgerman wrote:
I don't think so. For one thing the caster arm is linked to the drive wheel via the "suspension" and the Quickie RWD chairs aren't like that, are they? It's some kind of strange RWD with extra rear casters, but maybe it's a modified Quickie.


Yes they offer one that way. In fact theres several if you look at the european ones too.

america hybrid
https://www.sunrisemedical.com/power-wh ... s-6-series

europe
https://www.sunrisemedical.eu/powered-w ... -sedeo-pro

Ok, I see the suspension is more or less the same. The R3 has more options than the older Quickies e.g. seat elevator and the combo of 120A R-net and 10 km/h motors. Remember that Sunrise told expresso that they can't combine 120A R-net and 6.5 mph motors on a RWD Quickie czy I'm not excited about this chair, but it has all the basic features one would want. I do prefer steel, but that's a personal preference based on how I beat up the frame.
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Re: New chair time.. Wait, not again?

Postby Burgerman » 07 May 2021, 20:59

On ALL the hybrids the suspention and drive wheel position is a little different. They are really mid drives sold ar rear/hybrid because they moved the drive wheel slightly.

In europe, there are Front, Mid, Hybrid, Rear:
Q500F Q500M Q500H Q500R
Q700F Q700M Q700R

And there are a bunch of other sunrise/quickie chairs inc basic rear drive Q100R, Q200R, etc too. The Salsa is actually stoll orderable too. Thats the Salsa R2. And some other sunrise rear drives. Just to confuse things. But only the Q500 chairs and no R or rear drive are currently available in north america. But I dont think that will stay that way.
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Re: New chair time.. Wait, not again?

Postby Burgerman » 07 May 2021, 21:22

8 inch rims, confused you.

BOTH of these are 8 inch rims.
The grey one is a standard sized mobility drive wheel with a standard 3 inch tyre. Sold as 14 inch x 3. Same tyre size as on the hybrid V6/V4. These are skinny and look daft on the X5/V6/V4 chairs. Mostly because the caster wheels then end up wider apart than the drive wheels which makes no sense.

The fatter tyre, is stronger, 4 ply, tubeless so suffers no tube issues and so much harder to deflate with a nail or whatever. And a tubeless 8 inch rim. The difference is that this 8 inch rim is 3.5 inches wide, and the tyre is a 120/70-8 4 ply tubeless. That means its 5 inches wide (a tiny fraction less), instead of 3. Its the same diameter as your V4 wheels. Its slightly narrower than the off road tyres. Its wider than the narrow hybrid's tyres. And its a lot tougher than all of them!

But they dont offer this. Its a cheap rim from china, and will need an adapter making. I use it on the Salsa. Tyre s and rims. download/file.php?id=15601&mode=view

Those would work great and look great on the V4/V6 rear/mid drive magic chairs. And way way harder wearing than the off road ones. For dry use, indoors, etc. You would save 1.5 inches width over the all terrain tyres. But they need a higher 30psi pressure. Will increase range too.
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Re: New chair time.. Wait, not again?

Postby Fusiongoat » 07 May 2021, 22:43

I just think the 120/70-8 is strange. It's metric, but than it's Imperial. It votes to leave the EU, but then it stays as long as possible. It's like Christopher Marlowe's The Tragical History of the Life and Death of Doctor Faustus. You cut a deal with the devil (the metric system), but then you try to buy back your soul by using 8" rims...
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Re: New chair time.. Wait, not again?

Postby Burgerman » 08 May 2021, 02:17

Every motorcycle bike, truck, car on the road (almost) has inch diameter rims. And metric width and profile. With the odd "small tyre" exceptions as they just carry on from yesteryear.

So my van for e.g is using 255/60 - 19. And the 19 bit is Inch. The rest is 255mm wide, with a sidewall that is 60% of this 255.

The 120/70 - 8 tyre, is then 120mm wide, 70% aspect ratio so has a sidewall that is 70% of 120mm which is 84mm. And it fits a 8 inch diameter rim.

So now we know that its 120 mm wide.
We know the overall diameter is 84 plus 84mm plus the 8 inch rim. 8 inches is around 200mm. So 88+200+88 = 368mm divide by 25.4 = 14.4 inches diameter.


Its worth reading that carefully as it lets you understand how to size and compare modern tyre sizing with the old inch ones. Like 3.00 x 8 as stock. (3+8+3= 14 inches) diameter.
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Re: New chair time.. Wait, not again?

Postby Burgerman » 08 May 2021, 08:37

If I had a V4 or V6 majic chair, I would use its stock 145/70 - 6 tyres/wheels only for soft ground/mud/etc. On tarmac/concrete you will wear them out very fast! I got only 6 weeks per set of those 145 tyres. So good for off road in winter. Or maybe sand.

I would use these download/file.php?id=15606&mode=view for hard surfaces, roard, footpaths, and indoors. They are strong, tubeless, and a little narrower. No good on snow, wet grass, etc. But I only surface in summer now my dog is gone... Save a little width, still look cool.

I would fit these to the stock rims, with a spacer in needed (a fraction of an inch wider than 145 tyres), for grass, summer, dirt, pavements and roads/footpaths if width was no problem. They last forever, and are puncture free kevlar belt and just work everywhere except mud better than the 145/70 off road tyres. They are Kenda K shield 15 (actually 14.5) x 6.00 x 6 tyres. Can be tube or tubeless dep on rim type. Much tougher than the 145/70 tyres. And can be low pressure. http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/BM3-con ... -small.jpg
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Re: New chair time.. Wait, not again?

Postby ex-Gooserider » 11 May 2021, 02:00

Burgerman wrote:Every motorcycle bike, truck, car on the road (almost) has inch diameter rims. And metric width and profile. With the odd "small tyre" exceptions as they just carry on from yesteryear.


Actually pedal bikes and manual chairs at least have TWO size systems, the traditional one w/ inch size rims and the ISO (or IRTO) spec that is entirely metric. I think there is an equivalent ISO standard sizing for other sorts of tires that are entirely metric but I haven't looked into it...

The ISO metric sizing is a BIG improvement since there are multiple different "inch" tire sizes that use the same nominal inch rim diameter but are actually using different size rims... In manual chairs this hits because one of the most common sizes is a 24 x 1 3/8" (ISO 540mm rim diameter) which is NOT the same as a 24 x 1.375" (ISO 508mm rim)

I actually took advantage of this by making a set of off-road wheels for my manual by lacing a set of 508 rims onto chair hubs, which let me use fatter tires w/ minimal change in the wheel OD. (actually I used super wide tires that increased it by one inch, but swapping the 4" front casters for 6" ones makes up for it so the chair stays level, just 1" taller)

At least on other vehicle types they are consistent on the rim diameter being the same regardless of how they describe the rest of the tire.

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Re: New chair time.. Wait, not again?

Postby Rollin Positive » 11 May 2021, 02:25

If your looking at the Frontier c73 its put in to Medicare (not both) Medicaid is the back up

So the chair starts as a group 3 with upgrades seat elevation, tilt and recline, 3.5" joystick, motors, tires, rims etc.

Make sure you use someone (ot/pt) that's good in writing orders with group 4 chairs, also make sure your DME justifies the upgrades they cant put in enough documentation.

Check with your insurance on line should take 2 weeks tops to get approvals, if something declines it can go to Medicaid for approval

Once its all done you will see each line item approved or denied and then you have the option to pay for those features or remove them

Did a Permobil F3 with upgrades when done it was a F5 with all features 100% funded other then copay

The v6 AT only funding I know is though VA

Make sure you do a demo in a Frontier to make sure its going to work in your environment!


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Re: New chair time.. Wait, not again?

Postby Burgerman » 12 May 2021, 19:52

Unrelated. But curious. That photo looks fake. By which I mean computer generated out of focus background with errors. It doesentlook right. Rather than what I get with a quality nikon lens and wide apeture. Is it?

Looks like a phone pic with algo generated bokeh? Rather than geniune depth of field effect.
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Re: New chair time.. Wait, not again?

Postby Rollin Positive » 12 May 2021, 23:54

No its standard smart phone OnePlus 8

Just did one yesterday with F3 I am selling

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Re: New chair time.. Wait, not again?

Postby Burgerman » 13 May 2021, 00:56

Thats very weird. If you look at the red chairs headrest stem for e.g the top of its mounting stem is in focus. The middle isnt were the trees are. The bottom of it is. So since those are all the same distance from the camera that shouldnt happen... Maybe grease on lens or something.
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